Anybody else unimpressed with new midrange Nvidia GPUs, and much higher MSRP?

[Arachnotronic]

So you take it that cards at a press conference for invited reviewers = good retail volume?

Silverforce11, with all due respect, I think you should wait for the launch dates before concluding either way about volume availability. It takes time to build up a lot of stock to support a good, high volume retail launch.

Remember, NVIDIA has now totally obsoleted the Maxwell series with its Pascal announcements. NVIDIA is fine because I am sure Maxwell went EOL and they are getting revenue from shipments of GP104 chips to AIB partners, but those AIB partners will suffer if they can't deliver boards to their customers at/near launch day to anybody who wants to shell out for them. Messing with the AIB partners' businesses and being an unreliable supplier is not the way to make friends.

 

[Silverforce11]

so when you really think about it, why would nvidia be lying so blatantly? maybe they are possibly feeling threatened by AMD?

It's not a lie. Founders Edition is early access reference cards for a nice premium to Kickstart JHH's bonus.

It's just differently worded.

 

[Silverforce11]

Silverforce11, with all due respect, I think you should wait for the launch dates before concluding either way about volume availability. It takes time to build up a lot of stock to support a good, high volume retail launch.

Remember, NVIDIA has now totally obsoleted the Maxwell series with its Pascal announcements. NVIDIA is fine because I am sure Maxwell went EOL and they are getting revenue from shipments of GP104 chips to AIB partners, but those AIB partners will suffer if they can't deliver boards to their customers at/near launch day to anybody who wants to shell out for them. Messing with the AIB partners' businesses and being an unreliable supplier is not the way to make friends.

Right.

If on launch and it's all sold out, what is the conclusion.

1. Low volume
2. Incredible demand

We won't know the truth until the next quarter shipment reports.

This situation happened recently, Fury X on launch was all sold out everywhere. Some claim it was high demand, I saw it for what it was, low volume. Do you know why I thought that way then? Because Amkor said so. They did not even ramp up their TSV/stacking to volume, it was operating in QA mode.

What is the current situation with GP104?

QA chips hot off the press from TSMC in April.
QA GDDR5X straight from Micron sampling.

AIBs only received GP104 samples in late April. The time-frame for QA if everything goes right to retail availability = a few months at the least.

Something to think about, and why jacking up early access reference 1080 and 1070 makes a lot of sense for NV.

 

[renderstate]

Lol, you are too easy man.

Nano was called by some tech press for being a paper launch, when it was briefed to journalist in LATE AUGUST 2015 with review samples given out.

It was available in retail on September 10th, 2015.

Who cares about Nano? We are talking about Pascal. So, enlighten us, why is NVIDIA going to kill their sales mid-range up just to paper launch Pascal? Because they are worried about Polaris?

 

[Silverforce11]

Who cares about Nano? We are talking about Pascal.

Who cares about tech journalism standards?

A paper launch is a paper launch. Accept it and get over it but don't deny it.

 

[96Firebird]

Lol, you are too easy man.

Nano was called by some tech press for being a paper launch, when it was briefed to journalist in LATE AUGUST 2015 with review samples given out.

It was available in retail on September 10th, 2015.

Nano was first announced by AMD on June 16th.

 

[Silverforce11]

Nano was first announced by AMD on June 16th.

Polaris was first announced at the start of this year. So what?

AMD launched Nano with invited tech journalists in late August where they gave review samples away. ~2 weeks later, it was in retail. Despite this, some tech press called it a paper launch.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Right.

If on launch and it's all sold out, what is the conclusion.

1. Low volume
2. Incredible demand

We won't know the truth until the next quarter shipment reports.

This situation happened recently, Fury X on launch was all sold out everywhere. Some claim it was high demand, I saw it for what it was, low volume. Do you know why I thought that way then? Because Amkor said so. They did not even ramp up their TSV/stacking to volume, it was operating in QA mode.

What is the current situation with GP104?

QA chips hot off the press from TSMC in April.
QA GDDR5X straight from Micron sampling.

AIBs only received GP104 samples in late April. The time-frame for QA if everything goes right to retail availability = a few months at the least.

Something to think about, and why jacking up early access reference 1080 and 1070 makes a lot of sense for NV.

Silverforce11,

The demand for Maxwell GPUs has been solid, and Pascal offers unequivocally better performance per dollar (assuming GTX 1070 is on par with/faster than 980 Ti). I think demand should only go up relative to where Maxwell demand was.

Remember, NVIDIA is going to need to shift a substantial portion of its volume over to Pascal in order to not see a precipitous falling off in revenue. And, again, NVIDIA can't afford to hurt its AIB partners -- their "loyalty" is critical given the distribution method of these products (AIB in the retail channel, pre-built systems often by those same AIBs, etc.) I don't think this will be a "paper launch" as you insinuate, but we shall see.

Regardless, I will be ready with my finger on the trigger to make sure I secure at least two of these beauties on launch day. Integrated GPUs stink.

 

[Silverforce11]

Leak bench of 1080. DX12 Ashes of Singularity:

http://www.ashesofthesingularity.co...-details/3903fe67-0149-4f65-a903-2720d1264781

1440p. ~47 FPS avg.

 

[R0H1T]

Who cares about Nano? We are talking about Pascal. So, enlighten us, why is NVIDIA going to kill their sales mid-range up just to paper launch Pascal? Because they are worried about Polaris?

Maybe cause the margins on Pascal are sweeter than you think, more importantly people aren't buying the 970 in droves like they did last year! In fact 390 & 390x are selling better, in part due to DX12, & some people are realizing the same con (Kepler<Maxwell<Pascal) is not what they're falling for, second time in a row.

P.S. forgot about Polaris, the obvious joker of the pack

 

[sam_816]

If they can guarantee 25% OC, why don't they clock them higher out of the box??

I think that's what founder's edition cards will be. I mean how much %age of chips r (as they put it) highly OCable? 5-10% or 50-60%?(someone help me understand pls) If 5-10% then they must have produced a lot of chips already to cherry-pick the ones for founders edition cards coz there will be high demand for them.

 

[EliteRetard]

With Nvidia playing the screw customer game, how would it go if AMD gave discounts to early adopters instead?

Here's our top Polaris card, roughly same speed as a 1070, but retails for $100 less at $350. Sign up now and you can have the card for $300 and we'll ship it to you as fast as we can (we always have yield problems). 30 days from now the card goes retail and no more discounts to $300.

 

[beginner99]

Leak bench of 1080. DX12 Ashes of Singularity:

http://www.ashesofthesingularity.co...-details/3903fe67-0149-4f65-a903-2720d1264781

1440p. ~47 FPS avg.

On a i7-5930k. That is about 1 FPS faster than Fury X right and pretty much 25% faster than 980Ti. Right?

But not much to take away from this. Either it's a best case scenario due to DX12 improvements on NV side or it's an average case scenario which would mean no real changes were made concerning dx12.

 

[railven]

Reference cards marked up more than 1 month after (June 10th) from the announcement = paper launch by tech standards.

Yeah, you're sort of changing the meaning of a paper launch. The cards haven't been reviewed, the specs aren't even fully disclosed.

If you're going to argue NV announcing their cards and demoing em is a paper launch, AMD paper launched Polaris back in February during CES.

 

[tential]

Are we going to see normal 1070/1080's out of stock before the Founder's Editions? Not because the Founder's Edition is limited in stock, but rather that there are a lot more Founder's Editions than normal cards in the first place! Shareholders are applauding I am sure.

We shall see when reviews are up if there is an overclocking advantage for the FE. If every card can hit 2+ GHz and performance scales well, then the 1080 will be a very tempting card for quite some time! I really hope prices go down for the aftermarket versions. Imagine if EVGA sells their highest end model with the Founders tax. People will still buy them simply because they are the fastest.

I am going to be patient for the aftermarket versions. If we somehow get a GDDR5X version of the 1070 down the road, I may buy one! I simply won't be buying another GDDR5 card when Hawaii has performed far above my expectations.

If we see a real X60 card from Nvidia with GDDR5X for some peculiar reason, then it may put Polaris to shame. I really hope AMD releases something to keep prices lower. The fact that the 1080 will be the performance king for the next year really bums me out if it remains a $600+ card for this long. The 7970 and 680 prices left me with the same feeling. Once the big cards were released like the 780 and 290, then it made sense to pay the small price premium for their much better longevity.

For me the 1070 feels like what the 1060 ti should be. The only interesting card here is the 1080 for its GDDR5X. I really do think that the extra memory bandwidth over the 1070 will make a big performance gap over the years. I'd be happy with a 6 GB GDDR5X 1070 with the slightly cut down shader count it usually has compared to the 1080.

I'm hoping AMD releases a 7870XT-esque card with GDDR5X. It should be competitive with a 1070, but at a much more reasonable price. Personally, I'm waiting for 2017 for the big GPU's to come. Maybe a 4k 120hz monitor being released around then too...

The release is Founders Edition only, directly from Nvidia. It's just Nvidia's new "reference" name lol.

 

[tential]

Right.

If on launch and it's all sold out, what is the conclusion.

1. Low volume
2. Incredible demand

We won't know the truth until the next quarter shipment reports.

This situation happened recently, Fury X on launch was all sold out everywhere. Some claim it was high demand, I saw it for what it was, low volume. Do you know why I thought that way then? Because Amkor said so. They did not even ramp up their TSV/stacking to volume, it was operating in QA mode.

What is the current situation with GP104?

QA chips hot off the press from TSMC in April.
QA GDDR5X straight from Micron sampling.

AIBs only received GP104 samples in late April. The time-frame for QA if everything goes right to retail availability = a few months at the least.

Something to think about, and why jacking up early access reference 1080 and 1070 makes a lot of sense for NV.

You seem to be caught up on three things:
1. Paper Launch
2. 1070/1080 don't directly compete with P10, therefore P10 is safe.
3. Volume

Let me make this clear. None of this matters.
It's all about how you spin it, and Nvidia is the spin Master.

1. Paper Launch
AMD does this too. I can't believe this is even a talking point, Next.
2. 1070/1080 don't directly compete with P10
1070/1080 are so great people will wait for the 1060ti over just buying P10 because it's a "good value". If people are wi lling to wait for P10, they'll wait for their 1060Ti, to go Nvidia with all their friends.
3. Volume
Too many chips? Nvidia makes too much money.
Too few chips? Nvidia spins it like the demand for Pascal is so insane, people are chopping off their left hands for Pascal. Left hands!!!!!! Just wait for more stock, or wait for our 1060ti.

Nvidia marketing will lock this up.

You haven't even seen Gameworks 2.0 Pascal X rated Edition yet. Gameworks Volta 9000 will literally be unstoppable.

 

[railven]

The release is Founders Edition only, directly from Nvidia. It's just Nvidia's new "reference" name lol.

Outside of slapping a founder's edition, I recall store versions of NV cards also cost more.

I wish I could get a time shot, but the first NV branded card I saw at best buy was the GTX 460, I believe, and it was going for $50 over MSRP because it was a "Best Buy" exclusive or some nonsense.

AH, here you go:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010...etail_direct_sales_at_best_buy/2#.VzAVivkrIuU

Cost

The cards that we bought today here in North Texas were priced fairly high compared to some others on the shelf. The GTX 460 was $299, the same price as PNY, but $100 higher than Galaxy. The GTX 450 was $199, which was $5 higher than Galaxy and at the same price as the PNY card. I would say that PNY has to be somewhat worried about NVIDIA's pricing strategy.

This was a 1GB GTX 460, and it's MSRP was $230 at launch.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king

EDIT:
And here it is again with the GTX 970:

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/2n64zo/best_buy_is_now_carrying_stock_970s_with

GTX 970 NV branded
Best Buy price $380
MSRP: $330

 

[3DVagabond]

Yeah... it really doesn't, does it? :\ In what, maybe 2 games it's about the same in performance? In all the rest the TI beats, if not crushes, the 390. Not that you'd expect it to, it's technically inferior and half the price.

How do you define "technically inferior"? Do you mean smaller? Less shaders? Because if you mean technically as in architecturally, then I would have to disagree. Just because Hawaii is an older design it still seems to be more advanced "technically".

 

[brag.yondide]

Personally, I think AMD's marketing is just fine. They do great things with gamers and gamers' events. They may not buy off reviewers and send out forum warriors to do their astroturfing, but i'm happy to support a company that takes the high road. I don't need a company to spoon feed me marketing, i'm perfectly capable of doing my research and come to my own conclusion. YMMV

Me too.
However, I venture that the majority of buyers have little to no technical or industry knowledge, and only have NVidia and AMD marketing to guide them. Guess who wins!

 

[Stuka87]

The people claiming that 1080's are "already available in large quantities" simply because they had enough to give to reviewers cracks me up. 1000 cards does not constitute "large quantities". That is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. The fact that Micron has said that GDDR5X is not ramping up until Q3 alone tells us that quantities are going to be low.

 

[3DVagabond]

I haven't bought a reference card since the GTX 260. Don't plan on starting now. Maybe the holiday season for an upgrade. There should be a number third party solutions by then.

^This. Unless you are going to put blocks on it, why buy a reference card when aftermarket are superior?

 

[tential]

Outside of slapping a founder's edition, I recall store versions of NV cards also cost more.

I wish I could get a time shot, but the first NV branded card I saw at best buy was the GTX 460, I believe, and it was going for $50 over MSRP because it was a "Best Buy" exclusive or some nonsense.

AH, here you go:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010...etail_direct_sales_at_best_buy/2#.VzAVivkrIuU



This was a 1GB GTX 460, and it's MSRP was $230 at launch.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king

EDIT:
And here it is again with the GTX 970:

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/2n64zo/best_buy_is_now_carrying_stock_970s_with

GTX 970 NV branded
Best Buy price $380
MSRP: $330

Best Buy Founders Edition GTX 1080 Price: $800
I hear you even become a founder of Best Buy if you get it....
Ya, that's why I never buy a card in store though prices are insane.

It's such a bad deal but I can't blame people for buying it when AMD has no alternative. I mean, I have a ton of luxury products I spent more than I should have on. Paying a massive premium for the fastest card out? After Titan series launch, it should surprise no one that people are willing to do this.

Launching first was CRUCIAL for AMD, but we already have a date set for 1080 launch, 1070 launch, as well as reviews. We just have days of Nvidia hype leading up to P10 launch...

Just wait through review sites get their 1080s to run through the Nvidia Reviewers guide. I feel like people forget all the tactics Nvidia has at their disposal and EVERY year Nvidia 1ups themselves. I mean, they even believe they're now a fan of Open Source!

 

[Silverforce11]

The people claiming that 1080's are "already available in large quantities" simply because they had enough to give to reviewers cracks me up. 1000 cards does not constitute "large quantities". That is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. The fact that Micron has said that GDDR5X is not ramping up until Q3 alone tells us that quantities are going to be low.

Didn't you hear?

Micron is lying to spread misinformation. The truth is JHH invented a time machine in his garage (Powered by the Deep Learning AI and Quantum Simulation of P100 Teslas), he came back from the future, with a truckload of GDDR5X and lots more GP104 dies produced from TSMC stamped in May, June and July...

@tential

Relax man. As for anyone else not happy with the prices, wait and see what Polaris has to offer and make up your minds. It's not as if you can go out and buy a 1070 today.

You just don't know when to stop thread crapping do you? It's going to be a down hill slope for you if this continues. I am not putting up with it any longer.

-Rvenger

 

[tential]

Didn't you hear?

Micron is lying to spread misinformation. The truth is JHH invented a time machine in his garage (Powered by the Deep Learning AI and Quantum Simulation of P100 Teslas), he came back from the future, with a truckload of GDDR5X and lots more GP104 dies produced from TSMC stamped in May, June and July...

@tential

Relax man. As for anyone else not happy with the prices, wait and see what Polaris has to offer and make up your minds. It's not as if you can go out and buy a 1070 today.

Very calm. I'm just saying the concerns you've brought up against Pascal will have 0 effect on Pascal sales. This is just another buttery smooth Nvidia launch with everything going just as an intelligent company would do. One needs to only wait and see for the performance/prices.

It's obvious what consumers will do and how this will play out however.

 

[Magee_MC]

A paper lunch would hurt NVIDIA sales and you only do it when sales are going badly because you have nothing to lose abs you want to raise awareness about your new product.

Guess who had to show their new gadget 6+ months before putting it on the market? Right, it's not NVIDIA.

If they announced the new product is because their are stupid or because they know they can fulfill demand just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In AMD's case, they don't have anything competitive to the 750Ti or 950, so they really don't have any sales to harm and they definitely did raise awareness on Polaris 11.