Anybody else unimpressed with new midrange Nvidia GPUs, and much higher MSRP?

[exar333]

It will be sad if AMD puts out only 390x performance with P10, unless it's msrp is $200 or less. They should be able to get better performance at the same clocks as a R9 390x. Then they should be able to increase the clocks by a lot.

Agreed. Otherwise it just makes you wish you bought a 290/x years ago and called it a day.

Don't get me wrong...from a VR/DX12 perspective, AMD is in a good place and there will be a market for $200-300 cards. Unfortunately, right now early adopters for VR probably don't mind getting a more premium GPU as the entry cost is already high for VR. Also, the 970 and 390/x are already affordable options for entry-level VR. If you are already spending $600+ on a VR headset, you probably don't mind paying an extra $100-200 for close to top-tier performance.

Time will tell, of course.

 

[R0H1T]

It will be sad if AMD puts out only 390x performance with P10, unless it's msrp is $200 or less. They should be able to get better performance at the same clocks as a R9 390x. Then they should be able to increase the clocks by a lot.

So you want AMD to sell 390x level of performance for 200$ while Nvidia makes all the dough with something like a 1070, more than 2x of where you want the Polaris to land, which will not be 2x the level of 390x, likely never in the future either!

I guess them going bankrupt doing this never crossed your mind?

 

[xthetenth]

I really really hope AMD doesnt mean something like this, otherwise those R9 390 performance estimations could be true.

On the contrary I hope they do mean something like that, but also that they really meant it talking about making VR available for cheaper. 380X or so performance from Polaris 11 with that degree of improvement in VR might just be able to pull it off.

 

[pj-]

On the other hand, VR being so new, we can expect dual GPU to be included from early as the old AFR problems simply do not exist.

By the way, how many VR games are there?

If you count everything on steam that is available and has a price, I think it's in the hundreds already. I think oculus' store is over 50 as well.


My steam library has 22 VR things, which includes a handful of free demos/experiences, with the rest being games that cost money and are hopefully good. I won't know until stupid htc decides to ship my vive.

The majority of current VR games are very simple unity projects that have a couple months of development time by 1-2 man teams. If UE4/Unity add multi gpu support then that would change things drastically. However, even if that happened, developers are still targeting 970/390 level gpus so there isn't much need for more performance at this point. Regular games that add a VR mode (e.g. project cars) will likely be the most graphically demanding for the next year or two.

Second gen headsets with two 4k screens will likely be the driver for dual GPU support in vr games.

 

[swilli89]

Second gen headsets with two 4k screens will likely be the driver for dual GPU support in vr games.

This is what I am waiting on for VR. We need a wider field of view and zero screen door effect for it to really "arrive" in my book. I'm thinking probably a dual Vega setup next summer.

 

[Paul98]

Agreed. Otherwise it just makes you wish you bought a 290/x years ago and called it a day.

Thankfully I did, and will be looking for a laptop once these get out into that space.

 

[AtenRa]

On the contrary I hope they do mean something like that, but also that they really meant it talking about making VR available for cheaper. 380X or so performance from Polaris 11 with that degree of improvement in VR might just be able to pull it off.

I mean I really hope they havent put all their effort in to VR and neglected ordinary gaming performance.

 

[Keysplayr]

even low end passively cooled GPUs can come with vapor chambers.

Could, but don't.

 

[railven]

Could, but don't.

Recent thread here showed that they did - and they sucked.

To the main page!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2472221

 

[Stuka87]

I think NV knows the market right now. After the whole 970 fiasco, I was really wanting to go AMD this round, but not sure I will have a high-performance option. My build is happening at the end of this month, and timing will be perfect for the 1080/1070. Not sure P10 will have enough performance for me (was on the fence for the 980Ti already) and the 1080 will probably get my $$$. Hopefully will get the chance to reassess the landscape at the end of the year or early next year and see if there are other options.

If you are building a system this month, I would not count on getting a 1080 anytime soon. You may get lucky and get one of the overpriced "Founders" edition cards, but chances are they will be sold out for quite some time.

 

[Stuka87]

There is nothing special about them using a vapor chamber on the 1070/1080 cards. They are almost always used on blower type coolers. Even the reference 670/680 used a vapor chamber cooler.

Heat pipes are superior for cooling, but they also require more room, so you end up with a thicker card.

 

[n0x1ous]

There is nothing special about them using a vapor chamber on the 1070/1080 cards. They are almost always used on blower type coolers. Even the reference 670/680 used a vapor chamber cooler.

This is false. Nvidia reference only used vapor chamber on the 250w TDP cards until the 1080

 

[maddie]

If you count everything on steam that is available and has a price, I think it's in the hundreds already. I think oculus' store is over 50 as well.


My steam library has 22 VR things, which includes a handful of free demos/experiences, with the rest being games that cost money and are hopefully good. I won't know until stupid htc decides to ship my vive.

The majority of current VR games are very simple unity projects that have a couple months of development time by 1-2 man teams. If UE4/Unity add multi gpu support then that would change things drastically. However, even if that happened, developers are still targeting 970/390 level gpus so there isn't much need for more performance at this point. Regular games that add a VR mode (e.g. project cars) will likely be the most graphically demanding for the next year or two.

Second gen headsets with two 4k screens will likely be the driver for dual GPU support in vr games.

That's what I meant. More like novelty items than real games as we are accustomed to getting. The true games are still coming.

 

[kaesden]

I'm just concerned about the pricing. If the reference/founders edition cards are going for $699, why would any vender stick to the $599 price point for their custom models which will be faster/quieter/cooler than a reference card? Generally the 'better' product ends up with a higher price tag. Why would asus sell their overclocked higher performing card with the strix cooler for less than they sell the slower reference/founder card? I'd expect the factory OC'd cards with good air coolers to end up costing MORE than $699 for a 1080. Likely from $750-800.

 

[moonbogg]

This is false. Nvidia reference only used vapor chamber on the 250w TDP cards until the 1080

Yeah, and that cooler is a complete POS. They should have given discounts to us for dealing with such a crappy cooler. Louder than crap, appears to deposit heat ONTO the die rather than remove it somehow, and ensures reliable down clocking upon game launch. Although I think Nvidia could somehow turn that last one into a "feature".

 

[Keysplayr]

Recent thread here showed that they did - and they sucked.

To the main page!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2472221

Just a poor design.

 

[railven]

I'm just concerned about the pricing. If the reference/founders edition cards are going for $699, why would any vender stick to the $599 price point for their custom models which will be faster/quieter/cooler than a reference card? Generally the 'better' product ends up with a higher price tag. Why would asus sell their overclocked higher performing card with the strix cooler for less than they sell the slower reference/founder card? I'd expect the factory OC'd cards with good air coolers to end up costing MORE than $699 for a 1080. Likely from $750-800.

Probably because they don't see NV as a threat at this point. And NV has been doing this since 2010 when they introduced their brand to retailers.

So, again, this isn't new. Unless it's 2010?

Just a poor design.

Most def.

 

[exar333]

If you are building a system this month, I would not count on getting a 1080 anytime soon. You may get lucky and get one of the overpriced "Founders" edition cards, but chances are they will be sold out for quite some time.

Been able to get a 5870, 670, 970 all at launch. Just gotta get up early and pay attention.

If for some reason I can't get one, I always have P10 or a used 980Ti to get me by. Waiting a month isn't really an option.

 

[jantjeuh]

Yes but be aware that in 6 months or so you may see the 980ti struggle to keep up with even a 390x in new games. Or maybe that's happening already in some new games. I'm not trolling you either. I'm actually being serious right now and that's kind of rare for me.

You know, you are right and have changed my mind. I'm keeping my 7870 XT for a while longer

All I'm playing nowadays is Diablo 3 anyway, and for that my current card suffices. Will probably upgrade once Battlefield 1 and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided are released. Hopefully Vega is available then!

 

[Bacon1]

So you want AMD to sell 390x level of performance for 200$ while Nvidia makes all the dough with something like a 1070, more than 2x of where you want the Polaris to land, which will not be 2x the level of 390x, likely never in the future either!

I guess them going bankrupt doing this never crossed your mind?

AMD can't compete unless they sell 90% performance for 50% of the price right? :\

 

[CakeMonster]

Nah, expect to see 7nm TSMC GPUs in 2019/2020.

I admire your optimism

 

[Killer_Croc]

Been able to get a 5870, 670, 970 all at launch. Just gotta get up early and pay attention.

If for some reason I can't get one, I always have P10 or a used 980Ti to get me by. Waiting a month isn't really an option.

Wow the 5870. When it launched it was so difficult to get one of those. I remember I went with a friend to pick one up and we had to reserve it as I believe they only had one in stock at the time (from a Canada Computers).

On the subject of MSRP pricing I don't see how Nvidia can justify charging a higher price premium for reference cards. Usually reference cards are the cheaper price point while custom cards or non-reference designs usually get a higher price point due to features, customization, warranty, etc... Nvidia has to be very confident that Polaris won't compete with Pascal otherwise this is a huge gamble.

 

[thilanliyan]

W
On the subject of MSRP pricing I don't see how Nvidia can justify charging a higher price premium for reference cards.

nV will charge whatever people are willing to pay for their cards, and those prices don't seem out of whack with what people are probably willing to pay. And reference cards can be very good designs actually...sometimes when the vendors make custom cards they cheap out.

 

[Killer_Croc]

nV will charge whatever people are willing to pay for their cards, and those prices don't seem out of whack with what people are probably willing to pay. And reference cards can be very good designs actually...sometimes when the vendors make custom cards they cheap out.

It's too early to tell whether or not consumers will be willing to pay more for founders edition video cards over a non-reference design. Non-reference designs can also be very quite capable and may be better in several aspects. AMD hasn't released Polaris so if Nvidia charges this kind of pricing but AMD's Polaris has just as good price/performance then they would have to lower prices or lose market share. Hopefully it will be a price war just like 2008.

I'm not sure which vendor you are referring to but XFX for example when they made non-reference 6970's they cut corners on the PCB in several ways and they have made non-reference design revisions even to reference designs.

 

[railven]

Been able to get a 5870, 670, 970 all at launch. Just gotta get up early and pay attention.

If for some reason I can't get one, I always have P10 or a used 980Ti to get me by. Waiting a month isn't really an option.

I was off the day the Fury X launched and I still missed it