Any other vegans here?

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Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
I'm weak. Vegetarian (16.5 years now) but not a vegan. Not sure I have the willpower to do it.

I don't blame you, and that's way longer than I've been a vegan. Frankly, it's harder to avoid cheese and milk products than it is to avoid meat. Milk and whey are in way more products than people realize. And cheese still smells so damn enticing, especially pizza... I resist, but aromatic fromage hits the receptors hard. I still make pizza (well, technically not pizza, but whatever) and other recipes that require cheesiness using nutritional yeast, cashew "cheese", and other substitutes (e.g. Daiya), but they aren't quite the same, though still can be delicious.

I don't ever plan on "quitting" veganism, but if I ever do it will because I've been kidnapped and reprogrammed by the dairy lobby.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136

My own possible vegan agenda aside, I think they are one of the best case studies in marketing. The tobacco industry (and no, I'm not equating the two, though unintentionally associating them here) had nothing on dairy.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
Sorry if this has been posted already but meat is friggen great! If burgers and steaks take 5 years off my life it's a sacrifice that I'm quite willing to make.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
among my top 5 personal decisions in life, which also included joining anandtech, and learning to stay out of P&N ;-)

Stumbled upon it when i got into cycling and was looking for techniques to go longer, faster, and harder...found this crazy australian who was giving cycling tips and would occasionally drop a half second reference to plant based foods...I was eventually stunned to learn he was a vegan (took a few weeks of watching his cycling videos, that is how dense i was) because he literally killed it on the bicycle. It was my first exposure that vegans were not weaklings, which is what i assumed my whole life, and that it was a diet on which a person could _thrive_. That eventually lead to discovering dr michael gregor and nutrition facts, and the research/books of mcdougal, ornish, esselytn, powell, barnard. 4 months later, I was done watching videos, and ready to go cold turkey...its been 3 years as of march 2017 and I couldn't be any happier.
 
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lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,653
7,882
126
I don't blame you, and that's way longer than I've been a vegan. Frankly, it's harder to avoid cheese and milk products than it is to avoid meat. Milk and whey are in way more products than people realize. And cheese still smells so damn enticing, especially pizza... I resist, but aromatic fromage hits the receptors hard. I still make pizza (well, technically not pizza, but whatever) and other recipes that require cheesiness using nutritional yeast, cashew "cheese", and other substitutes (e.g. Daiya), but they aren't quite the same, though still can be delicious.

I don't ever plan on "quitting" veganism, but if I ever do it will because I've been kidnapped and reprogrammed by the dairy lobby.
I used to be vegetarian, and still eat less meat than average, but giving up dairy is a big FUCK NO! Cheese is my favorite class of food. Add in yogurt, butter, and ice cream, and I just as soon be dead as lose them.

Take the burgers, pit beef, and spam. You can even take the bacon, but if you try to take my cheddar, you'll be pulling back a bloody stump.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,657
4,130
136
Wife and i been doing vegan for about 2 months now for health reasons from same video mentioned earlier. But since were not doing it for animal reasons weve considered dropping down to vegetarian instead. Or say F it and screw health and the last 5 years and take up yummy meat again lol
 
Reactions: Crono

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
For me it was a fairly immediate impact in energy level, weight loss, and... bowel health (all that fiber...I wish someone told me to introduce the higher fiber vegetables, legumes, and fruit into my diet slowly ). Longer term I found it helped with my asthma (never use an inhaler now, though regular excercise also helped with that) and with reducing frequency and intensity of migraines (though I also tend to avoid my trigger, anyway).

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Okay, you made a decision to pay attention to your diet, started eating better and healthier and gained a benefit. Almost anyone would if they previously subsisted entirely on fast food, Hot Pockets and vending machine snacks. Why do you subscribe to the fallacy that it's eating vegan that got you some noticeable benefits rather than simply the fact that you're eating better? Take the average person that pays absolutely no attention to their diet and just make minor changes and they're probably going to feel better. Keep eating meat, just replace the afternoon snack of potato chips with an apple, have a salad instead of fried mozzarella sticks once a week, have a steak, a few fries and some cabbage and beans instead of a steak and a quadruple order of fries and most people would see the same boost in energy level, weight loss and bowel regularity that you're getting.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Okay, you made a decision to pay attention to your diet, started eating better and healthier and gained a benefit. Almost anyone would if they previously subsisted entirely on fast food, Hot Pockets and vending machine snacks. Why do you subscribe to the fallacy that it's eating vegan that got you some noticeable benefits rather than simply the fact that you're eating better? Take the average person that pays absolutely no attention to their diet and just make minor changes and they're probably going to feel better. Keep eating meat, just replace the afternoon snack of potato chips with an apple, have a salad instead of fried mozzarella sticks once a week, have a steak, a few fries and some cabbage and beans instead of a steak and a quadruple order of fries and most people would see the same boost in energy level, weight loss and bowel regularity that you're getting.

Before you throw out logical fallacies, keep in mind I was paying attention to nutrition for years before I became a vegan, had already made simple substitutions (whole grain bread instead of white, a moderate amount of fruits and vegetables consumed, etc) but while still consuming meat and dairy. I already mentioned that balanced diets that include meat can be healthy, so I don't know why you immediately went to the defensive here... probably a good thing to be skeptical, but context matters.

Regardless, I'm not trying to convince anyone veganism is some wondrous thing, and there are plenty of studies and research on various diets if you care one way or another.

I'm sure those few simple substitutions can make a difference for some people whose diet is nutritionally poor, and maybe there's research to support that, but from what I've seen it takes more than that to get to good health. Hypertension and diabetes run in my family on both sides, which is one reason that motivated me to go vegan.

My parents never ate a lot of sugar or carbs in general (neither is overweight) and their diet for most of their lives has been traditional Indian food. Even coming to the U.S. they never ate much fast food. My dad also has high cholesterol in addition to hypertension and type II diabetes, and takes numerous medications to control it. Similar situation for many members in my extended family. My brother, who's 7 years younger than me and was always healthier than I was before becoming a vegan, now has elevated blood sugar levels and blood pressure for his age, as well as a bunch of other issues that have developed over a couple of years (weight gain, allergies, asthma, back pain).

All that might be anecdotal, but I really don't care about convincing anyone else. A vegan diet works for me.
 
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Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
Vegan posts thread announcing they are vegan.

Shocking

Oh look, someone regurgitating a stereotype on the internet, even more shocking It's okay, no one is coming over there to take away your meat (yet - that's scheduled for 2025 )

Joking aside, there's about a million threads on everything but veganism, and I've waited about 5 years to make a thread on it so... yeah. Come up with better memes, at least.
 
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Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
Wife and i been doing vegan for about 2 months now for health reasons from same video mentioned earlier. But since were not doing it for animal reasons weve considered dropping down to vegetarian instead. Or say F it and screw health and the last 5 years and take up yummy meat again lol

I'm not an ethical vegan, either, but factory farming practices bother me, and I don't think they make for good tasting dairy or meat products, either. It tends to be bad for those who work in those situations, as well as creating ideal places for diseases to pop up and spread among the animals, necessitating the use of antibiotics that are increasingly becoming less and less effective.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Before you throw out logical fallacies, keep in mind I was paying attention to nutrition for years before I became a vegan, had already made simple substitutions (whole grain bread instead of white, a moderate amount of fruits and vegetables consumed, etc) but while still consuming meat and dairy. I already mentioned that balanced diets that include meat can be healthy, so I don't know why you immediately went to the defensive here... probably a good thing to be skeptical, but context matters.

I think you really need to look up the definition of defensive. And you also might want to look up confirmation bias while you're at it. Simple dietary changes can lead to good results. Eating slightly healthier, eating slightly less, cutting out a small percentage of junk can make anyone feel better. VERY VERY VERY few people have any sort of physiological conditions that mandate vegan-ism or would lead to veganism in and of itself being a reason for feeling better. There's no evidence to suggest or support the fallacy that vegan is healthier than a good balanced diet, none to support the idea that it leads to energy gains, none to support that it leads to weight loss and none to support that it leads to improved bowel function. You made a drastic change and your body changed, but you're ascribing the benefit to what you want to be true rather than other factors that could also be true.

If a circus performer stops eating glass as part of his act and starts eating more veggies at the same time it would be a fallacy to believe that it's the veggies that are responsible for his noticeably reduced rectal bleeding. You feeling better, or believing you feel better, after a major dietary change doesn't really prove that the dietary change was necessary or even responsible for the change.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,501
136
I think you really need to look up the definition of defensive. And you also might want to look up confirmation bias while you're at it. Simple dietary changes can lead to good results. Eating slightly healthier, eating slightly less, cutting out a small percentage of junk can make anyone feel better. VERY VERY VERY few people have any sort of physiological conditions that mandate vegan-ism or would lead to veganism being a reason for feeling better. There's no evidence to suggest or support the fallacy that vegan is healthier than a good balanced diet, none to support the idea that it leads to energy gains, none to support that it leads to weight loss and none to support that it leads to improved bowel function. You made a drastic change and your body changed, but you're ascribing the benefit to what you want to be true rather than other factors that could also be true.

If a circus performer stops eating glass as part of his act and starts eating more veggies at the same time it would be a fallacy to believe that it's the veggies that are responsible for his noticeably reduced rectal bleeding. You feeling better, or believing you feel better, after a major dietary change doesn't really prove that the dietary change was necessary or even responsible for the change.

Define "good balanced diet". Then I can post the actual studies for you to pick apart.

Other than that, I'm not interested in a debate, just discussion. Also, it's not "confirmation bias" if one begins from a position of healthy skepticism. I wasn't expecting a vegan diet to make significant changes to my health. Was I hoping for it? Sure, but that's not confirmation bias. The moderate changes you suggest work didn't do anything for me, though I expected they would.

I say you are on the defensive because you keep making assumptions, while treating this like a formal debate, yet citing no scientific evidence yourself. It's not a formal debate, but fine, if you want to win and be crowned master debator, fine, I acknowledge thee thusly and admit defeat.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,282
3,904
75
Not a vegan here, but I make vegan spaghetti, with fake meat, because I got sick of bones and gristle showing up in my ground beef. Then I shake parmesan cheese all over it.
 
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