Anybody else unimpressed with new midrange Nvidia GPUs, and much higher MSRP?

[tential]

And, this is why I am lukewarm on Nvidia cards; I don't like "renting performance" while retaining the "ownership risk" associated with the resale value of these cards. I just don't like how this deal is unfavorably skewed towards me, as the buyer. Call it a philosophical aversion to getting screwed, doesn't matter if it's for a few hundred bucks or, well a lot more meaningful and material... Lol
How many new games can one get out of a new top performing card before having to upgrade because of Nvidia's short term driver optimization cycle for new cards- 2-3 at most?... Lol
I am not as confident about 1070 doing nearly as well as the 970 from a unit sales perspective, but I guess time will tell.

I understand the rent risk you dislike. I mean, you have to be SUPER careful if you're going to "rent" a card.

To that end, you want the 1070, or the 1080Ti. We know the 1080 will lose value ASAP.

In fact, I think once benchmarks show Polaris 10 crossfire DESTROYING the 1080 (And yes, I'm calling it here that the 1080 will be made a fool of by 390x crossfire). And before someone posts the techpowerup suite with the 295x2 on par with the 980Ti, lets be real and realize they include games in which CF doesn't work or scaling is poor.

When we come to games it does work?

1070 may be raw more powerful than a P10 card. But even a 1070 in SLI will be a joke compared to P10 in CF, both in price and performance.

You gotta rent a card that can't lose too much value like a 1070, or just bite the bullet and realize you're paying $50-150 a year to game with Nvidia's high end which really isn't that bad.
But I'll take my luck with crossfire scaling. No decent game that I want to play doesn't support CF.

Nothing will beat 3xP10 in Price/performance ratio though. 1080SLI will be the biggest letdown in performance ever when compared to P10.

 

[Bacon1]

Have you heard what JHH said during event ?
He was so happy about that, a big spike to AMD when he said that 1080 has huge OC headroom. He said that it will OC "easily" above 2GHz

and yes, when OC, it will be above 180W (value at reference clocks), but what card doesn't increase power when OC ? it's not specific to NV, nor black magic guys

If they can guarantee 25% OC, why don't they clock them higher out of the box??

 

[Stuka87]

If they can guarantee 25% OC, why don't they clock them higher out of the box??

Because chances are the power consumption shoots way up.

 

[tential]

If they can guarantee 25% OC, why don't they clock them higher out of the box??

People don't want to downclock/undervolt their GPUs to save power. So these cards wouldn't be used by people with small PSUs/Oems which is a surprisingly large amount of people.

 

[jlee]

Do you know the difference between reference and aftermarket in the context of video cards?

Your statement on the Gigabyte cards leads me to think you don't know the difference.

Yes, I know the difference. I don't, however, know what cooler each company is using. As long as it works and doesn't scream, I don't really care all that much. Clearly I should've done more research before buying what I did.

You bought a used card from a miner that highly likely abused it, and your reaction was to be disillusioned with AMD.

I'm stunned.

Even if the cards didn't die, they used a ridiculous amount of power and made far too much noise. I could've gone and bought a new one, but unless a 3rd party card somehow cuts 100 watts off the TDP it'd still basically be an electric heater. I bought a GTX 970 ~18 months ago for $298. I'm perfectly happy with it, and in the end that's all that really matters to me.

 

[provost]

I understand the rent risk you dislike. I mean, you have to be SUPER careful if you're going to &quot;rent&quot; a card.<br />
<br />
To that end, you want the 1070, or the 1080Ti. We know the 1080 will lose value ASAP. <br />
<br />
In fact, I think once benchmarks show Polaris 10 crossfire DESTROYING the 1080 (And yes, I'm calling it here that the 1080 will be made a fool of by 390x crossfire). And before someone posts the techpowerup suite with the 295x2 on par with the 980Ti, lets be real and realize they include games in which CF doesn't work or scaling is poor.<br />
<br />
When we come to games it does work?<br />
<br />
<img src="http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1455189919EDyKUcGV8E_9_4.gif" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<br />
1070 may be raw more powerful than a P10 card. But even a 1070 in SLI will be a joke compared to P10 in CF, both in price and performance.<br />
<br />
You gotta rent a card that can't lose too much value like a 1070, or just bite the bullet and realize you're paying $50-150 a year to game with Nvidia's high end which really isn't that bad. <br />
But I'll take my luck with crossfire scaling. No decent game that I want to play doesn't support CF.<br />
<br />
Nothing will beat 3xP10 in Price/performance ratio though. 1080SLI will be the biggest letdown in performance ever when compared to P10.

<br />
<br />
As long as CF works well on Polaris 10, that can be an appealing option, also have an eye on Vega. Besides, I don't sell my hardware (too much hassle) which is another reason why I prefer to stick with the card/cards that I would like &quot;own&quot; rather than &quot;rent&quot;... Lol

 

[piesquared]

If there was a reference in this paper launch to the 10x performance increase that NV's CEO claimed prior, I missed it. With that in mind I think anything they showed at this event is extremely cherry picked, exaggerated and isolated. Final results from impartial reviewers (are there any left?) will bring the hype crashing back down to earth.

P.S. I don't think CEOs are allowed to outright lie to their shareholders.

 

[Det0x]

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2427-difference-between-gtx-1080-founders-edition-and-reference

Founder's Edition explained.

• Every single instance of &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; can be replaced with the word &#8220;Reference,&#8221; using previous-gen nomenclature. There is not one difference in its market positioning. They are synonymous. NVidia has replaced its &#8220;Reference&#8221; name with &#8220;Founder's Edition.&#8221;

• There are not two GTX 1080 models made by nVidia. Only the &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; exists; there is not a cheaper card made by nVidia than the $700 Founder's Edition, which ships first.

• Just to be clear: nVidia is making one official GTX 1080 and one official GTX 1070 model.

• The &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; is not specially binned.

• The &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; is not pre-overclocked.

• This card is not "limited edition," despite its name that would indicate as much, and will run production through the life of the GTX 1080 product line.

There you have it.. If you want a card at "launch" you have to pay 700$ for a stock reference card.

Or you can wait 1-2 months to buy a aftermarket one for 600$

Genuius Nvidia pr marketing :thumbsup:

 

[tential]

<br />
<br />
As long as CF works well on Polaris 10, that can be an appealing option, also have an eye on Vega. Besides, I don't sell my hardware (too much hassle) which is another reason why I prefer to stick with the card/cards that I would like &quot;own&quot; rather than &quot;rent&quot;... Lol

Then Vega 10 is the way to go. I mean, it's a different architecture than Polaris 10. I don't think AMD would slap HBM2 onto Polaris 10 and call it Vega 10. No offense to AMD, but they just aren't clever enough to do that and thus make us all wait for a new high end card, only to find out it's just Big Polaris 10 with HBM2.
If it was, trust me, Nvidia would have done this ages ago and started calling their mid/low end and high end different architectures if they thought they could make more money.

I think Vega 10's performance is what will have people going wild.

 

[tential]

• Every single instance of &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; can be replaced with the word &#8220;Reference,&#8221; using previous-gen nomenclature. There is not one difference in its market positioning. They are synonymous. NVidia has replaced its &#8220;Reference&#8221; name with &#8220;Founder's Edition.&#8221;

• There are not two GTX 1080 models made by nVidia. Only the &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; exists; there is not a cheaper card made by nVidia than the $700 Founder's Edition, which ships first.

• Just to be clear: nVidia is making one official GTX 1080 and one official GTX 1070 model.

• The &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; is not specially binned.

• The &#8220;Founder's Edition&#8221; is not pre-overclocked.

• This card is not "limited edition," despite its name that would indicate as much, and will run production through the life of the GTX 1080 product line.

There you have it.. If you want a card at "launch" you have to pay 700$ for a stock reference card.

Or you can wait 1-2 months to buy a aftermarket one for 600$

Genuius Nvidia pr marketing :thumbsup:

I was going to post this here too I just saw that. Nvidia Marketing man, I hope they pay those guys enough. They run that company.

The best part will be when the high OC 980Ti is on par with the reference 1080, but in a Gameworks game the 1080 shows a 30-40% performance boost over the 980Ti. I honestly cant wait to see what Nvidia does with Gameworks, Pascal and Maxwell. So much fun!

 

[maddie]

Yes, I know the difference. I don't, however, know what cooler each company is using. As long as it works and doesn't scream, I don't really care all that much. Clearly I should've done more research before buying what I did.



Even if the cards didn't die, they used a ridiculous amount of power and made far too much noise. I could've gone and bought a new one, but unless a 3rd party card somehow cuts 100 watts off the TDP it'd still basically be an electric heater. I bought a GTX 970 ~18 months ago for $298. I'm perfectly happy with it, and in the end that's all that really matters to me.

This is what I meant.

Every company used the same cooler if it was a reference card. Gigabyte, Sapphire, XFX, etc. The exact same cooler for all, with the same noise, heat, etc characteristics for all of the cards. Loud, hot and throttled.

The aftermarket cards had the individual companies using their custom designs allowing differentiation between them. These cards were much cooler and quieter.

 

[piesquared]

I was going to post this here too I just saw that. Nvidia Marketing man, I hope they pay those guys enough. They run that company.

The best part will be when the high OC 980Ti is on par with the reference 1080, but in a Gameworks game the 1080 shows a 30-40% performance boost over the 980Ti. I honestly cant wait to see what Nvidia does with Gameworks, Pascal and Maxwell. So much fun!

There's nothing special about it at all. It doesn't require anything but greed and a willingness to cut your AIB partners' legs off at the knees.

 

[Lepton87]

This is actually terrible If 1080 is only 25% faster than the reference 980Ti then it makes it barely any faster then my aftermarket 980Ti which I unfortunately burned.(My 980Ti is itself about 20% faster then stock 980Ti) I had a leak in the WC. When is the real GPU launching? (I mean GP200 or the big die from AMD whichever is first)

 

[tential]

There's nothing special about it at all. It doesn't require anything but greed and a willingness to cut your AIB partners' legs off at the knees.

Nvidia has directly sold cards before letting AIBs sell. Only difference is, this time, they're charging $100 more for the privilege to do so.

They're also launching 4 days before AMD even announces Polaris... Looks like Nvidia is looking for another year of record profits.

 

[Head1985]

I hope we will see real prices in review!!!
700USD for 1080 and 450USD for 1070.Because they will be reviewed those reference/founders editions.
It looks like NV trying manipulate reviews-send 700/450cards and it will be reviewed as 599/380USD cards.

 

[Lepton87]

I really hate that midrange crap we are getting instead of GP200. I would even pay 1K$ or even more just give me the real deal not midrange crap.

 

[Timmah!]

• Every single instance of “Founder's Edition” can be replaced with the word “Reference,” using previous-gen nomenclature. There is not one difference in its market positioning. They are synonymous. NVidia has replaced its “Reference” name with “Founder's Edition.”

• There are not two GTX 1080 models made by nVidia. Only the “Founder's Edition” exists; there is not a cheaper card made by nVidia than the $700 Founder's Edition, which ships first.

• Just to be clear: nVidia is making one official GTX 1080 and one official GTX 1070 model.

• The “Founder's Edition” is not specially binned.

• The “Founder's Edition” is not pre-overclocked.

• This card is not "limited edition," despite its name that would indicate as much, and will run production through the life of the GTX 1080 product line.

There you have it.. If you want a card at "launch" you have to pay 700$ for a stock reference card.

Or you can wait 1-2 months to buy a aftermarket one for 600$

Genuius Nvidia pr marketing :thumbsup:

Not that it means something, but from the same article:

There is one card from nVidia, as usual. There is no non-Founder's Edition card directly sold by nVidia, but there will be AIB cards shortly after the May 27 launch date.

I dont think "shortly" means 1-2 months? It may very well be, but from the article i was more under impression Nvidia is aware that AIBs sell their non-ref OCed editions for higher price than MSRP anyway, in case of the hybrid cooled more than 150 USD/Euros higher, so they decided to slap higher pricetag on their reference version too - reason for that being aluminium shroud and stuff like that.

 

[piesquared]

Nvidia has directly sold cards before letting AIBs sell. Only difference is, this time, they're charging $100 more for the privilege to do so.

They're also launching 4 days before AMD even announces Polaris... Looks like Nvidia is looking for another year of record profits.

Ha. Of course they are, they'll need to get as many out the door as possible before Polaris drops and lowers the demand. I'd imagine that AMD will drop some hints before the limited edition launch of Pascal. I'd like to see them come out and say something like "we were expecting more from Pascal".

 

[tential]

Ha. Of course they are, they'll need to get as many out the door as possible before Polaris drops and lowers the demand. I'd imagine that AMD will drop some hints before the limited edition launch of Pascal. I'd like to see them come out and say something like "we were expecting more from Pascal".

If it'd been me, I'd already been on twitter saying things like
"Wow, $450 for a 1070? I wonder how many Polaris cards you can get for that?"
"1080SLI, I wonder if that will beat P10 CF.....?
"$1400 for 1080SLI? You can get a whole PC with Polaris 10 Crossfire for cheaper. Did I mention it's faster?"
"Pascal... 20% performance boost over the 980ti reference card? Did Nvidia seriously release the 980Ti overclocked and call it Pascal? And then give you the privilege of paying $700 for it?"

etc. etc.

 

[piesquared]

If it'd been me, I'd already been on twitter saying things like
"Wow, $450 for a 1070? I wonder how many Polaris cards you can get for that?"
"1080SLI, I wonder if that will beat P10 CF.....?
"$1400 for 1080SLI? You can get a whole PC with Polaris 10 Crossfire for cheaper. Did I mention it's faster?"
"Pascal... 20% performance boost over the 980ti reference card? Did Nvidia seriously release the 980Ti overclocked and call it Pascal? And then give you the privilege of paying $700 for it?"

etc. etc.

But there's no hurry, nothing is on sale yet. The ball is in AMD's court, they'll use it to their advantage.

 

[tential]

But there's no hurry, nothing is on sale yet. The ball is in AMD's court, they'll use it to their advantage.

I have 0 faith in AMD's marketing team. I'd honestly hire a room of third graders first to market Polaris 10.

I'm not even kidding either, AMD marketing makes me NOT want AMD products when I hear it.

 

[lilltesaito]

I have 0 faith in AMD's marketing team. I'd honestly hire a room of third graders first to market Polaris 10.

I'm not even kidding either, AMD marketing makes me NOT want AMD products when I hear it.

Even if AMD came out and said something, how many would believe it?

 

[railven]

But there's no hurry, nothing is on sale yet. The ball is in AMD's court, they'll use it to their advantage.

I wish I had your optimism. AMD has a history of double dribbling and missing free throws.

NV is going to sell every single card they make. AMD is going to come out, put pressure on price, and then NV will respond and continue to sell their cards.

Early Adopters aren't naive, they know what they're paying for. And they won't care if someone gets it for $100-150 less if they got it 1-2 months earlier.

 

[Silverforce11]

25% over 1733 is 2.2Ghz.

And no you don't know as it requires memory bandwidth as well and you don't know how GDDR5x and the 1080 controller will handle higher frequencies.

Only fools work out OC % based on paper specs.

What's the base boost clocks for 980Ti? What's it's real boost clocks?

Check out all the review sites, the reference 980Ti boosts to 1.2ghz or above. Over 100mhz extra over it's paper specs.

NV GPUs have been doing this since Kepler. Yet I keep seeing stupid comparisons vs paper specs to inflate the OC %.

People think a 980Ti at 1.5ghz is OMG 50% OC!!!

A 1080 that boosts to 1.86ghz, overclocked to 2.1ghz is ~12%. For it to have 25% OC headroom, it would have to be able to reach 2.325ghz.

 

[Paul98]

Completely, I am really hoping that the process AMD is using can hit high clocks along with good increase in performance from the architecture.