Anybody else DISAPPOINTED by i7?

TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
1,765
2
81
It's not that the cheapest processor, motherboard, and 6gb of ram cost $1000+ alone - I wouldn't mind paying 1500, if the performance warrented it. When core 2 came out it was so much faster than athlon xp (wtf is a pentium 4) that you pretty much had to have one, even if you had to take a 2nd mortgage to get it, but it wasn't exhorbitantly priced so you probably didn't have to.

i7 on the other hand, is a minor, often negligible increase in performance over existing (old) c2quads, and in games that aren't multithreaded (most games) its pretty equivalent to an e8400 at mid-high resolutions.

With the hefty pricetag for i7, I expected something I could look forward to unloading my bank account on and kissing my pc every night when I go to bed cus it kicked so much ass, but i7 just tastes like sour milk at this point.
 

o1die

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
4,785
0
71
Your assumption about the core i7 performance isn't far off. It all depends on what you use your pc for. The smart folks are waiting for a price drop in ddr3; the core i7 price won't change much, but the motherboards and memory might.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
It's an expectation gap more than anything. Many were expecting Nehalem vs Penryn to be similar to Conroe vs Netburst in terms of performance.

You're not going to get that kind of a spread anymore, unless there's a major shift in the way applications are written that merges well with a new CPU design.
 

TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
1,765
2
81
But even pentium 2 -> pentium 3 -> pentium 4 was a bigger leap forward then core 2 quad -> i7. I agree its an expectation gap, but I don't think the expectations were unrealistic.
 

Soccerman06

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
5,830
5
81
I believe it has been stated many times that the i7 wouldn't be much of an upgrade over the c2 quad core in gaming scenarios. It shines in Encoding and 3D Rendering so don't be mislead.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
153
106
I am not disappointed at all. The IPC improvements are actually much better than I expected. It is expensive, but so too was the GTX280 when it was released. It will come down in price if Deneb is competitive.
 

TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
1,765
2
81
Yes, it does do well in encoding and 3d rendering. If those sort of performance levels carried over to other things including gaming then I would give intel another slap on the back and I'd have one in my system right now. Instead I have no use for it and the price is gonna have to come down quite a bit to make it worthwhile for me. Even then, I'd rather a faster processor than a fair and reasonably priced one. Still hoping Deneb will exceed expectations.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Originally posted by: TidusZ
But even pentium 2 -> pentium 3 -> pentium 4 was a bigger leap forward then core 2 quad -> i7. I agree its an expectation gap, but I don't think the expectations were unrealistic.

Sure they were unrealistic. Computational power compared to the apps available to use it is way out of proportion. Unless you're doing something that's CPU-intensive (like folding, rendering, etc.), most CPUs are idling more than they're being stressed.. and even if you are doing something that's CPU-intensive, it depends on how the program is written to determine if you'll get any significant benefit out of a newer CPU (as opposed to simply a higher-clocked CPU).

Platforms matter a lot, as well. Even in the P2 and P3 days, the rest of a computer's platform was still more of a hinderance to performance than the CPU. Hard drives were slower, hard drive controllers were slower, and memory speeds and subsystems were slower. The importance of subsystem speed (I/O, memory, etc.) is just as significant today as it was back then. If you rate the platform for Nehalem, I think you'd be mistaken to not consider it a major improvement over what it replaces.

Games, by the way, are more dependent on the video card(s) than anything.. at the resolutions they're most commonly played.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
see i think i'm in the opposite position.

I do a lot of rendering and this processor is just what I need. Sometimes I wish my college had a render farm, but all I have is my c2d. Hopefully prices will come down soon because i'm excited to get this chip to see what it can do for my workflow.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Originally posted by: Martimus
I am not disappointed at all. The IPC improvements are actually much better than I expected. It is expensive, but so too was the GTX280 when it was released. It will come down in price if Deneb is competitive.

+1 :thumbsup:

OP also consider that at the time of C2D release you were likely comparing the performance and performance/watt of either a 130nm Northwood or a 90nm Prescott or 90nm Athlon X2 to the performance and performance/watt of 65nm C2D.

The node shrinks alone afforded the C2D team to use massively more (in number) transistors on the 65nm C2D design compared to the number of transistors the 90nm P4 and X2 had at their disposal.

So you had the perfect setup for creating product differentiation - a node shrink meant more transistors (more performance) and it also meant lower power (more performance/watt).

130nm Northwood had 55million xtors
90nm Prescott had 125million xtors
90nm Athlon 64 X2 (2x512KB) had 154million xtors

65nm Core 2 had 295million xtors

So you give the C2D CPU designers twice the number of xtors as you give the Prescott or Athlon X2 design teams and you kinda expect them to deliver some higher performance numbers.

You also give them 65nm node transistors instead of 90nm node transistors...and you kinda expect things to turn out well for the performance/watt metrics.

This is what set the stage for your experience and nostalgia of 2006 C2D release.

Now look at what knew about Nehalem before it was released. Yorkfield was 45nm already, already had those low-power transistors built into the performance/watt. No new node transition for Nehalem.

Also Yorkfield was designed with a transistor budget of 810million transistors (two 410million Penryn MCM'ed together). Nehalem's transistor budget actually shrunk to 731million but now includes the transistors needed for all the uncore stuff (QPI, mem controller, PCU, etc).

So you knew that C2D blew your socks off because it had the advantage of an entire node shrink (power reduction) and twice the transistor budget (performance) and you also knew that Nehalem had neither of these advantages over Penryn (same node, smaller transistor budget)...and yet you claim your expectations were realistic and you feel rightfully disappointed in the Nehalem results?

Pardon me while I shake my head and mutter "what a world, what a world" for a few seconds.

Personally I find the Nehalem results to be simply astounding. To squeeze as much as they did out of the existing 45nm node, and doing it with fewer transistors, that's rare. Very rare. You'd be hard-pressed to find me an example of this ever happening on another occasion in the history of the desktop PC.
 

Majic 7

Senior member
Mar 27, 2008
668
0
0
Thank you IDC for the perspective, everything is not always so cut and dried. Performance for most of us doesn't warrant i7, but there still is that 800 lb. gorilla in the corner giggling with his three 280's. Wish there were some more reviews similar to the one that Guru3D put out. Still find that one hard to digest.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
105
106
I'm not dissapointed because I wasn't expecting all that much, to be honest.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,507
3,210
136
The Core i7 does do better in gaming when comparing SLI systems. The X58 outperforms even nVidias own boards in SLI as seen here and here. When upgrading to a Core i7 I went with an SLI setup for the first time (not counting the VooDoo 2 SLI setup I had in 1998). I'm not disappointed at all.
 

eternalone

Golden Member
Sep 10, 2008
1,500
2
81
This will be a bigger upgrade for AMD that intel this time around. Core i7 I agree is worth passing over if your a frugal computer type like myself till maybe the prices come down substantially. A core 2 8400 or above should hold you over past i7 till about 2011. But I know people and they wont wait that long.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,893
3,245
126
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Pardon me while I shake my head and mutter "what a world, what a world" for a few seconds.

wait i thought the main reason why i got it was so i can see 16 threads on my windows task menu.

 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I am not why you would be dissapointed with a new CPU that fixes pretty much the only flaws/weaknesses with C2D (FPU and the FSB).

With i7, they didn't introduce anything that makes the architechure take a step backwards. Yes they run pretty hot, but so do pretty much all quads...they run with less wattage at idle and slightly higher at load. The trade-off is that you get more performance % than the increase in power usage.

I don't know (someone may prove me wrong) of a game that uses all 4 cores 100% yet; so I would surmise that the i7 will use very similar power as a C2D and will still do more.

IDC makes a good point that i7 does all of this with LESS transisters; that's pretty amazing.

Wait until the die-shrink and you will see this chip really fly. 65nm C2Ds did'nt OC like the current 45nm C2Ds do, so just wait!
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
Originally posted by: TidusZ
But even pentium 2 -> pentium 3 -> pentium 4 was a bigger leap forward then core 2 quad -> i7.

I guess you don't remember when Pentium 4 was first introduced? The big complaint was that it performed no better - and in some cases, worse - than Pentium 3

 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
Who ever gave you the idea that i7 would smoke the chip in my sig for apps that use 1-2 cores?





Penryn is still going to be better than anything anyone else puts out for the near future. The i7 is a different market. And it wont be matched for at least 18 months by its competitor.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
I'm disapointed that a 600HP Corvette ZR1 will not get me to work any faster than a 110HP Cobalt.

Could be that driving to work isn't an "application" that will benefit from 600HP.

Just like games are not an application that will benefit from i7.
 

LtPage1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2004
6,311
2
0
Originally posted by: Phynaz
I'm disapointed that a 600HP Corvette ZR1 will not get me to work any faster than a 110HP Cobalt.

Could be that driving to work isn't an "application" that will benefit from 600HP.

Just like games are not an application that will benefit from i7.

I think you just made a successful cars-computers analogy. :thumbsup:
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Originally posted by: Phynaz
I'm disapointed that a 600HP Corvette ZR1 will not get me to work any faster than a 110HP Cobalt.

Could be that driving to work isn't an "application" that will benefit from 600HP.

Just like games are not an application that will benefit from i7.

Well duh, you didn't increase the axle count here. Throw that 600HP engine on an 8-axle frame and watch the time-to-work metric skyrocket :laugh:

Oh, and it needs more cowbell, obviously.

BTW I agree with LtPage1, I think you did the unthinkable and actually made a computer-to-car analogy that doesn't require the reader to be a gearhead to understand. That has to be a first in my time here on the forums :thumbsup:
 

MarchTheMonth

Junior Member
Nov 16, 2004
12
0
0
Originally posted by: Phynaz
I'm disapointed that a 600HP Corvette ZR1 will not get me to work any faster than a 110HP Cobalt.

Could be that driving to work isn't an "application" that will benefit from 600HP.

Just like games are not an application that will benefit from i7.

I was going to say something along the same line as this, to the effect of why does anyone really care about the i7's gaming performance and for anyone to complain about it means there misguided or misinformed, but your analogy is absolutely the most beautiful thing I've seen in awhile.

+5:thumbsup:
 

bharatwaja

Senior member
Dec 20, 2007
431
0
0
Originally posted by: Phynaz
I'm disapointed that a 600HP Corvette ZR1 will not get me to work any faster than a 110HP Cobalt.

Could be that driving to work isn't an "application" that will benefit from 600HP.

Just like games are not an application that will benefit from i7.

That's just brilliant.... here :beer::thumbsup:
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: TidusZ
It's not that the cheapest processor, motherboard, and 6gb of ram cost $1000+ alone - I wouldn't mind paying 1500, if the performance warrented it. When core 2 came out it was so much faster than athlon xp (wtf is a pentium 4) that you pretty much had to have one, even if you had to take a 2nd mortgage to get it, but it wasn't exhorbitantly priced so you probably didn't have to.

i7 on the other hand, is a minor, often negligible increase in performance over existing (old) c2quads, and in games that aren't multithreaded (most games) its pretty equivalent to an e8400 at mid-high resolutions.

With the hefty pricetag for i7, I expected something I could look forward to unloading my bank account on and kissing my pc every night when I go to bed cus it kicked so much ass, but i7 just tastes like sour milk at this point.

I agree. i7 is not that great (but it was a complete non-traditional redesign). We now wait for games to get multi-threaded! Or something along the lines of Lucid
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |