However, one could easily argue that if neither of those companies ever existed, that widespread adoption of SSDs would have actually exploded as opposed to imploded as the bulk of bad SSDs were from those two companies, thus giving all SSDs a somewhat tarnished reputation.
When you really sit back and think about it, is saving $50 or $100 worth:
1) Random loss of data
2) Time lost due to reinstalls
3) Time lost due to troubleshooting and applying firmware, etc...
Each person has to make that decision on their own.
Have you ever looked inside some of those cheap PC's sold at retail outlets? They sure sell a lot of them!
It sometimes works with gpus when they are competitive, but it doesn't work at all with CPUs.
I stopped reading after this part because it was plain you were resorting to strawman tactics. But for the record, nowhere did I say that prices would go down if we removed Indilinx and Sandsforce from the market. However, one could easily argue that if neither of those companies ever existed, that widespread adoption of SSDs would have actually exploded as opposed to imploded as the bulk of bad SSDs were from those two companies, thus giving all SSDs a somewhat tarnished reputation.
When you really sit back and think about it, is saving $50 or $100 worth:
1) Random loss of data
2) Time lost due to reinstalls
3) Time lost due to troubleshooting and applying firmware, etc...
Each person has to make that decision on their own.
Not so sure about that. Look at the enthusiest lineup for the past 5 years from Intel. Have they been extremely high priced? Nope... Core 2 Duo ushered in pure dominance and Intel didn't price their much superior chips higher. The 2500K/2600K still reasonable despite AMD not offering anything great.
When you really sit back and think about it, is saving $50 or $100 worth:
1) Random loss of data
2) Time lost due to reinstalls
3) Time lost due to troubleshooting and applying firmware, etc...
Yes. Backups can be restored to an SSD in minutes. Firmware can be flashed in seconds.
Versus oh hours upon hours upon hours of life wasted watching progress bars and hour glasses and moving gigabytes of small random file data at 900 KB/sec...
It is interesting that he chose to compare the ssd market to the oil market, right? Oil has a huge demand that is likely to grow indefinitely. Nand has pretty good demand, but imft and samsung have a very strong interest in making/selling as much of it as they can. If OCZ went away but solid companies like corsair and crucial stayed in the market, then we could very well get intel/samsung ssd's cheaper as a result. You definitely can't say the same for the oil companies.
doesn't seem to matter what I compare to with some folks. Unreasonable is.. as unreasonable does, I guess.
The GPU and CPU sectors only have two major players and that works out just fine. If we got rid of OCZ (Indilinx) and Sandsforce, prices would still be competitive and SSDs wouldn't be viewed as unreliable. Besides, the majority of what makes an SSD expensive is the NAND, not the controller.
The 2500K/2600K still reasonable despite AMD not offering anything great.
and once again I see the trend from some around here who like to threadcrap just to brand-bash based on very little firsthand knowledge. And panic locking a drive or two of those Sandforce SSD's certainly makes you far from heavily experienced with these things. Especially if you threw in the towel, tucked tail and ran after you had issues instead of sticking with them to learn and work through what's up with the whole mess.
Having tested Sandforce for over 2 years now(from 3 mfgrs), being privy to NDA materials/deeper inside discussion of the current problems with bios(OROMS), Drivers(IME/sata), the actual firmware/hardware testing, and the ACPI tabling issues created with all the mish-mash that's possible these days.. I think I might/maybe/kinda know more than the average guy around here about this stuff.
Except for you of course. Kidding.. I just tease and push buttons a lot. lol
Unless you have an insight into intel business you don't really know what reasonable means. Maybe $100 would be reasonable.
So what would be a reasonable price for Win 7?
You forget Cyrix, Transmeta, and a couple more that I don't really remember! You cant compare a time after the "Race to the Bottom" to the beginning of one.
Remember one more thing, with every one of the now eaten up competitors, some great technology has come forth. Look at what Sandforce did with their compression, everyone would like to have it and Intel didn't invent it. No, it was this little runt of a nobody company that could have been started by guys like all of us.
Hmm so I have 4 x 240GB Patriot Wildfires in RAID0 in my desktop, a 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe in my laptop. Five Sandforce drives, haven't had a single issue with any of them.
Also just picked up a OCZ Agility 3 120GB if only because it was $112 for the drive and included a $15 gift card. Don't know what I'm going to do with it, it was just too good a deal to pass up.
I haven't beta tested any of them, they just work.
So are you suggesting that I should have been happy for paying to be a beta tester?
no, not at all. Not everyone has the time, patience, or even knowledge requirement to get past an issue. I was leaning more towards.. quite harping to everyone else to "do away with OCZ" just because you didn't have any those requirements. You don't seriously believe that hundreds upon hundreds of thousands had problems with that drive do you? Or even millions? lol
I've witnessed FAR more people working through an issue towards resolution, than those who got P'd off and just stomped their feet out of the room swearing to tell everyone about OCZ. They're often not the happiest throughout the troubleshooting process.. but as 1 week turns into 5?.. they eventually pass their return period which forces many to press onwards. but to be fair, most issues are resolved in less than 1 week even with all the posting lag.
Perhaps you do have great knowledge on said issue. But just because you decided to invest your own personal time into some beta testing doesn't mean that I want too. Who knows, maybe you work for Sandsforce or OCZ which is why you keep defending them and propogate the idea that I should pay for the privilege to be their beta tester.
No not if you don't want to.. just don't underestimate the amount of people out there that will gladly own one of the fastest drives made, even at the expense of "time, patience, knowledge". Point is that when you live on the edge of this tech's offering?.. you're of course more likely to take part in some type of bug, update or data issue out of the gate. If you guys don't want to live there.. and willingly trade a slight bit of performance loss with other drives?.. that's great. Enjoy what you want, but don't trash others who may own different drives for whatever reason they see fit.
But from some previous statements you seem to be telling others around here that life would be somehow better without "companies like OCZ". Many of whom have benefited in roundabout fashion from all OCZ fumblings of fixes that may tweak/code that particular issue away(wherever that code fix may come from). Obviously I have a different vantage point and strongly disagree. Plus, having 17 of OCZ's drives(many of which are in R0 arrangements) only goes to show that perspectives can change quite easily depending on what side of the fence you're talking from.
I honestly don't know if you are being serious with this or not. This type of stuff doesn't always go over well on forums. If you are serious, as for pushing my buttons, don't worry, I havn't been offended, upset or angered by any of the posts.
Hmm so I have 4 x 240GB Patriot Wildfires in RAID0 in my desktop, a 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe in my laptop. Five Sandforce drives, haven't had a single issue with any of them.
Also just picked up a OCZ Agility 3 120GB if only because it was $112 for the drive and included a $15 gift card. Don't know what I'm going to do with it, it was just too good a deal to pass up.
I haven't beta tested any of them, they just work.
To be perfectly honest, I am not bothered by anyone using a Sandsforce based drive. I am all about letting people do what they want. Nowhere in this thread did I condemn anyone for using them. If you have had great success, who am I to argue with you?
At this point I think the discussion has runs its course, at least as far as I am concerned.
But when I see an inordinate amount of negative feedback on one company, then I see data (as we saw a few weeks ago) showing that ssd return rates are significantly higher with this company than with others, then I see one person singing that company's praises 24/7 (first defending their old controllers, then extolling the virtues of the new ones), then I start to wonder if that person has an agenda.
This sort of statement from exdeath is very valuable in my opinion.
Speaking of 4 wildfires in RAID 0, exdeath, how do you have them connected?