Anybody else unimpressed with new midrange Nvidia GPUs, and much higher MSRP?

[DidelisDiskas]

What can Nvidia offer at 250 that's a better deal than a 380 980ti? The 1070 will destroy whatever Chance amd has left at regaining market share.

On top of that Nvidia will sell founders editions while amd is still struggling to get to market then hit them with a price drop.

Nvidia wins this generation with profit generating moves hands down. Doesn't matter what hardware amd has, Nvidia will lock the sales up easily.

You should contact amd immediately! This information could save them millions of dollars.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

they mention it twice on the event

I don't remember them saying much of anything about founders editions other than the prices.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

I don't remember them saying much of anything about founders editions other than the prices.

how you didnt notice lol the whole event was to launch them people at beyond3d are speculating that it might indicate low yields or a general absence of gddr5x yet

 

[tential]

You should contact amd immediately! This information could save them millions of dollars.

Just like the 980ti information could save amd millions? Once the cards and architectures are made they're made.

 

[rgallant]

Where did you see that? That would suck.

per Ryan smith

The GTX 1070 will be the latter of the two new Pascal cards, hitting the streets on June 10th. Like the GTX 1080, NVIDIA’s press release is very careful to only attach that date to the Founders Edition version, so we’re still waiting on confirmation over whether the base card will be available on the 10th as well

 

[tential]

have you seen a normal 1070? no
have you seen how they gonna clock a normal 1070? no
have you seen anything from amd?no

fact is we have half of the one side here and nothing more founders cards are really lame move (for consumers) a great move for them i wonder how they gonna justify the price drop of the normal cards

How is the founders edition worse for consumers? A Nvidia is charging as high price as possible for new gpus since they have NO COMPETITION ?

They have every right to charge these prices and if people continue to buy then Nvidia clearly has the right move.

AMD is insanely idiotic to cede the high end to Nvidia. They deserve whatever Nvidia has in store for them this then as they brought it on them selves. The 1070 will repeat the 970 success and Nvidia has not only increased prices but hyper segmented again with founders editions and leaving their 1080ti til later to again get consumers to upgrade.

Nvidia just spoiled the amd parade. If you want to play blind go ahead.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

per Ryan smith

The GTX 1070 will be the latter of the two new Pascal cards, hitting the streets on June 10th. Like the GTX 1080, NVIDIA’s press release is very careful to only attach that date to the Founders Edition version, so we’re still waiting on confirmation over whether the base card will be available on the 10th as well

Oh ok, here's what Nvidia wrote:

http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/a-quantum-leap-in-gaming:-nvidia-introduces-geforce-gtx-1080

Availability and Pricing The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 "Founders Edition" will be available on May 27 for $699. It will be available from ASUS, Colorful, EVGA, Gainward, Galaxy, Gigabyte, Innovision 3D, MSI, NVIDIA. Palit, PNY and Zotac. Custom boards from partners will vary by region and pricing is expected to start at $599. The GeForce GTX 1080 will also be sold in fully configured systems from leading U.S.-based system builders, including AVADirect, Cyberpower, Digital Storm, Falcon Northwest, Geekbox, IBUYPOWER, Maingear, Origin PC, Puget Systems, V3 Gaming and Velocity Micro, as well as system integrators outside North America. The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 "Founders Edition" will be available on June 10 for $449. Custom boards from partners are expected to start at $379. - See more at: http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/a...roduces-geforce-gtx-1080#sthash.hy5yFjTe.dpuf

 

[Fire&Blood]

A few youtubers attending the event are saying 1080 is ~25% faster than the TI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WnmZwChW_s

A video showing the 4k benchmark run of Division at ultra settings, ~42fps avg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=12&v=7fz7sGGMPKM EDIT: video is gone now.

While I never factored power draw and heat output when looking at GPU's, beating the 601mm^2 980TI with 340 mm^2 powered by a single 8pin is impressive.

Big Pascal or bust for me. I've never spent more than $500 on a GPU (have spent more on SLI in the past) and 1080TI might be the first. New architecture, 610mm^2, truly impressive transistor count, nearly doubling the count on the 980TI, L2 cache size going up, clock speeds going up quite a bit and HBM2 as cherry on top.

 

[IEC]

How is the founders edition worse for consumers? A Nvidia is charging as high price as possible for new gpus since they have NO COMPETITION ?

They have every right to charge these prices and if people continue to buy then Nvidia clearly has the right move.

AMD is insanely idiotic to cede the high end to Nvidia. They deserve whatever Nvidia has in store for them this then as they brought it on them selves. The 1070 will repeat the 970 success and Nvidia has not only increased prices but hyper segmented again with founders editions and leaving their 1080ti til later to again get consumers to upgrade.

Nvidia just spoiled the amd parade. If you want to play blind go ahead.

I'd hardly call a $450 video card with undetermined performance a spoiler. Because the vast majority of gamers spend <$300 on graphics cards and still game at 1080P. I think AMD has the winning move here to pick efficiency/small die for Polaris 10 and 11. It will be plenty to hit a sweet spot between 980 and 980 Ti performance.

Now on the high end, it's a different story. But still, not everyone is like us, who have bleeding edge hardware. Gaming on an ultrawide 1440P puts me squarely in a 1%er category...

 

[PPB]

How is the founders edition worse for consumers? A Nvidia is charging as high price as possible for new gpus since they have NO COMPETITION ?

They have every right to charge these prices and if people continue to buy then Nvidia clearly has the right move.

AMD is insanely idiotic to cede the high end to Nvidia. They deserve whatever Nvidia has in store for them this then as they brought it on them selves. The 1070 will repeat the 970 success and Nvidia has not only increased prices but hyper segmented again with founders editions and leaving their 1080ti til later to again get consumers to upgrade.

Nvidia just spoiled the amd parade. If you want to play blind go ahead.

Remember when usual suspects slammed amd for charging 50 bucks more for 25% more performance compared to. 580 without OC potential factored in when they got first to 28nm? The same people defending nvidia doing the same with 980ti - - >1080 on a node and a half(+finfets) jump.

Perf /mm2 besides the node change and IPC seems like havent gone up not a tiny bit with Pascal. Talking about miracles...

Sent from my XT1040 using Tapatalk

 

[Glo.]

What can Nvidia offer at 250 that's a better deal than a 380 980ti? The 1070 will destroy whatever Chance amd has left at regaining market share.

On top of that Nvidia will sell founders editions while amd is still struggling to get to market then hit them with a price drop.

Nvidia wins this generation with profit generating moves hands down. Doesn't matter what hardware amd has, Nvidia will lock the sales up easily.

8.9 TFLOPs GPU is 25% faster than 6.2 TFLOPs GPU. Also it is worth noting that 7 TFLOPs GTX 980 Ti Waterforce Extreme is 4% slower than GTX 1080.

What does it mean? Clock-per-clock Pascal is a little bit slower than Maxwell. Secondly, GTX 1070 will not be faster than Fury, and Fury Nano in DX12 games. Two key reasons: it has exactly the same number of ROPs, and much lower bandwidth, and lower compute power than those GPUs.

Also wait for what AMD will bring to the table. They might not have GTX 1080 destroyer. The Nvidia GPU might be like R9 380X - without direct counterpart. But 1070, is not that groundbreaking as most of people say, and think. Especially at 150W.

 

[Sonikku]

More I look at this release the more that I just think the whole release was very shwarmy and misleading. Looking at other forums, there's a TON referencing the 2x faster than Titan X for the 1080. I mean reddit, forums, videocards and wccf, TONS of people have been misled with that statement that he closed on and failed to mention that the 2x faster than TitanX was ONLY in VR and ONLY with a specific method applied that ZERO games have even announced support for, so in real life its completely non-applicable yet.

Nvidia marketing in a nutshell. They play people for fools and only a minority of gamers are informed enough to know the reality. There are enough ignorant to make a lucrative business model out of this behavior.

 

[piesquared]

8.9 TFLOPs GPU is 25% faster than 6.2 TFLOPs GPU. Also it is worth noting that 7 TFLOPs GTX 980 Ti Waterforce Extreme is 4% slower than GTX 1080.

What does it mean? Clock-per-clock Pascal is a little bit slower than Maxwell. Secondly, GTX 1070 will not be faster than Fury, and Fury Nano in DX12 games. Two key reasons: it has exactly the same number of ROPs, and much lower bandwidth, and lower compute power than those GPUs.

Also wait for what AMD will bring to the table. They might not have GTX 1080 destroyer. The Nvidia GPU might be like R9 380X - without direct counterpart. But 1070, is not that groundbreaking as most of people say, and think. Especially at 150W.

Agreed. A bit of a let down with paper launch on top. I think Polaris is the one everyone will be buying. &#55357;&#56842;

 

[MagickMan]

A few youtubers attending the event are saying 1080 is ~25% faster than the TI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WnmZwChW_s

Precisely. Is a stock 1080 faster than a stock 980Ti? Yeah, by ~20-30% in real world usage, going by what is being reported (the non-hyped info). However, if you have a 980TI that overclocks well, especially one that's liquid cooled, and you can get >1500MHz out of it, then it'll match a 1080 at normal boost clocks.

So, 980TI owners, save up and wait for the 1080TI w/ HBM, probably coming out in Q1 of next year. That's going to be the real single-GPU 4K solution. I'm betting it's going to be pricey, though. Expect $750-800.

 

[MagickMan]

Agreed. A bit of a let down with paper launch on top. I think Polaris is the one everyone will be buying. &#65533;&#65533;

Only if it can do >60 FPS @4K in all the major titles, with all settings maxed out. Otherwise, no.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Nvidia marketing in a nutshell. They play people for fools and only a minority of gamers are informed enough to know the reality. There are enough ignorant to make a lucrative business model out of this behavior.

The whole capitalism works by exploiting weaknesses and building on strengths.

 

[tential]

I love how upset people are about the "Paper Launch", and not because it obviously wasn't coming, but because review sites are hard on AMD for a Paper Launch and not on Nvidia, so now they are upset about the Paper Launch in their stead....

 

[Elixer]

That's incorrect. MRTs allow to render to up to 8 render targets simultaneously, but you are rendering the very same geometry with the very same shader (the shader can output different data to each render target).
You cannot use MRTs to render left and right views for VR because both views use different projection matrices. Without that you lose depth perception.

On current GPUs if you want to render an object as seen from the left and the right eyes, its geometry has to be sent to the GPU and transformed *twice*; once per view. According what NVIDIA presented tonight on Pascal you can send the geometry to the GPU *once* and the HW will process both views, at the same time, in a single pass. That's where the improved performance and efficiency likely comes from.

To clarify: MRTs and viewports are completely different things and none of them are necessary for single pass stereo rendering.

https://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/extensions/OVR/multiview.txt
https://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/extensions/OVR/multiview2.txt

On current GPUs you can do geometry instancing, rendering instancing as well, and have different projection matrix and even different modelview matrix for each render target and also do this in a single-pass, but, this is getting way out of topic for this forum section.

I still say that until we actually see the SDK, and the actual code (will it be a new extension?), that this is nothing more than smoke & mirrors (speculation), and I am betting it can also be done on all current generation hardware as well.

 

[hawtdawg]

Possibly the most disappointing thing i can think of. Has there been an Nvidia GPU generation with this small of a jump from one flagship to the next?

 

[SteveGrabowski]

So, 980TI owners, save up and wait for the 1080TI w/ HBM, probably coming out in Q1 of next year. That's going to be the real single-GPU 4K solution. I'm betting it's going to be pricey, though. Expect $750-800.

Not a chance. Q1 2017 is when GP100 launches for HPC buyers. No way they'd sell a $1000 Titan that early, much less a $750 1080Ti.

 

[Glo.]

Guys, did anyone of you did the maths, lately about GTX 1070?

2048 CUDA core GPU clocked at 1575 MHz brings... 6.5 TFLOPs of compute power. At 150W of power. Is it only me, or is it... very disappointing?

 

[Head1985]

Guys, did anyone of you did the maths, lately about GTX 1070?

2048 CUDA core GPU clocked at 1575 MHz brings... 6.5 TFLOPs of compute power. At 150W of power. Is it only me, or is it... very disappointing?

Yep its just GTX980OC.

 

[RussianSensation]

How is the founders edition worse for consumers? A Nvidia is charging as high price as possible for new gpus since they have NO COMPETITION ?

You just contradicted yourself in the same post.

$329 970 -> $449 1070 (delay after-market $379 1070 until July?)
$499 680 -> $549 980 -> $699 1080!

How the hell is this good for consumers?

It's worse because even after AIBs release open air cooled cards, those who water cool are likely stuck paying these premiums for reference blowers that they will throw inside a box. Unless the Founders Editions have amazing overclocking headroom and Gigabyte Gauntlet style cherry-picked top 1% chips for overclocking, there is no way these premiums for a crappy blower are justified. Asus Strix, MSI Gaming, Gigabyte G1, Zotac Extreme cards will blow the doors off these reference cards and have 0 dBA operation to boot and you know it

They have every right to charge these prices and if people continue to buy then Nvidia clearly has the right move.

No one is really arguing against that but it's not good for consumers. You are asking how is the Founder's Edition worse for consumers? It's simple. It costs more than previous reference design blower cards and appears to cost more more than after-market cards that will show up in July and beyond. So it's an Early Adopter Tax or a permanent tax on reference blower cards.

AMD is insanely idiotic to cede the high end to Nvidia. They deserve whatever Nvidia has in store for them this then as they brought it on them selves.

If you look at the most popular cards on Steam right now, other than 970, it's lower end cards from NV that wiped the floor with AMD. It is stupid for AMD to concede the high-end for 2016 but it sounds like they had no choice. If Vega was always designed as a 700GB/sec-1TB HBM2 product, it's probably not a 3 months of work redesign to get it to work with 10Gbps GDDR5X with only a 320GB/sec memory bus.

Did you ever think that Vega will be significantly faster than a 1080? I highly doubt that AMD is going to use 700GB/sec-1TB HBM2 and then release a card with likely a greater die size than 1080 and yet lose to the 1080. It means AMD is banking on significantly outperforming 1070/1080 cards with higher-end Vega 10/11 products and are taking a risk doing so.

Over the HD7900 and R9 200 series, they actually had extremely strong products in the $400+ space and that didn't help. So clearly, where AMD is by far the weakest is in the sub-$300 mobile and dGPU market. AMD's dGPU sales went down from 7.7M to 3.55M per quarter before 970/980 even showed up (chart in post #174). So that in itself proves that $380-700 market is LESS important for AMD's market share. Of course there is a lot of risk involved since NV can bring out 1050/1050Ti/1060/1060Ti and neutralize Polaris 10 and 11 as well.

I'd hardly call a $450 video card with undetermined performance a spoiler. Because the vast majority of gamers spend <$300 on graphics cards and still game at 1080P. I think AMD has the winning move here to pick efficiency/small die for Polaris 10 and 11. It will be plenty to hit a sweet spot between 980 and 980 Ti performance.

Now on the high end, it's a different story. But still, not everyone is like us, who have bleeding edge hardware. Gaming on an ultrawide 1440P puts me squarely in a 1%er category...

Even the highly popular 970 managed 5.10% total market share on Stream in 1.5 years. This is an incredible achievement for a $330 card but still not mainstream pricing/mainstream market share. If the early 1070 cards are all reference versions for $450 USD, Polaris 10 has the entire $199-299 sector to play with and do well. That of course assumes AMD launches soon and NV's response with 1060/1060Ti is going to happen only later in August/September.

Remember when usual suspects slammed amd for charging 50 bucks more for 25% more performance compared to. 580 without OC potential factored in when they got first to 28nm? The same people defending nvidia doing the same with 980ti - - >1080 on a node and a half(+finfets) jump.

Are you surprised? To this date, the same people deny that AMD won both the HD7000/R9 280X vs. 680/770 and R9 290/290X vs. 780/780Ti generations.

What 7970 OC did to 580 OC on launch drivers was impressive, very impressive. In comparison, 1070/1080 are a joke.

Now that NV is constantly raising prices, now artificially assigning big premiums on blowers and separating 1070 so much from 1080 that might as well call the 1070 at GTX1060Ti with a $379-449 price tag, there is none of the backlash against Pascal from the same posters. Instead, many of them are going to be upgrading from GTX670/680/770/780/780Ti and loving it.

Double standards are a common theme, especially for the loyalists.

Precisely. Is a stock 1080 faster than a stock 980Ti? Yeah, by ~20-30% in real world usage, going by what is being reported (the non-hyped info). However, if you have a 980TI that overclocks well, especially one that's liquid cooled, and you can get >1500MHz out of it, then it'll match a 1080 at normal boost clocks.

So, 980TI owners, save up and wait for the 1080TI w/ HBM, probably coming out in Q1 of next year. That's going to be the real single-GPU 4K solution. I'm betting it's going to be pricey, though. Expect $750-800.

I think the bigger issue for 980Ti owners is the 1070. Once after-market 1070 cards start coming out in July for $380, 980Ti won't be worth more than $325-350 on the used market. So instead of purchasing a 1080, it may be possible to 'downgrade' to a 1070 and have similar performance to a 980Ti OC with all the other benefits such as features, power usage, more VRAM, etc. But ya, if someone is water cooling, then all of this is out the window now with Founders Editions tacking on huge premiums on reference blower cards.

I love how upset people are about the "Paper Launch", and not because it obviously wasn't coming, but because review sites are hard on AMD for a Paper Launch and not on Nvidia, so now they are upset about the Paper Launch in their stead....

It's fair. If a review site is going to criticize one company, then they MUST criticize another company for the same issues or it's a double standard. As soon as that double standard is exposed, no review from that review site can be trusted since they have showed bias.

 

[Head1985]

If someone is interested in 1070 vs 980TI look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onluJ1-QyU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lakYkk-csb0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZtjK3vHGqc

1070 will be GTX980 at 1600/8000.

 

[dark zero]

How is the founders edition worse for consumers? A Nvidia is charging as high price as possible for new gpus since they have NO COMPETITION ?

They have every right to charge these prices and if people continue to buy then Nvidia clearly has the right move.

AMD is insanely idiotic to cede the high end to Nvidia. They deserve whatever Nvidia has in store for them this then as they brought it on them selves. The 1070 will repeat the 970 success and Nvidia has not only increased prices but hyper segmented again with founders editions and leaving their 1080ti til later to again get consumers to upgrade.

Nvidia just spoiled the amd parade. If you want to play blind go ahead.

You don't know what nVIDIA had done... If they don't have stock, they will be easy prey for AMD. Unless they ask Intel to fabricate the cards since Samsung and GloFo are doing chips for AMD.