Any versions of Linux out there that resemble OS X?

vtohthree

Senior member
Apr 18, 2005
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Hey I'm new to the linux scene, I've been watching closely for a while but now I think I'm finally going to pull the trigger and try it out.

Anyways, I wanted to know if any versions of linux out there resembled MAC OS X, the layout and appearance of it at least, and also...

quick noob question, what is i586 architecture? I wanted to try and get a 64bit version of linux, finally see what my AMD can do with it.

thanks.
 

ProviaFan

Lifer
Mar 17, 2001
14,993
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No Linux distributions will "resemble" OS X in the sense of being very polished, well integrated, and quite as easy to use. However, if you get one of the distros with XGL, such as Kororaa (sp?), you will get some rather nice graphical goodness that might be on the order of what you're looking for.
 

halfadder

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2004
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Newer versions of KDE are looking more and more Macish.

Check out SuSE 10.0, it has the newest version of KDE.
 

halfadder

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2004
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i586 is original Pentium (early 1993 and newer)
i686 is PentiumPro/PentiumII/pretty much all newer 32-bit x86

If you want 64-bit you'll have to look for specific 64-bit support. You might be best off with the AMD64 version of Sun Solaris 10. It's Unix, but not Linux. Very polished, free, opensource. Or Nevada, which is the alpha-ish early releases of what will eventually be Solaris 11. Sun sells many severs that use AMD64 based CPUs (Opteron, Athlon64)
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Anyways, I wanted to know if any versions of linux out there resembled MAC OS X, the layout and appearance of it at least, and also...

All of the major desktops have themes that look like OS X, they're just not installed by default AFAIK.

No Linux distributions will "resemble" OS X in the sense of being very polished, well integrated, and quite as easy to use.

Apparently not everyone agrees with you.

You might be best off with the AMD64 version of Sun Solaris 10. It's Unix, but not Linux. Very polished, free, opensource. Or Nevada, which is the alpha-ish early releases of what will eventually be Solaris 11. Sun sells many severs that use AMD64 based CPUs (Opteron, Athlon64)

I can't imagine how anyone could recommend Solaris for a desktop with a straight face...
 

halfadder

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2004
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Solaris 10 has a nice polished GNOME interface, of course they call it the "Java Desktop 3.0". Nevada (public, opensource, will eventually be Solaris 11) has newer builds of GNOME with more bells and whistles.

If I was doing Oracle development on a powerful desktop machine, my choice would be Solaris 10 for AMD64.

But then, what do I know, I use Blackbox as my window manager / desktop environment.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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But really, how many people are doing Oracle development on personal machines?
 

vtohthree

Senior member
Apr 18, 2005
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I see, I suppose I will give it a try, yeah I already have an XP theme on one of my desktops, pretty weak though(just changes the scroll bar look and "maximize"/minimize/X buttons). Something I like about MAC OS in general is the clean look, the short cuts that enlarge when hovered over, etc.

Thanks for the responses. Looks like two votes for XGL. I did see pclinuxos too, looks pretty nice.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: vtohthree
Hey I'm new to the linux scene, I've been watching closely for a while but now I think I'm finally going to pull the trigger and try it out.

Anyways, I wanted to know if any versions of linux out there resembled MAC OS X, the layout and appearance of it at least, and also...

I don't know, but modding other Linuxes isn't too hard.

quick noob question, what is i586 architecture? I wanted to try and get a 64bit version of linux, finally see what my AMD can do with it.

(See Nothinman's comment below regarding ix86.) 64-bit is EM64T (Pentium 64-bit), AMD64 (A64/Opteron), and IA64 (Itanium). I think x86_64 works on both the Pentium 64-bit and Athlon 64-bit OSes.

On this machine alone I've used Fedora Core (32), Fedora Core (64), OpenSUSE Linux 10.0 (64), Debian Linux (32), and Mandriva Linux 2006 (64). I've liked OpenSUSE Linux 10.0 x86_64 the best. While I had fun with the other ones, I decided on OpenSUSE Linux for eye-candy, features, and ease of use, although Debian bested it in performance. I have tried Ubuntu over VNC to a friend's PC, and it was just as nightmarish as some of the hardest IMO. But that is just my experience, and that will vary widely with hardware. A newbie (ok, sort of) myself, SUSE just seems the most polished, by far, and things just 'work'.

Plus it seems the easiest to use and I've gotten the XGL effects to make it like OS X's. 32-bit Linux programs can be run with the 'linux32' command, much like the WoW64 subsystem in XP64.

Actually some people have already done the Mac OS X/gnome combo: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6223/1/
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=13548
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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i586 (Intel P3 and above? not sure) refers to 32-bit. 64-bit is EM64T (Pentium 64-bit), AMD64 (A64/Opteron), and IA64 (Itanium). I think x86_64 works on both the Pentium 64-bit and Athlon 64-bit OSes.

i586 is the original Pentium and above, i686 is Pentium Pro and above.

EM64T is just Intel's version of AMD64, you need to make sure you're either using an x86 32-bit or AMD64 64-bit distro on those CPUs.

IA64 is a completely seperate beast and requires a distribution compiled for IA64.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: vtohthree
I see, I suppose I will give it a try, yeah I already have an XP theme on one of my desktops, pretty weak though(just changes the scroll bar look and "maximize"/minimize/X buttons). Something I like about MAC OS in general is the clean look, the short cuts that enlarge when hovered over, etc.

Thanks for the responses. Looks like two votes for XGL. I did see pclinuxos too, looks pretty nice.

XGL is a beast right now. It's not easy to install, it's not going to be easy to use. It's a alternative environment... It'll change a lot of things and probably break some stuff.

Were as your looking for themes.



The unique feature of the OS X desktop is how it handles virtual desktops or whatever people call them. It took me a while to figure out what exactly is different, but in Aqua each application has their own 'plane'. Were you open up Firefox it will have it's own virtual desktop were then each window you open up remains bunched together. When you click on one window it brings them all forward. This is why MacOS needs to only have one window bar for all windows. It just switches to which virtual desktop you've selected.

The most apparent, to me at least, is when your using Photoshop in OS X vs. Photoshop in Windows or Gimp in Linux.

Photoshop's UI was originally designed in MacOS and it shows. Each toolbar or dialog is tied to your window your working on. With Windows they tried to replicate this by putting all the small windows in one big window. This sort of emulates how the OS X desktop works. With Gimp in Linux (or on Windows) each little dialog, image, and the toolbar is it's own window and will get mixed up with all the other windows you have open.

Of course with Linux you just stick everything on it's own virtual desktop manually by application or task, but with Windows this makes using the Gimp almost unbearable when you have lots of other applications open.

Your not going to find anything that will replicate that for Linux. With XGL it should be technically possible, but I don't know if anybody will actually do that.

Now if you want to have the look of OS X without the feel then there are LOTS AND LOTS of themes out there.

Such as..
Application theme for gnome.
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=13548
Icon theme for gnome.
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=31618

Here is a article on Gnome..
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6223/1/

There is all sorts of stuff like that for both KDE and Gnome. Just make sure that your looking for something relatively new. Stuff that has been updated in the past year or so.

 

avocade

Junior Member
Mar 9, 2006
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XGL looks nice. No need to bastardize either linux or windows to look like Mac OS X, because they'll never look as good. They are too fundamentally different in the underlying "machinery".
 

Brazen

Diamond Member
Jul 14, 2000
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google around for "gnome mac" or "gnome mac theme" and you'll find a ton of articles on converting the gnome desktop to look and act like a Mac. All distros can run Gnome, but stick with either a Redhat or Debian based distro. I suggest Fedora.
 

thesix

Member
Jan 23, 2001
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I can't imagine how anyone could recommend Solaris for a desktop with a straight face...

What?
How many years have people been recommending Linux as desktop with a straight face? 10?
Every year of the last 5 years was "the year of desktop Linux", remember? ;-)

Seriously, I don't think Solaris is ready for average joe's desktop, but neither is Linux, which is only a little better because there're lots of companies/people integrate the latest gnome/kde into their distributions in a timely fashion, plus Linux supports more desktop devices.

As a matter of fact, gnome and kde run on Solaris, Xorg runs on Solairs, native Nvidia driver is now on Solaris, most common desktop hardwares now work flawless on Solaris .... oh yes, XGL wil be running on Solaris.

It's just Sun has been conservative and slow when it comes to integrating the latest desktop/window_manager softwares into Solaris.

Two other major disadvantages as desktop:
1. CD/DVD install and online-update (was never a priority until recently)
2. User base (free and opensource for only one year)

You just need to look at Nexenta OS and KDE for Solaris too see how far the desktop can be pushed on top of Solaris.

 

vtohthree

Senior member
Apr 18, 2005
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thanks again everyone, i've tried out knoppix and pclinuxos so far...going to try more and try this "gnome" too, try to make it masked with the mac look, etc.

So far, I'm liking it, linux is great stuff, has certainly come a loong way.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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How many years have people been recommending Linux as desktop with a straight face? 10?
Every year of the last 5 years was "the year of desktop Linux", remember? ;-)

And every year for the past 5 or so people have been saying the Pirates are going to have a .500 or better season, it's called optimism. =)

Seriously, I don't think Solaris is ready for average joe's desktop, but neither is Linux, which is only a little better because there're lots of companies/people integrate the latest gnome/kde into their distributions in a timely fashion, plus Linux supports more desktop devices.

IMO Linux is just as ready as Windows. If you gave an idiot user both install CDs and a blank machine, chances are they'd have a more functional Linux desktop quicker because the install is simpler and there's more software included. With Windows they'd have to spend a ton of time downloading extra software, trying to find drivers, etc. Yes, both cases will have annoying hurdles that need to be worked out but on the Linux side they'll be minor things like "How do I play a DVD?" and on the Windows side they'll be more difficult things like "How do I download drivers for my NIC if I can't use the Internet?". If a competent user setup the machine for that idiot user with either OS, it would be just as usable.

You just need to look at Nexenta OS and KDE for Solaris too see how far the desktop can be pushed on top of Solaris.

I know technically it's possible, but as of right now Nextenta is illegal. OpenSolaris' libc is licensed under the CDDL so they aren't allowed to distribute GPL'd software linked against it and that includes some very core software that they're using like dpkg.
 

thesix

Member
Jan 23, 2001
133
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
How many years have people been recommending Linux as desktop with a straight face? 10?
Every year of the last 5 years was "the year of desktop Linux", remember? ;-)

And every year for the past 5 or so people have been saying the Pirates are going to have a .500 or better season, it's called optimism. =)

Sure, I am playing optimism here for Solaris, but only because your earlier statement.

IMO Linux is just as ready as Windows ... If a competent user setup the machine for that idiot user with either OS, it would be just as usable.

No need to repeat here, I see this same comment at least 10 times a day on all these computer related forums.
It's only true to some extent. But let me just say we have different standard or tolerance on usability, at least there's a difference between usable and enjoyable.
It would be a PITA if I have to reinstall XP (first release) on my box again, compared to the latest Ubuntu for example, but I haven't had to reinstall for two years now.
Once pass the install/patching phase, XP is still much more useful than Ubuntu for me as a desktop, given all the nice applications that run on Windows, not even close.

I know technically it's possible, but as of right now Nextenta is illegal. OpenSolaris' libc is licensed under the CDDL so they aren't allowed to distribute GPL'd software linked against it and that includes some very core software that they're using like dpkg.

As of right now Nexenta has not been proved to be illegal.
There're enough discussions on the web. I think we've been through this before on this forum.
All the essential links are in the first page of google search.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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Sure, I am playing optimism here for Solaris, but only because your earlier statement.

But why do you care? We already have free OSes under better licenses without some controlling corporate entity behind them, why would anyone want to take a step backwards and start pushing Solaris?

But let me just say we have different standard or tolerance on usability, at least there's a difference between usable and enjoyable.

Yes, and for me Windows is just above tolerable and Linux is enjoyable.

Once pass the install/patching phase, XP is still much more useful than Ubuntu for me as a desktop, given all the nice applications that run on Windows, not even close.

Not true. Unless you're including all of your 3rd party apps in the 'install/patching phase' of Windows. And IMO most applications for Windows are far from nice, infact most are quite annoying.

As of right now Nexenta has not been proved to be illegal.

It hasn't been contested in court, but it's definitely true. You can't link a GPL'd program against a more restrictive license and distribute them together and the CDDL is more restrictive than the GPL. That type of conflict is the whole reason the LGPL was created. Sadly Sun and the Nextena people are taking the "ignore it and maybe it'll go away" approach.
 

thesix

Member
Jan 23, 2001
133
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
But why do you care? We already have free OSes under better licenses without some controlling corporate entity behind them, why would anyone want to take a step backwards and start pushing Solaris?

1. I like Solaris better than Linux.
2. It delivers excellent value as a development OS and production OS.
3. The CDDL lience is a very fair license.
4. I see Sun as the biggest contributer of OpenSolaris rather than a controller from your point of view.

But let me just say we have different standard or tolerance on usability, at least there's a difference between usable and enjoyable.

Yes, and for me Windows is just above tolerable and Linux is enjoyable.

That's fine, there're plenty of people in both camps.

Once pass the install/patching phase, XP is still much more useful than Ubuntu for me as a desktop, given all the nice applications that run on Windows, not even close.

Not true. Unless you're including all of your 3rd party apps in the 'install/patching phase' of Windows. And IMO most applications for Windows are far from nice, infact most are quite annoying.

Of course I am including all the 3rd party apps. Why shouldn't I?
We're talking about Windows the platform, not Microsoft the company, although Microsoft alone provides quite many applications, including all the development tools, office tools and media tools.

And who cares about 99% of the windows softwares that we do not use?
It's the best ones that matter, the winners of competitions got my money.
People do pay for the softwares they like, which is a healthy economy.


It hasn't been contested in court, but it's definitely true. You can't link a GPL'd program against a more restrictive license and distribute them together and the CDDL is more restrictive than the GPL. That type of conflict is the whole reason the LGPL was created.

Interesting, you keep saying CDDL is more restrictive.
Isn't LGPL used as a _less restrictive_ license than GPL so that projects can get along with other _more liberal_ licenses?

Sadly Sun and the Nextena people are taking the "ignore it and maybe it'll go away" approach.

That's bullshit.
First, Sun has nothing to do with Nexenta project, they don't "endorse" the project one way or the other, which is diffferent from Sun empolyees, as members of OpenSolaris community, praising the effort of Nexenta.

Then, if you haven't read Ian Murdock's thought on this matter (which is in the google page I gave to you), let me quote them here, because it's the pefect answer to your assertion on Nexenta:

From Ian's blog
In terms of the actual issue being discussed here, am I the only one who doesn?t get it? It seems to me the argument that linking a GPL application to a CDDL library and asserting that that somehow makes the library a derivative work of the application is, to say the least, a stretch?not to mention the fact that we?re talking about libc here, a library with a highly standard interface that?s been implemented any number of times and, heck, that?s even older than the GPL itself. It?s interpretations like this, folks, that give the GPL its reputation of being viral, and I know how much Richard Stallman hates that word. It?s one thing to ensure that actual derivative works of GPL code are themselves licensed under similar terms; it?s quite another to try to apply the same argument to code that clearly isn?t a derivative work in an attempt to spread free software at any cost. I?ve been a big GPL advocate for a long time, but that just strikes me as wrong.


 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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1. I like Solaris better than Linux.
2. It delivers excellent value as a development OS and production OS.
3. The CDDL lience is a very fair license.
4. I see Sun as the biggest contributer of OpenSolaris rather than a controller from your point of view.

All of the first 3 could be said about any OS and license given the right person. As for the 4th, is there a seperate entity doing all of the code management of OpenSolaris or is it Sun?

Of course I am including all the 3rd party apps. Why shouldn't I?

Because then it's not true unless you have some very specific program that only runs on Windows, I can't think of anything that Windows can do that Ubuntu can't in a personal desktop scenario.

nteresting, you keep saying CDDL is more restrictive.
Isn't LGPL used as a _less restrictive_ license than GPL so that projects can get along with other _more liberal_ licenses?

Yes, the LGPL is less restrictive in that it allows non-GPL'd apps to link against a program under the LGPL. That's why the GNU libc is LGPL, because otherwise it would be illegal to link non-GPL'd software against it and you wouldn't get very far without being able to link against libc.

That's bullshit.
First, Sun has nothing to do with Nexenta project, they don't "endorse" the project one way or the other, which is diffferent from Sun empolyees, as members of OpenSolaris community, praising the effort of Nexenta.

Sorry, I shouldn't have grouped Sun and Nextenta together. But it was Sun's decision to release their libc under the CDDL and when contacted about it they refused to change it. So either they know there's a problem and they don't care or they don't believe the licenses conflict. I can't imagine it's the former, at least intentionally. So it pretty much has to be the latter, and if that's true then someone needs to work with them and have both sides come to a conclusion, either they're compatible or they're not. But that probably won't happen until there's no other choice.

Then, if you haven't read Ian Murdock's thought on this matter (which is in the google page I gave to you), let me quote them here, because it's the pefect answer to your assertion on Nexenta:

Just because Ian feels that way doesn't mean that's the way the GPL will be legally interpreted. Personally I think a Debian GNU/OpenSolaris distribution would be cool, but if the licenses conflict there's nothing I can do about that. Debian is supposed to be about choice and being able to choose between kernels on your Debian system would be cool, being able to do it at install time would be even cooler but I don't know if that'll ever happen. But one thing that stands out to me is that so far all of the non-Linux Debian ports have used glibc, I guess it's less work to make glibc run on FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc than it is to make sure all of the Debian packages work on those different libcs, so why don't the Nextenta people do the same thing?
 

thesix

Member
Jan 23, 2001
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
As for the 4th, is there a seperate entity doing all of the code management of OpenSolaris or is it Sun?

Sun developers are doing all the code management.
The plan is by the end of this year, a distributed SCM (a committee has chosen Mercurial) will be deployed in the open to replace Sun's internel SCM.
Or are you asking about independent governing board?

But it was Sun's decision to release their libc under the CDDL and when contacted about it they refused to change it.

I suppose changing the license for libc is no small deal.
Just because Nexenta has a problem, you can't expect Sun takes all the trouble re-licensing libc for them. Keep in mind Nexenta at least hasn't violated CDDL, and Sun itself does nothing like what Nexenta is doing.

Sun has never closed the door to refine CDDL or even dual-license OpenSolaris.
They have joined the discussion of GPL v3, even said consider dual-licensing OpenSolaris under GPL v3 if it removes certain restrictions in v2.

On ther other hand, it looks like Linux will not adopt GPL v3, but it's too early to speculate.

So either they know there's a problem and they don't care or they don't believe the licenses conflict. I can't imagine it's the former, at least intentionally. So it pretty much has to be the latter, and if that's true then someone needs to work with them and have both sides come to a conclusion, either they're compatible or they're not. But that probably won't happen until there's no other choice.

There're evidence that Sun's opensource office has discussed with FSF on this particular issue.

From Simon's blog comment
Eben made it very clear indeed that he does not regard the issues that are being raised over Nexenta to be any kind of a problem even under GPL v2, but he's clarified the operating system extension and aggregation language to make that obvious.

Posted by Simon Phipps on January 16, 2006 at 01:18 PM PST
Website: http://www.webmink.net/ #

I think he refered to this Eben.

Just because Ian feels that way doesn't mean that's the way the GPL will be legally interpreted. Personally I think a Debian GNU/OpenSolaris distribution would be cool, but if the licenses conflict there's nothing I can do about that.

Indeed. However if FSF doesn't take Nexenta to court, probably nobody will (but who knows), especially when Eben, the General Counsel of FSF, sees it as a non-issue.

Debian is supposed to be about choice and being able to choose between kernels on your Debian system would be cool, being able to do it at install time would be even cooler but I don't know if that'll ever happen.

The goal is Free and Choice, isn't it.

But one thing that stands out to me is that so far all of the non-Linux Debian ports have used glibc, I guess it's less work to make glibc run on FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc than it is to make sure all of the Debian packages work on those different libcs, so why don't the Nextenta people do the same thing?

I don't know.
I remember there were lengthy discussions at OpenSolaris on how to adopt the best packaging systems to Solaris, porting glibc or dual-licensing Sun libc were mentioned.

Nexenta came out from nowhere, by the time it's announced they already ported dpkg to Sun libc and created their own gnu/solaris distribution, needless to say many people were shocked.

Nexenta took the risk, why they felt comfortable taking that risk I don't know.
 
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