Anybody else unimpressed with new midrange Nvidia GPUs, and much higher MSRP?

[exar333]

Pretty sure they will instruct the reviewers to compare then with a refrence card.....

There is more than one way to compare. Max OC vs max OC and stock vs. stock are definitely the most important for most buyers. Some people never OC, others always will. It's good to have different perspectives.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

There is more than one way to compare. Max OC vs max OC and stock vs. stock are definitely the most important for most buyers. Some people never OC, others always will. It's good to have different perspectives.

thats the problem

how many of those reviewers will be bold and say that the cards are OC from factory? let alone to actually compare them with oc cards?

no one will
its the same as we kept seeing with fury x constantly comparing a refrence card with a highly oc'ed one

but i will laugh so hard if they actually do it once more and the real perf gap of the old one and the new ones are 10-20 fps (will be the tenth time in a row that they will do this)

 

[master_shake_]

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/40585-amd-polaris-10-packs-390-performance

fudzilla (yeah i know) is saying that the polaris 10 is equal or sometimes better than the 390/390x

 

[Mopetar]

Seriously, if those are your posts, just GET OUT of the discussion, because you clearly have no idea what's going on if you think Nvidia will lose market share over that.

What does AMD have anything to do with it? It's a simple matter of GP100 being very limited by the fact that it's a massive die on a new node and isn't going to yield well. They can either sell every functional die for $12,000 or they can sell it for around $1,500 because that's what the performance premium could command.

Some people would gladly pay for it because they'll always buy the most powerful card. Hell they'd probably buy two of them, but it doesn't make any financial sense for NV to sell something for 1/10 of what they could get otherwise.

Eventually they will release a consumer GP100 die, but I don't see it happening until late 2017. P100 isn't shipping until early next year so it's unlikely we see a consumer version before the summer and more likely not until next fall. The person I was replying to was asking about the 1080 lasting 6 months before NV comes out with a new card that beats it. I don't see that happening for the reasons I've outlined above. The only way it happens is if they sell an even more cut down version of GP100 as a 1080 Ti, which they may well do, but it really depends on the yields.

 

[sontin]

GP100 will never be released as a consumer card. The FP32 performance is just not as good as it must be.

 

[linkgoron]

There is more than one way to compare. Max OC vs max OC and stock vs. stock are definitely the most important for most buyers. Some people never OC, others always will. It's good to have different perspectives.

The question is - what is the average "stock" speed? There are many out of the box 10%-20% 980ti OC versions.

 

[swilli89]

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/40585-amd-polaris-10-packs-390-performance

fudzilla (yeah i know) is saying that the polaris 10 is equal or sometimes better than the 390/390x

Again as said before, AMD has stressed "new price points" for this class of performance. I don't really doubt the performance claim as we are almost 100% guaranteed to have SOME version Polaris 10 at ~390x performance, whether that's the top end Polaris 10 or a lesser version. $299 and 390X performance is nothing new. AMD knows that, and since 290 series is the benchmark for VR minimum performance and those cards were basically already available at that price years ago then it doesn't make sense that AMD would do this, ESPECIALLY on a new node!!!!

I'm not saying this won't happen but if it does its going to be a huge letdown. I truly believe we are going to see a shakeup. Something like the 4850 stunner back in 2008. I mean Anand HIMSELF had the words "AMD WINS" in the title! AMD utterly changed the $199 price point back then.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2556

I'm expecting them to do it again! Something like 80% of 1070 performance at $199. If they do that.. they can relax about their decision to cede the high end for a few months. Yes nvidia will clean up with the 1080, but AMD will get a ton of smart shopping gamers. This is the kind of thing that PC gaming needs, a truly high end card for the masses. A 1070 card releasing at near $500 is not a card for the masses.

 

[digitaldurandal]

The question is - what is the average "stock" speed? There are many out of the box 10%-20% 980ti OC versions.

Yes 1080 seems like it is a sidegrade to the 980ti, which is great news for AMD since Vega is not ready. I have to think this choice was made because Nvidia knew AMD was behind.

 

[xpea]

Eventually they will release a consumer GP100 die, but I don't see it happening until late 2017. P100 isn't shipping until early next year so it's unlikely we see a consumer version before the summer and more likely not until next fall. The person I was replying to was asking about the 1080 lasting 6 months before NV comes out with a new card that beats it. I don't see that happening for the reasons I've outlined above. The only way it happens is if they sell an even more cut down version of GP100 as a 1080 Ti, which they may well do, but it really depends on the yields.

I also believe GP100 will never be in a Geforce card.
But I also believe that GP102 is real and will become the new Ti and Titan to fight Vega

 

[amg377]

Here is the way I see it Polaris vs whatever NV has under the 1070, and Vega vs 1070 and upward...will be fun to see how it plays out, because I don't need to upgrade right off the bat if it all.

 

[lilltesaito]

Yes 1080 seems like it is a sidegrade to the 980ti, which is great news for AMD since Vega is not ready. I have to think this choice was made because Nvidia knew AMD was behind.

Feel like Nvidia is forcing out their product faster because they want to undermine AMD like they did with the 980ti and Furyx. I don't think they are really ready and that is why they are having the founders card(lower inventory, high prices). I would not be shocked if Nvidia has someone in AMD giving them the info about products, they seem to be 10 steps ahead of AMD.

I dont think Nvida think amd is behind, but they just want to keep AMD down as much as they can.

 

[Despoiler]

970 dominated because there was not an alternative from AMD at the time. This time we will have Polaris 10, so its not the same as before. Im not saying 1070 will not sell well, but i really have my doubts it will dominate like 970.

Nvidia dominated because their consumer base doesn't do any research. Non-reference 290/x were already faster than the 970 in 50% of games.

 

[tential]

Again as said before, AMD has stressed "new price points" for this class of performance. I don't really doubt the performance claim as we are almost 100% guaranteed to have SOME version Polaris 10 at ~390x performance, whether that's the top end Polaris 10 or a lesser version. $299 and 390X performance is nothing new. AMD knows that, and since 290 series is the benchmark for VR minimum performance and those cards were basically already available at that price years ago then it doesn't make sense that AMD would do this, ESPECIALLY on a new node!!!!

I'm not saying this won't happen but if it does its going to be a huge letdown. I truly believe we are going to see a shakeup. Something like the 4850 stunner back in 2008. I mean Anand HIMSELF had the words "AMD WINS" in the title! AMD utterly changed the $199 price point back then.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2556

I'm expecting them to do it again! Something like 80% of 1070 performance at $199. If they do that.. they can relax about their decision to cede the high end for a few months. Yes nvidia will clean up with the 1080, but AMD will get a ton of smart shopping gamers. This is the kind of thing that PC gaming needs, a truly high end card for the masses. A 1070 card releasing at near $500 is not a card for the masses.

80% of 1070 performance is literally a 390x for $200.

The 390x is 80% of the 1070/980ti performance by tech power ups reviews.

So the 1070 will be almost twice as expensive. (if Polaris is 250 that's 1.5 times more expensive if 200 it's exactly 1.9)

So I don't think amd is planning on beating the 1070 /1080 at all. I think what theyre saying is, get a 400/500 cf 390x and compete with the 1080 at a very low power consumption and lower price.

So I'd say 250 for Polaris 10. 300 simply won't happen it's way too close to the 1070 and begins to justify the 1070 performance difference. If the 1080 is truly 20% on top of that, then the Polaris crossfire should crush the 1080 easily in situations where cf scaling works.

So it looks like the real deal would be Polaris 10 crossfire. Actually you could even pull 3xpolaris 10 for founders edition 1080 and that level of performance would allow for 4k gaming easily.

Given AMD's marketing team though, they'll fail miserably at explaining Polaris 10 as a value pick.

For some reason people believe that logic is what defines the market. Emotion does, and the 1070 has evoked the emotion of Gamers who now feel Titan x performance is in reach.

 

[Aristotelian]

I'm not disappointed by the price, but rather the lack of immediate availability of the flagship Pascal products.

And I'm still not sure what this "founders edition" is. Since I'm waiting for waterblocks to come out for the 1080s I guess I'll have time to wait, and read reviews - letting the dust settle a bit

 

[maddie]

Feel like Nvidia is forcing out their product faster because they want to undermine AMD like they did with the 980ti and Furyx. I don't think they are really ready and that is why they are having the founders card(lower inventory, high prices). I would not be shocked if Nvidia has someone in AMD giving them the info about products, they seem to be 10 steps ahead of AMD.

I dont tihnk Nvida think amd is behind, but they just want to keep AMD down as much as they can.

That is very much a double edged sword.

980Ti was much better than FuryX, so that strategy could and did work.

If on the other hand you end up with Polaris running with at least the 1070 for substantially less money, you look like quite a fool [polite word used].

Soon we'll see which scenario is in play.

 

[railven]

That is very much a double edged sword.

980Ti was much better than FuryX, so that strategy could and did work.

If on the other hand you end up with Polaris running with at least the 1070 for substantially less money, you look like quite a fool [polite word used].

Soon we'll see which scenario is in play.

If I had to guess, NV did it last time because they knew it would work.

If I had to guess they got moles feeding info even AMD hasn't released.

Either way, the sides taken on this are interesting. I'm eager to see who's right.

EDIT: I'd just like to point out, that when 980 Ti came out, this place was still riding on the rumors of Fury X being faster, which is why it was rationalized that NV dropped 980 Ti so quickly.

 

[jlee]

970 dominated because there was not an alternative from AMD at the time. This time we will have Polaris 10, so its not the same as before. Im not saying 1070 will not sell well, but i really have my doubts it will dominate like 970.

I became disillusioned with AMD after the R9 290's - incredibly loud, incredibly hot, and then mine died (it came from eBay...I think a miner wore it out). I bought a GTX 970 and haven't looked back.

Nvidia dominated because their consumer base doesn't do any research. Non-reference 290/x were already faster than the 970 in 50% of games.

Or because people didn't want to listen to a vacuum cleaner in their computer case.

 

[MagickMan]

Not a chance. Q1 2017 is when GP100 launches for HPC buyers. No way they'd sell a $1000 Titan that early, much less a $750 1080Ti.

Sure they can, HPC is an entirely different segment with different needs (much like Quadro customers). An HBM 16GB TI and 32GB Titan are totally doable in Q1 of `17, especially given how much HBM is ramping up right now.

 

[MagickMan]

I think the bigger issue for 980Ti owners is the 1070. Once after-market 1070 cards start coming out in July for $380, 980Ti won't be worth more than $325-350 on the used market. So instead of purchasing a 1080, it may be possible to 'downgrade' to a 1070 and have similar performance to a 980Ti OC with all the other benefits such as features, power usage, more VRAM, etc. But ya, if someone is water cooling, then all of this is out the window now with Founders Editions tacking on huge premiums on reference blower cards.

Nah. Going by benches I have seen, the 1070 simply isn't that fast in real world games.

 

[MagickMan]

Really?

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/R9_390_Nitro/23.html

Yeah... it really doesn't, does it? :\ In what, maybe 2 games it's about the same in performance? In all the rest the TI beats, if not crushes, the 390. Not that you'd expect it to, it's technically inferior and half the price.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/40585-amd-polaris-10-packs-390-performance

fudzilla (yeah i know) is saying that the polaris 10 is equal or sometimes better than the 390/390x

I hope not, $299 for R9 390 performance would suck when you could get that for $250 a year and a half ago (and get three games with it too) with the R9 290.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

I became disillusioned with AMD after the R9 290's - incredibly loud, incredibly hot, and then mine died (it came from eBay...I think a miner wore it out). I bought a GTX 970 and haven't looked back.



Or because people didn't want to listen to a vacuum cleaner in their computer case.

Aftermarket 290/Xs can be very quiet.

 

[jlee]

They can also be incredibly loud - but given that they're cooling 275 watts, I can't say I'm surprised.

I had Gigabyte cards; they're probably on the louder side of that scale. If AMD/ATI has something good to offer this time around, I'll definitely consider it...but the 1080 has my attention.

 

[maddie]

I became disillusioned with AMD after the R9 290's - incredibly loud, incredibly hot, and then mine died (it came from eBay...I think a miner wore it out). I bought a GTX 970 and haven't looked back.



Or because people didn't want to listen to a vacuum cleaner in their computer case.

You bought a used card from a miner that highly likely abused it, and your reaction was to be disillusioned with AMD.

I'm stunned.

 

[JDG1980]

I became disillusioned with AMD after the R9 290's - incredibly loud, incredibly hot, and then mine died (it came from eBay...I think a miner wore it out). I bought a GTX 970 and haven't looked back.

The only problem with the R9 290 was the crappy reference cooler. Since AMD has Sapphire making their FirePro cards, I don't know why they didn't just arrange to have the Sapphire Tri-X as the reference card for Hawaii. That cooler fixed pretty much all the problems with the stock card.

Perf/watt would have been much better for Hawaii if they had set a clock speed of 800-900 MHz, but that would have put benchmarks below the original Titan (at least at that time) and AMD wanted to beat it.