Any Novell Guru's here?

[Homerboy]

and Im lost.

Our office has a Novell server at its heart (used for employee logins etc) and several seocnadry application servers running win2k.

However the 10 simultaneous user limit in win2k pro is hindering us, so I wanted to map the win2k machine to the Novell server and have all the users then map that Novell drive to their win2k pro clients. But I can seem to figure out how to get Novell to map the shared Win2k dir on the server... any help? Does that even make any sense?

 

[mikecel79]

I'm confused here (not the first time). Are you saying you want your Netware server (Novell is a company not an OS) to "map" a drive from a Win2k Pro machine and then have all your Win2k Pro machines to map the Netware drive instead? You basically want Netware to make a single connection to a Win2k machine and then emulate that drive to your clients. Are you trying to do this to get around the Win2k Pro 10 concurrent connection limit? I'm not sure what your trying to do is possible. What version of Netware are you using?

 

[Homerboy]

yeah sorry NetWare... I was just exchanging the names (incorrectly).

Yes Im basically trying to circumvent the 10 user limit of that win2k Pro box.

We are (trying) to deploy a PC based punchclock for our employees that works on a client/server relationship. Server portion is Windows only. So I had to install one of our office application servers and have the each one of the desktops (win2k) map the drive to Win2k machine with the server application.

However, with an office of ~60 employees that doesnt work as we meet the 10 user limit pretty quick. So I was thinking since everyone logs into the NetWare server, and runs a login script (mappings, pritners etc) why not have the NetWare machine actually map the shared Win2k dir with the server application, then add a that new NetWare drive to everyones login script...

is that possible? feasible?

 

[mikecel79]

Interesting idea but not sure how feasible it is or if it's possible. Never tried it before and our Netware servers are long gone now. Been even longer since I touched one too. I think your best bet is to breakdown and buy Win2k Server. I gather from your post you have no Win2k servers, are you managing 60+ machines without a domain though?

 

[Homerboy]

damn I was hoping you could help
I guess Server maybe the "cure".

Unfortunately, yes we are running 60 machines WITHOUT a domain. Its a joke (something I walked into ~6months ago). The problem stems from the fact that the "backbone" of our office is an archaic database program that runs on NetWare exclusively and has the most screwed up structure and requirements I've ever seen.... ie: each user must have admin rights... thats right. Admin rights. I have 60 "admins"...

ugh

 

[NetWareHead]

You mention a 10 user limit, is this a progrm which must reside on a file share on the win2k box? Or is it an actual program that runs and consumes resources on the win2k box? If it is just a file share, then why not move the program to Netware and use that to share the file/program out?

What version of netware...I know database programs that require admin rights as well but that usually means administrator/supervisor rights to the filesystem and generally not to the entire system. You can be an admin to a certain portion of the filesystem tree and a regular user on the NDS tree.

You know that you don't need a domain to manage your LAN environment? Look up ZENworks on novell.com and anything that you can do with windows active directory can be done on NetWare.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: NetWareHead
You mention a 10 user limit, is this a progrm which must reside on a file share on the win2k box? Or is it an actual program that runs and consumes resources on the win2k box? If it is just a file share, then why not move the program to Netware and use that to share the file/program out?

What version of netware...I know database programs that require admin rights as well but that usually means administrator/supervisor rights to the filesystem and generally not to the entire system. You can be an admin to a certain portion of the filesystem tree and a regular user on the NDS tree.

You know that you don't need a domain to manage your LAN environment? Look up ZENworks on novell.com and anything that you can do with windows active directory can be done on NetWare.

WHOAH! My new best friend! "NetWarehead"
Man... are you gonna be sorry you replied to this. I walked into this cluster F of a network running on NetWare and the guy that previously managed it is of little to no help... You wouldnt be in Wisconsin would you?

The problem with this stupid app is that when you install the app on the client machine it actually runs the .exe off the server... not the local C: Beyond stupid.

Im contemplating just getting a $400 Win2k Server license, upgrading that Win2k machine and letting all 60 people access that shared dir.

 

[Homerboy]

Are there any good NetWare books you would recommend for me to get started in this NW world? Im trying to "dispose" of the previous outsrouced guy that has, from my viewpoint, pretty much just been bandaiding the network as it went along rather than actually FIXING things as he went along. Not to mention I think he has no idea what hes doing either (learning as he goes). He is just getting around to installing client32 on all our machines and is taking FOREVER to do that (and unsuccessfully too for that matter)

I'm fairly well versed in Windows environments, but Novell is a whole new world for me...

ANY direction(s) you can point me to would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[KB]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

The problem with this stupid app is that when you install the app on the client machine it actually runs the .exe off the server... not the local C: Beyond stupid.

Im contemplating just getting a $400 Win2k Server license, upgrading that Win2k machine and letting all 60 people access that shared dir.

Running the EXE off of the server is a very common setup. It allows the developer to update the EXE in one spot instead of 60. Not so stupid as you might think.

Another possibility: Instead of using windows server, you could install linux on a machine and install samba. You would then be able to share out a drive with no user limit. Amazingly Linux samba also performs better in CIFS than windows. This assumes you would have an interest in using linux. If you don't have such an interest then installing Win2K server would be your only option.

 

[NetWareHead]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
Are there any good NetWare books you would recommend for me to get started in this NW world? Im trying to "dispose" of the previous outsrouced guy that has, from my viewpoint, pretty much just been bandaiding the network as it went along rather than actually FIXING things as he went along. Not to mention I think he has no idea what hes doing either (learning as he goes). He is just getting around to installing client32 on all our machines and is taking FOREVER to do that (and unsuccessfully too for that matter)

I'm fairly well versed in Windows environments, but Novell is a whole new world for me...

ANY direction(s) you can point me to would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks again.

ughhh...you're just installing client32 now? So you must be using that garbage-ware CSNW slient supplied by MS. here is a tip: Get your installation of client32 to all workstations done asap. CSNW is purposely crippled by M$ and performance/connectivity is alot worse than real-deal client32. if you are running csnw, then you must also be using IPX...what version of netware are you on? If you are on netware 5 or higher than you can speak to the server using TCP/IP and ditch IPX.

As far as books, walk into any barnes and nobles or border books and head for the computer section. Any books released by Novell press are always very good and thorough. I dont know what version of NW you have, but you probably will only be able to find books on NW 6 and 6.5, the most current version. If you are using NW 4 or 5, then it shouldn't be too hard to read a 6 book apply it to your environment. If you are running netware 3, then you need to look online for help and you should plan an upgrade path to NW 6.5 since 3 has been discontinued and is unsupported, the same will happen with nw 4 this year.

 

[NetWareHead]

Originally posted by: KB

Originally posted by: Homerboy

The problem with this stupid app is that when you install the app on the client machine it actually runs the .exe off the server... not the local C: Beyond stupid.

Im contemplating just getting a $400 Win2k Server license, upgrading that Win2k machine and letting all 60 people access that shared dir.

Running the EXE off of the server is a very common setup. It allows the developer to update the EXE in one spot instead of 60. Not so stupid as you might think.

Another possibility: Instead of using windows server, you could install linux on a machine and install samba. You would then be able to share out a drive with no user limit. Amazingly Linux samba also performs better in CIFS than windows. This assumes you would have an interest in using linux. If you don't have such an interest then installing Win2K server would be your only option.

If the machine runs the .exe file off the file share, then you don't need a windows machine or a Samba/linux box. Your company already paid for its licenses for netware, move the program to a netware directory accesssible to users and have the users run it from there instead.

It sounds like whoever set up your network does not know the full benefits of netware. That windows box is pretty much un-necessary and you would not face the 10 user limit if the program was on netware instead.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: NetWareHead

Originally posted by: KB

Originally posted by: Homerboy

If the machine runs the .exe file off the file share, then you don't need a windows machine or a Samba/linux box. Your company already paid for its licenses for netware, move the program to a netware directory accesssible to users and have the users run it from there instead.

It sounds like whoever set up your network does not know the full benefits of netware. That windows box is pretty much un-necessary and you would not face the 10 user limit if the program was on netware instead.

Now we will all detail exactly how to run a server-hosted .exe Win32 executable file on a Linux or Novell box.

 

[Homerboy]

ughhh...you're just installing client32 now? So you must be using that garbage-ware CSNW slient supplied by MS. here is a tip: Get your installation of client32 to all workstations done asap. CSNW is purposely crippled by M$ and performance/connectivity is alot worse than real-deal client32. if you are running csnw, then you must also be using IPX...what version of netware are you on? If you are on netware 5 or higher than you can speak to the server using TCP/IP and ditch IPX.

As far as books, walk into any barnes and nobles or border books and head for the computer section. Any books released by Novell press are always very good and thorough. I dont know what version of NW you have, but you probably will only be able to find books on NW 6 and 6.5, the most current version. If you are using NW 4 or 5, then it shouldn't be too hard to read a 6 book apply it to your environment. If you are running netware 3, then you need to look online for help and you should plan an upgrade path to NW 6.5 since 3 has been discontinued and is unsupported, the same will happen with nw 4 this year.

well like I said the guy that is/was running and managing this network is a dumb@ass beyond belief. Getting everyone on Client32 has been on the top of my list for the past week or so but there have been a billion other fires that had to be put out first. Regardless, Im ~1/2 there at this point.... question though, in client32 is there some way to run a master login script for everyone and then their subsequent user script? as in older versions of netware (FYI we are running 6.5 thank god).

That was my gameplan on the books, I just was seeing if there were any "beignners" books and intermediate books that you may specifically recommend.

 

[Homerboy]

If the machine runs the .exe file off the file share, then you don't need a windows machine or a Samba/linux box. Your company already paid for its licenses for netware, move the program to a netware directory accesssible to users and have the users run it from there instead.

It sounds like whoever set up your network does not know the full benefits of netware. That windows box is pretty much un-necessary and you would not face the 10 user limit if the program was on netware instead.

The server application itself requires it to be installed on Win32 box (intsalled .dlls, registry entries etc) But the client app itself, when isntalled uses local .dlls, registry entries but the .exe resides in the mapped dir that the server app is installed on. Make sense?

We have a few windows boxes running as "servers" for Terminal Serivces, email and a few other applications such as WinFax and some calendar stuff.

 

[mikecel79]

well like I said the guy that is/was running and managing this network is a dumb@ass beyond belief. Getting everyone on Client32 has been on the top of my list for the past week or so but there have been a billion other fires that had to be put out first. Regardless, Im ~1/2 there at this point.... question though, in client32 is there some way to run a master login script for everyone and then their subsequent user script? as in older versions of netware (FYI we are running 6.5 thank god).

That was my gameplan on the books, I just was seeing if there were any "beignners" books and intermediate books that you may specifically recommend.

I thought Netware 6 and up no longer needed the Netware client. I remember that being selling point of Netware 6.

 

[Homerboy]

crap crap and more crap

I added the command "net use X: \\server\share /user:server\Dan <dan's pass>" to each users login script. using the 1 the one login/pass I set on the win2k server machine I created to access that shared dir.

The only problem is MS's "net use" sucks.
Becuase it retains that "net use" even after you reboot so before the client32 script it actually run, it tries to map that dirve (becuase it was added on the previous startup). And it errors out becuase it doesnt enter the server's username and pass it uses the employees user name and pass. Make sense?

The other crappy thing is that becuase its a net use it "disconnect" if not in use. So if they go to my computer (or any dropdown menu to navigate their HD and maps) it will freeze for 10-15secs while it reconnects to the "X" drive. That make sense?

This is NOT working out well for me.

 

[NetWareHead]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

ughhh...you're just installing client32 now? So you must be using that garbage-ware CSNW slient supplied by MS. here is a tip: Get your installation of client32 to all workstations done asap. CSNW is purposely crippled by M$ and performance/connectivity is alot worse than real-deal client32. if you are running csnw, then you must also be using IPX...what version of netware are you on? If you are on netware 5 or higher than you can speak to the server using TCP/IP and ditch IPX.

As far as books, walk into any barnes and nobles or border books and head for the computer section. Any books released by Novell press are always very good and thorough. I dont know what version of NW you have, but you probably will only be able to find books on NW 6 and 6.5, the most current version. If you are using NW 4 or 5, then it shouldn't be too hard to read a 6 book apply it to your environment. If you are running netware 3, then you need to look online for help and you should plan an upgrade path to NW 6.5 since 3 has been discontinued and is unsupported, the same will happen with nw 4 this year.

well like I said the guy that is/was running and managing this network is a dumb@ass beyond belief. Getting everyone on Client32 has been on the top of my list for the past week or so but there have been a billion other fires that had to be put out first. Regardless, Im ~1/2 there at this point.... question though, in client32 is there some way to run a master login script for everyone and then their subsequent user script? as in older versions of netware (FYI we are running 6.5 thank god).

That was my gameplan on the books, I just was seeing if there were any "beignners" books and intermediate books that you may specifically recommend.

Login scripts are stroed in eDirectory and are processed by client32. Users pull their login scripts from 4 places:

Container sets the general environments for all users in that container. Container login scripts are executed first and can be associated with Organization or Organizational Unit objects. A user can use only one container login script.

NOTE: A container login script replaces the system login script from NetWare® 3.

Profile sets environments for several users at the same time. Profile login scripts are executed after the container login script and are associated with Profile objects. A user can be assigned only one profile login script but can choose other profile login scripts.

User sets environments (such as printing options or an e-mail username) specific to a single user. User login scripts are executed after any container and profile login scripts and are associated with User objects. A user can have only one user login script.

Default contains only essential commands, such as drive mappings to NetWare utilities, and cannot be edited. The default login script runs if a user (including user Admin) doesn't have a user login script, even if a container or profile login script exists.


Check here for more details Text

I don't exactly know your environment, but if you were using CSNW, you are using IPX and queue based printing, you should look into migrating over to TCP/IP and NDPS printing. Read the netware books to see if these are compatible with your applications etc...

 

[NetWareHead]

Originally posted by: mikecel79

well like I said the guy that is/was running and managing this network is a dumb@ass beyond belief. Getting everyone on Client32 has been on the top of my list for the past week or so but there have been a billion other fires that had to be put out first. Regardless, Im ~1/2 there at this point.... question though, in client32 is there some way to run a master login script for everyone and then their subsequent user script? as in older versions of netware (FYI we are running 6.5 thank god).

That was my gameplan on the books, I just was seeing if there were any "beignners" books and intermediate books that you may specifically recommend.

I thought Netware 6 and up no longer needed the Netware client. I remember that being selling point of Netware 6.

NetWare now speaks SMB/CIFS, NFS and Appletalk so you may connect to a server using any of those means. Client32 is still the best method IMO

 

[Homerboy]

rather than the "net use" is there anyway to use NW's "map" command to get that Win32 share to connect?

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
crap crap and more crap

I added the command "net use X: \\server\share /user:server\Dan <dan's pass>" to each users login script. using the 1 the one login/pass I set on the win2k server machine I created to access that shared dir.

The only problem is MS's "net use" sucks.
Becuase it retains that "net use" even after you reboot so before the client32 script it actually run, it tries to map that dirve (becuase it was added on the previous startup). And it errors out becuase it doesnt enter the server's username and pass it uses the employees user name and pass. Make sense?

The other crappy thing is that becuase its a net use it "disconnect" if not in use. So if they go to my computer (or any dropdown menu to navigate their HD and maps) it will freeze for 10-15secs while it reconnects to the "X" drive. That make sense?

This is NOT working out well for me.

net use X: \\server\share /user:server\Dan <dan's pass> /persistent:no

is what you're looking for.

This only works on Win2k/XP clients though.

 

[Homerboy]

tried that for the reboot issue... but it doesnt help in the "hanging" when accessing the drive tree.

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
tried that for the reboot issue... but it doesnt help in the "hanging" when accessing the drive tree.

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Networking/WinNT_Networking/Q_21020205.html

That holds the answer to fixing the time-out by default behavior for non-domain mapped drives.

 

[mikecel79]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
tried that for the reboot issue... but it doesnt help in the "hanging" when accessing the drive tree.

When we used Netware I found that the Netware client (whatever the latest version was at the time 2 years ago) caused browsing of Win2k shares to be extremely slow. However browsing a Netware drive was very fast. Once we removed the Novell client this problem went away. I never bothered to look into why this was happening since we were dumping Netware at the time.

I don't think it's the red X that is causing the problem. Win2k disconnects itself from the share when it's not active. My Win2k clients display that all the time, but simply clicking the drive brings is alive in under a seccond. Can you try a machine without the Netware client and see if it does this?

 

[Homerboy]

all good help and suggestions guys
thanks Ill keep ya updated... but as always more pressing stuff has arisen.
I wish I could sit in my chair for even a half a day.

 

[dclive]

My suggestion is to go fully legal - Small Biz Server 2003 is cheap and handles up to 75 clients; grab that and check it out.