Anybody here have a wife that gave birth naturally? Why did you/she do it?

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: princess ida
I'm female and I have four kids.

To the OP: Hey, mister doctor, childbirth has been happening without medical intervention since - well, since the beginning of humans. Is the pain fun? Heck no. But pain killers are something you have to recover from. In addition to recovering from the birth itself. Painkillers also affect breastfeeding the newborn.

There's nothing heroic about natural childbirth. It's just - well, natural, the way women have been giving birth for thousands of years. All four of mine were natural. I figured I'd wait until it was really awful before asking for painkillers, but I was pushing the baby out when it got that bad. My oldest daughter has two kids and one more due sometime this week. The first two were water births. Relaxing in water is a pretty good painkiller. Due to the insurance stupidity, the only way she can have a water delivery this time is to do it at home without help - and she's not stupid.

I'm really glad that medical science can work wonders on difficult cases. And yes, nothing wrong with painkillers for people who truly want them. As far as I'm concerned, anyone giving birth should get whatever they ask for. I have great admiration for MD's who succeed with difficult cases.

My local hospital has a FORTY PERCENT c-section rate. When a c-section is lifesaving, it's awesome. But forty percent of upscale suburban moms can't possibly need surgery just to get a baby out.

With the home water births, were you ever concerned that something might go wrong and medical support wouldn't be immediately at hand? Just seems like many women are so concerned about the experience of childbirth and how they imagine it should go that they're not putting themselves in the safest situation possible and doing what's best for them and their baby.

Sure women have been having natural child birth since the begnning, but they have also been doing at ridiculous rates because of it.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: RKS

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: RKS

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: RKS
For our second I think the epidural got there 2 mintes before the crowning. My wife was asking the nurse to hurry the hell up.

they gave her an epi that far into having contractions? jesus, my ex wasnt even very far dilated and they said it was too late to give her the epidural. damn.

I know they had the stirrups out right after the epi nurse got there and did something. Maybe it wasn't a full epidural? The second was a very quick labor.

Did they stick something in her back? If they didnt, it wasnt an epidural...

Yes, they stuck something in her back and they baby was out not too much later.

Wow, i guess #2 really just shot out of there

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: princess ida
I'm female and I have four kids.

To the OP: Hey, mister doctor, childbirth has been happening without medical intervention since - well, since the beginning of humans. Is the pain fun? Heck no. But pain killers are something you have to recover from. In addition to recovering from the birth itself. Painkillers also affect breastfeeding the newborn.

There's nothing heroic about natural childbirth. It's just - well, natural, the way women have been giving birth for thousands of years. All four of mine were natural. I figured I'd wait until it was really awful before asking for painkillers, but I was pushing the baby out when it got that bad. My oldest daughter has two kids and one more due sometime this week. The first two were water births. Relaxing in water is a pretty good painkiller. Due to the insurance stupidity, the only way she can have a water delivery this time is to do it at home without help - and she's not stupid.

I'm really glad that medical science can work wonders on difficult cases. And yes, nothing wrong with painkillers for people who truly want them. As far as I'm concerned, anyone giving birth should get whatever they ask for. I have great admiration for MD's who succeed with difficult cases.

My local hospital has a FORTY PERCENT c-section rate. When a c-section is lifesaving, it's awesome. But forty percent of upscale suburban moms can't possibly need surgery just to get a baby out.

Epidural did not affect breastfeeding at all and there were no recovery issues either. The episiotomy was the most invasive aspect of the delivery and required minor recovery.

 

[Dirigible]

My wife gave birth to our two sons at home without medication of any sort. Largely because of mistrust of doctors. A belief that doctors like you, OP:
**interfere too much and too often (see princess ida's 40% c-section rate comment, above)
**are arrogant and don't listen to your patients, but instead think you know it all
**are too keen to use your skills and equipment instead of standing by doing little and letting things progress naturally
**are afraid of getting sued if you don't get involved with medication/c-section/other so are too quick on the draw

Also because:
**she believes that drugs do more harm than good in that they interfere with the woman's ability to give birth.
**the hospital is an inhospitable environment set up for the ease and convenience of doctors and nurses, but adds stress and discomfort to her, making relaxing and giving birth more difficult. Home is a comfortable nest, which makes everything easier for her.

My wife had this in mind as long as I've known her. No way would she ever give birth in a hospital unless there were some kind of complication that made it unavoidable.

 

[JS80]

I would question my wife's sanity if she did it naturally.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Dirigible
My wife gave birth to our two sons at home without medication of any sort. Largely because of mistrust of doctors. A belief that doctors like you, OP:
**interfere too much and too often (see princess ida's 40% c-section rate comment, above)
**are arrogant and don't listen to your patients, but instead think you know it all
**are too keen to use your skills and equipment instead of standing by doing little and letting things progress naturally
**are afraid of getting sued if you don't get involved with medication/c-section/other so are too quick on the draw

Also because:
**she believes that drugs do more harm than good in that they interfere with the woman's ability to give birth.
**the hospital is an inhospitable environment set up for the ease and convenience of doctors and nurses, but adds stress and discomfort to her, making relaxing and giving birth more difficult. Home is a comfortable nest, which makes everything easier for her.

My wife had this in mind as long as I've known her. No way would she ever give birth in a hospital unless there were some kind of complication that made it unavoidable.

Well we certainly listen to patients and honor all their wishes unless there clear medical indication that some kind of intervention is necessary, even then its a really elaborate process and we haev to get the patients permission for anything we do, even a c-section. Every delivery i've watched we've let the woman progress naturally until the baby is for sure stuck and/or showing fetal distress on monitors and keep the woman informed at all times. Of course we can roll the dice and just let things play out naturally but most studies show that its better to intervene.

And I realize its a very personal process but who knows more about giving birth, a MD/nurse team that delivers hundreds per year or parents who avg 2ish at most

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Dirigible
My wife gave birth to our two sons at home without medication of any sort. Largely because of mistrust of doctors. A belief that doctors like you, OP:
**interfere too much and too often (see princess ida's 40% c-section rate comment, above)
**are arrogant and don't listen to your patients, but instead think you know it all
**are too keen to use your skills and equipment instead of standing by doing little and letting things progress naturally
**are afraid of getting sued if you don't get involved with medication/c-section/other so are too quick on the draw

Also because:
**she believes that drugs do more harm than good in that they interfere with the woman's ability to give birth.
**the hospital is an inhospitable environment set up for the ease and convenience of doctors and nurses, but adds stress and discomfort to her, making relaxing and giving birth more difficult. Home is a comfortable nest, which makes everything easier for her.

My wife had this in mind as long as I've known her. No way would she ever give birth in a hospital unless there were some kind of complication that made it unavoidable.

Well we certainly listen to patients and honor all their wishes unless there clear medical indication that some kind of intervention is necessary, even then its a really elaborate process and we haev to get the patients permission for anything we do, even a c-section. Every delivery i've watched we've let the woman progress naturally until the baby is for sure stuck and/or showing fetal distress on monitors and keep the woman informed at all times. Of course we can roll the dice and just let things play out naturally but most studies show that its better to intervene.

And I realize its a very personal process but who knows more about giving birth, a MD/nurse team that delivers hundreds per year or parents who avg 2ish at most

This is exactly the sort of arrogance that turns people like my wife away from doctors and hospitals. You may believe what you say, but if patients/potential patients don't, you may want to address the issue and make some changes.

The bolded parts show the contradiction that likely turns off a number of patients. You say you will listen, but it sounds like you think you know so much more that you won't actually listen.

I commend you on asking these questions and hope you will be different than most doctors.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Dirigible

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Dirigible
My wife gave birth to our two sons at home without medication of any sort. Largely because of mistrust of doctors. A belief that doctors like you, OP:
**interfere too much and too often (see princess ida's 40% c-section rate comment, above)
**are arrogant and don't listen to your patients, but instead think you know it all
**are too keen to use your skills and equipment instead of standing by doing little and letting things progress naturally
**are afraid of getting sued if you don't get involved with medication/c-section/other so are too quick on the draw

Also because:
**she believes that drugs do more harm than good in that they interfere with the woman's ability to give birth.
**the hospital is an inhospitable environment set up for the ease and convenience of doctors and nurses, but adds stress and discomfort to her, making relaxing and giving birth more difficult. Home is a comfortable nest, which makes everything easier for her.

My wife had this in mind as long as I've known her. No way would she ever give birth in a hospital unless there were some kind of complication that made it unavoidable.

Well we certainly listen to patients and honor all their wishes unless there clear medical indication that some kind of intervention is necessary, even then its a really elaborate process and we haev to get the patients permission for anything we do, even a c-section. Every delivery i've watched we've let the woman progress naturally until the baby is for sure stuck and/or showing fetal distress on monitors and keep the woman informed at all times. Of course we can roll the dice and just let things play out naturally but most studies show that its better to intervene.

And I realize its a very personal process but who knows more about giving birth, a MD/nurse team that delivers hundreds per year or parents who avg 2ish at most

This is exactly the sort of arrogance that turns people like my wife away from doctors and hospitals. You may believe what you say, but if patients/potential patients don't, you may want to address the issue and make some changes.

The bolded parts show the contradiction that likely turns off a number of patients. You say you will listen, but it sounds like you think you know so much more that you won't actually listen.

I commend you on asking these questions and hope you will be different than most doctors.

What we think and what we say are completely different. The patient has full decision making capacity in the hospital, If they dont want a treatment, they dont get the treatment. Simple as that.

And as for the second bolded part, I'm not sure why that's considered arrogance? You can disagree with it but I dont think it's unreasonable for healthcare professionals to think they are more experienced with childbirth than each patient. I mean, am I way off base to think someone who does one thing for a living is likely better at it than someone else who has no experience with it?

 

[WingZero94]

Four Children. No meds on any of them. All natural births. She wants to do what is best for the baby and research has shown that meds can have an effect. Epi could make it so you can't switch positions, which could lead to a C-Section.

Oh and we used a CNM (mid-wife). Wouldn't do it any other way (unless it was high risk).

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
What we think and what we say are completely different. The patient has full decision making capacity in the hospital, If they dont want a treatment, they dont get the treatment. Simple as that.

And as for the second bolded part, I'm not sure why that's considered arrogance? You can disagree with it but I dont think it's unreasonable for healthcare professionals to think they are more experienced with childbirth than each patient. I mean, am I way off base to think someone who does one thing for a living is likely better at it than someone else who has no experience with it?

I'm pointing out a issue as perceived by a patient. You seem more interested in denying there is a problem than doing something about it. If you want patients who are currently avoiding hospital/M.D. care to stop avoiding it, you may want to rethink your stance. Perception can be as important as reality; could be as easy as changing communication styles or something.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Dirigible

Originally posted by: Mo0o
What we think and what we say are completely different. The patient has full decision making capacity in the hospital, If they dont want a treatment, they dont get the treatment. Simple as that.

And as for the second bolded part, I'm not sure why that's considered arrogance? You can disagree with it but I dont think it's unreasonable for healthcare professionals to think they are more experienced with childbirth than each patient. I mean, am I way off base to think someone who does one thing for a living is likely better at it than someone else who has no experience with it?

I'm pointing out a issue as perceived by a patient. You seem more interested in denying there is a problem than doing something about it. If you want patients who are currently avoiding hospital/M.D. care to stop avoiding it, you may want to rethink your stance. Perception can be as important as reality; could be as easy as changing communication styles or something.

I've been denying there's a problem? I'm not sure what you are expecting MD's to do to attract patients to the hospital. I think honoring patient wishes is a good method. Are you talking more about wanting doctors to agree with patient preferences?

 

[rchiu]

2 kids both with epi.

Some people might have enough knowledge to make informed decisions themselves. But for me and my wife, both engineers, we leave it to our doctor (with 20+ years of OB/GYN exp) to decide what's best and that's what she recommended.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Dirigible

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Dirigible
My wife gave birth to our two sons at home without medication of any sort. Largely because of mistrust of doctors. A belief that doctors like you, OP:
**interfere too much and too often (see princess ida's 40% c-section rate comment, above)
**are arrogant and don't listen to your patients, but instead think you know it all
**are too keen to use your skills and equipment instead of standing by doing little and letting things progress naturally
**are afraid of getting sued if you don't get involved with medication/c-section/other so are too quick on the draw

Also because:
**she believes that drugs do more harm than good in that they interfere with the woman's ability to give birth.
**the hospital is an inhospitable environment set up for the ease and convenience of doctors and nurses, but adds stress and discomfort to her, making relaxing and giving birth more difficult. Home is a comfortable nest, which makes everything easier for her.

My wife had this in mind as long as I've known her. No way would she ever give birth in a hospital unless there were some kind of complication that made it unavoidable.

Well we certainly listen to patients and honor all their wishes unless there clear medical indication that some kind of intervention is necessary, even then its a really elaborate process and we haev to get the patients permission for anything we do, even a c-section. Every delivery i've watched we've let the woman progress naturally until the baby is for sure stuck and/or showing fetal distress on monitors and keep the woman informed at all times. Of course we can roll the dice and just let things play out naturally but most studies show that its better to intervene.

And I realize its a very personal process but who knows more about giving birth, a MD/nurse team that delivers hundreds per year or parents who avg 2ish at most

This is exactly the sort of arrogance that turns people like my wife away from doctors and hospitals. You may believe what you say, but if patients/potential patients don't, you may want to address the issue and make some changes.

The bolded parts show the contradiction that likely turns off a number of patients. You say you will listen, but it sounds like you think you know so much more that you won't actually listen.

I commend you on asking these questions and hope you will be different than most doctors.

You can illustrate bias through ignorance, myth, perception etc in the general population over and over. Scientific trials and doctor education take place for a very good reason.

People like you and your wife have every right to make your own choice, as do the patients that Mo0o works with (and I commend him for his respect for their decisions) and I will defend to the death the right for you to make those choices.

That said, you display an absolutely appalling ignorance and bias by accusing him of arrogance when all he is doing is relying on his very justified and well-foundationed medical education and experience. There is no "conspiracy" of doctors to charge you more by forcing you through unnecessary medical procedures.

I deliberately select doctors who listen to my point of view and give me medical fact and allow me to make decisions. It sounds like you and your wife accuse doctors who provide fact of being arrogant and begin to avoid doctors altogether. Not a very rational or good solution.

 

[miniMUNCH]

My wife gave birth to both our sons with no pain med of any kind... our second son was born facing down so my wife was really in a lot a lot of pain but she handled it.

1) My wife is tough as nails... you'd never know it from her demeanor but she crazy tough. I think my wife knew she could do it and wanted to prove to herself that she could do it... a badge of honor so to speak. After the birth of our first son my wife was thinking the second one wound be easier... well it was much rougher for her and we didn't know why until the end (baby coming out facing down causes really intense and sustained labor pain). I could tell my wife was really in pain but she just pushed through it all the harder. When our second son was out the doctor and nurses were exchanging looks with one another that were basically, "Damn! She is fucking tough!"

2) My wife hates needles and was leery of getting an epidural... epidurals can cause lasting damage if done incorrectly or something simply goes a little wrong. we know women who have lasting back problems as a result of a bad epidural. I will say this though... I think my wife would get an epidural if she knew ahead of time that she was gonna have to another back labor birth.

3) According to many women my wife talked to about birth experience... If you are not gonna get a epidural there is no point in bothering with other meds.

 

[0roo0roo]

i don't get the claim of natural.

novocaine free dental care is also "natural"

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
i don't get the claim of natural.

novocaine free dental care is also "natural"

Surgery and tooth extraction aren't "natural." Popping a baby out is.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
i don't get the claim of natural.

novocaine free dental care is also "natural"

Surgery and tooth extraction aren't "natural." Popping a baby out is.

no, the natural process is even worse.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
What we think and what we say are completely different. The patient has full decision making capacity in the hospital, If they dont want a treatment, they dont get the treatment. Simple as that.

In our case, if you followed the OB's explicit direction - including inducing in the morning, epidural, 4 hour birth window, episitomy, C-section over her lunch hour, and circumcision, she was perfectly wonderful.

Since we came in at 2am and didn't do any of those things, we got the cold treatment from the on-call OB and that attitude migrated to most of the staff. We were very fortunate in that one nurse who had experience at a "baby-friendly" hospital essentially took over and helped my wife through the labor. Without her, we would have been either ignored or harassed. Hard to say.

The doctor also insisted on constant fetal monitoring even though our normal OB told us we could walk around and check every 15 minutes. This made roaming the halls impossible. Labor is stimulated by movements, so who knows what this doctor was trying to accomplish by keeping us tethered to 3 feet of the bed. She said we'd be going Against Medical Advice if we opted out of the constant monitoring.

When it was finally time to push, the doc forced her into stirrups whereas my wife would have preferred a different position. My son tore her on the way out and the doctor proceeds to start stitching her up without any novocaine. The doctor claims that we didn't want pain relief, but anyone with any sense knows that was referring to the birth process, not a tear. Even the nurses looked kind of shocked when she tried that one.

So yeah, we had full decision making ability. I guess.

This is just one OB, but it doesn't take too many of these stories to scare people who want a natural birth and their wishes respected to stay out of the hospital. Our experience here made us willing to jump through the hoops in order to have a homebirth. If our hospital experience had been better, we would have done differently.

 

[nanette1985]

My daughter's two water births were both in the hospital. Delivered by midwives, with her MDs and the hospital staff/facilities available in case they were needed.

I had two of my children in hospitals, two in a Childbirth Center. I think it's significant that Dr. Oroo - who is probably a very nice person and a superb MD who cared deeply about his patients, chooses to compare MD's who deliver lots of babies and parents who have two or three. He doesn't even mention a very important bunch of people - CNW's. Midwives deliver lots of babies too.

If anyone wants my opinion, I recommend midwives with MD backup. MD's hate to be backups - they're trained to be in charge - but a good midwife program usually knows who to use. A common misconception is that midwives don't all painkillers - wrong.

If you labor and deliver in a hospital, flat on your back, with IV's and monitors - you're immobile. And heck yes, you're going to need painkillers.

 

[BladeVenom]

My sister wanted to do it without any painkillers. She quickly changed her mind once it started hurting.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: princess ida
If you labor and deliver in a hospital, flat on your back, with IV's and monitors - you're immobile. And heck yes, you're going to need painkillers.

People don't realize that this is the most uncomfortable unnatural position for birth, and causes much of the pain/discomfort. It's used because it's easier for the doctor, not the mother.

It would be nice if people put as much thought into birth as they do into buying a car or TV.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: princess ida
My daughter's two water births were both in the hospital. Delivered by midwives, with her MDs and the hospital staff/facilities available in case they were needed.

I had two of my children in hospitals, two in a Childbirth Center. I think it's significant that Dr. Oroo - who is probably a very nice person and a superb MD who cared deeply about his patients, chooses to compare MD's who deliver lots of babies and parents who have two or three. He doesn't even mention a very important bunch of people - CNW's. Midwives deliver lots of babies too.

If anyone wants my opinion, I recommend midwives with MD backup. MD's hate to be backups - they're trained to be in charge - but a good midwife program usually knows who to use. A common misconception is that midwives don't all painkillers - wrong.

If you labor and deliver in a hospital, flat on your back, with IV's and monitors - you're immobile. And heck yes, you're going to need painkillers.

Sounds perfectly fine to me. As long as all the necessary medical care is readily at hand, i have no problem with being a backup to an experienced midwife

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Mo0o
What we think and what we say are completely different. The patient has full decision making capacity in the hospital, If they dont want a treatment, they dont get the treatment. Simple as that.

In our case, if you followed the OB's explicit direction - including inducing in the morning, epidural, 4 hour birth window, episitomy, C-section over her lunch hour, and circumcision, she was perfectly wonderful.

Since we came in at 2am and didn't do any of those things, we got the cold treatment from the on-call OB and that attitude migrated to most of the staff. We were very fortunate in that one nurse who had experience at a "baby-friendly" hospital essentially took over and helped my wife through the labor. Without her, we would have been either ignored or harassed. Hard to say.

The doctor also insisted on constant fetal monitoring even though our normal OB told us we could walk around and check every 15 minutes. This made roaming the halls impossible. Labor is stimulated by movements, so who knows what this doctor was trying to accomplish by keeping us tethered to 3 feet of the bed. She said we'd be going Against Medical Advice if we opted out of the constant monitoring.

When it was finally time to push, the doc forced her into stirrups whereas my wife would have preferred a different position. My son tore her on the way out and the doctor proceeds to start stitching her up without any novocaine. The doctor claims that we didn't want pain relief, but anyone with any sense knows that was referring to the birth process, not a tear. Even the nurses looked kind of shocked when she tried that one.

So yeah, we had full decision making ability. I guess.

This is just one OB, but it doesn't take too many of these stories to scare people who want a natural birth and their wishes respected to stay out of the hospital. Our experience here made us willing to jump through the hoops in order to have a homebirth. If our hospital experience had been better, we would have done differently.

hmm that ob sounds like a douche. we have woman make laps around the L&D floor all the time if their latent phase is slow or not progressing fast enough. And if they havent ruptured, we put them in the jacuzzi for a bit. As for the fetal monitoring, a lot of women want only intermittent monitoring, even if they're just lying in bed sleeping, which is cool w/ us as long as you let us do it every once in awhlie to see that everything is good.

And i'm really surprised by the fact that the ob didnt use lidocaine to stitch you up unless it was a small 1st degree. I can see how she might have just totally misinterpreted your wishes and just didnt ask.

 

[Gunslinger08]

It's like Diesel jeans. It's perceived to be better by people that can't provide any proof.

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
It's like Diesel jeans. It's perceived to be better by people that can't provide any proof.

:laugh: