Anybody find this amazing regarding battleships?

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Feb 25, 2011
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And they decided to go with some new rocket/shell hybrid of some sort and found out that it was going to cost something like $2B to supply a single ship with a full supply so they axed it. Of course the guns were designed to fire that specific round so now they don't have any long-range guns at the moment.
Yup. But the USN wanted to get rid of the battleships really bad. So they went along with the Springfield Monorail.

Which is honestly kinda silly, since the much more modern 5" guns on existing DDGs have a 10+ mile range, are very accurate, and will absolutely schmere anything it hits. It's not all that inferior to the big old guns on the battleships.

Kinda baffles me that they didn't cram one onto the LCS either. At least the Freedom class probably have enough room.
 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
6,760
440
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Battleships were amazing. I've seen the Missouri fire her guns. It was incredible.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
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FWIW, putting a shell on something is a lot cheaper than flying a plane to drop a bomb. And faster, too.

That's not even close to being true in the real world. If you have a battleship and a carrier on station then yeah, it's cheaper to fire a couple of shells at a single target than it is to launch a plane. But the carrier is mutli-role and does a lot of different things and if you want to project power you need the carrier and you need it every day. So dropping that bomb is just another role for a weapon you have to have anyway. The battleship on the other hand is a dinosaur with no real mission, so you're paying to operate it, staff it and maintain it so you can use it 20 minutes every other year. What's the REAL cost of putting that shell on the target? It's way cheaper in the long run to drop a bomb or bombard with smaller ships from shorter range.

Battleships were amazing. I've seen the Missouri fire her guns. It was incredible.

Yep, real spectacle. The power of 9 16" guns going off together is amazing. But if you're an enemy sitting in a bunker 20 miles away would you rather have the Missouri fire a broadside at you that might hit and moght miss by 5 miles or a single unimpressive looking missile flown precisely up your ass?
 
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louis redfoot

Senior member
Feb 2, 2017
289
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battleships might be useful to a developing nation, shelling random rebels or pirates, but the technology is obsolete.

for a first world nuclear power, the main threat is a nuclear icbm. and that can only be countered by an anti-icbm missile (or another nuclear icbm). a submarine can serve a dual purpose: 1) swat down an icbm 2) provide the counter-strike. aircraft carriers are useful too, but with missile technology the way it is, in a first world conflict they can be easily sunk by missiles or torpedoes.

anyway, i'm just a nasa contractor
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
That's not even close to being true in the real world. If you have a battleship and a carrier on station then yeah, it's cheaper to fire a couple of shells at a single target than it is to launch a plane. But the carrier is mutli-role and does a lot of different things and if you want to project power you need the carrier and you need it every day. So dropping that bomb is just another role for a weapon you have to have anyway. The battleship on the other hand is a dinosaur with no real mission, so you're paying to operate it, staff it and maintain it so you can use it 20 minutes every other year. What's the REAL cost of putting that shell on the target? It's way cheaper in the long run to drop a bomb or bombard with smaller ships from shorter range.



Yep, real spectacle. The power of 9 16" guns going off together is amazing. But if you're an enemy sitting in a bunker 20 miles away would you rather have the Missouri fire a broadside at you that might hit and moght miss by 5 miles or a single unimpressive looking missile flown precisely up your ass?

I thought this argument ended on December 7, 1941 when the brown shoe Navy was all that was left in the Pacific. Then again coming from the brown shoe side I may be a bit biased.
 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,616
3,470
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Congress and Reagan. They were retired after Vietnam, until Reagan started his buildup and they were dug out of mothballs. Retired again after GW1, but Congress kept demanding they be kept in ready-reserve, etc. It was only a few years ago that they got put away for good.

FWIW, putting a shell on something is a lot cheaper than flying a plane to drop a bomb. And faster, too. But you have to be within range, and frankly, the old supplies of ammunition and powder for the old guns was left over from WWII and was probably more dangerous to the ships themselves than to the enemy.

And that's partly what got all those guys on the Iowa killed (along with using more powder than what the guns were designed for in the first place). Just a stupid, stupid idea bringing them back.
 
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Feb 25, 2011
16,823
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That's not even close to being true in the real world. If you have a battleship and a carrier on station then yeah, it's cheaper to fire a couple of shells at a single target than it is to launch a plane. But the carrier is mutli-role and does a lot of different things and if you want to project power you need the carrier and you need it every day. So dropping that bomb is just another role for a weapon you have to have anyway. The battleship on the other hand is a dinosaur with no real mission, so you're paying to operate it, staff it and maintain it so you can use it 20 minutes every other year. What's the REAL cost of putting that shell on the target? It's way cheaper in the long run to drop a bomb or bombard with smaller ships from shorter range.

I addressed a lot of that in my other posts - the BBs had to go.

But, counterpoint - a few years back in Libya, NATO basically ran out of bombs. There's a place for naval artillery even if the old battleships outlived their usefulness.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,622
2,189
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good luck hitting anything at that distance, when your flight time is 1 minute.
also, the Yamato was scary AF. The guns were heavier than the Iowa and they had longer range, the armor was ridiculous and the construction was very modern. It's a miracle they didn't turn the tide of the war.
 
Feb 25, 2011
16,823
1,493
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good luck hitting anything at that distance, when your flight time is 1 minute.
also, the Yamato was scary AF. The guns were heavier than the Iowa and they had longer range, the armor was ridiculous and the construction was very modern. It's a miracle they didn't turn the tide of the war.

There were only two of them, and like the Bismarck/Tirpitz, they were obsolete when they were launched. They just didn't know it yet.

 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
106
battleships might be useful to a developing nation, shelling random rebels or pirates, but the technology is obsolete.

for a first world nuclear power, the main threat is a nuclear icbm. and that can only be countered by an anti-icbm missile (or another nuclear icbm). a submarine can serve a dual purpose: 1) swat down an icbm 2) provide the counter-strike. aircraft carriers are useful too, but with missile technology the way it is, in a first world conflict they can be easily sunk by missiles or torpedoes.

anyway, i'm just a nasa contractor

Submarines do not have ABM (anti-ballistic missile) capability.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
good luck hitting anything at that distance, when your flight time is 1 minute.
also, the Yamato was scary AF. The guns were heavier than the Iowa and they had longer range, the armor was ridiculous and the construction was very modern. It's a miracle they didn't turn the tide of the war.

While the range was longer that doesn't mean its as effective at actually hitting a target. If both the Yamato and Iowa class battleships engaged its likely both US and IJN ships would close which would bring the Yamato into the range where the Iowa could pierce their armor (apart for turret faceplates). Their shells also had a more specific incoming angle for effectiveness and their shells were more geared towards underwater hits so, while under certain situations they would be more effective, the US went with a shell that was more generally effective so there are a fair number of scenarios where the Iowa's shells would be comparable in effectiveness.

All that said, and if we leave airpower aside, its unlikely that the Yamato and a single Iowa class battleship would ever face off. With the speed advantage of the more numerous Iowa class ships they would likely be able to choose engagement on their terms and and gather additional battleships.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
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In 1983 Reagan bought the battleship New Jersey to the Mid East it slaughtered some 1.5k Lebanese civilians. That was the height of Reagan's Cut and Run foreign policy.
 
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