Anybody using a 120Hz LCD for non-3d gaming?

[ahurtt]

So...I'm in the middle of doing a whole system refresh including monitor for the first time in about 6 years or so. I currently use a non-widescreen Samsung Syncmaster with a native resolution of 1280x1024. My new system is going to have a GTX 470 so I'll finally have enough guts in my system to be able to drive a nicer bigger higher res monitor. There are so many choices out there its insane. But one thing that has caught my attention is the recent advent of true 120Hz LCD monitors (NOT TV's) that are becoming available with 1200 x 1080 resolution. I'm wondering if anybody here is using such a monitor on their gaming rig and what your experiences are with it if so. I don't plan to do 3d right now but I've read that even without using 3d, the 120Hz rate helps a lot with avoiding tearing and other undesirable effects on fast paced games compared to standard 60Hz monitors. (I play a lot of FPS type stuff...TF2, CSS, Borderlands, etc...with a little RPG thrown in the mix). Any truth to that in the experience of people here? Is the additional cost for the 120Hz models justified by the gain in smoothness and picture quality? It looks like they can be had for around $350-$375 (with the undoubted exception of the Alienware brand model). It's a little more than I was planning on spending at first but I can afford it if the general consensus is that these monitors are worth it.

Specifically I'm weighing these 120Hz models:

Acer GD235HZ (February, 2010)
Alienware OptX AW2310 (June, 2010) - I'm sure this one is more than I'm willing to pay but listing it anyway...
ASUS VG236H (July, 2010)
LG W2363D (July, 2010)

(Here's a link to a newegg wishlist including each of these except the Alienware one)
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=22147708

I was setting out originally for something around 24". There are more out there but these are the ones I could find that had at least 1920x1080. Any that you guys know of that I have missed here? (I don't think I'm interested in 1,680 x 1,050 models so I didn't list any above).

Also, sorry if you guys feel this is in the wrong forum or anything. I realize its more about the hardware than any games in particular but I'm really only concerned about 85% with PC gaming for this planned purchase. I don't do consoles. If a moderator feels it would be more appropriate in the video or hardware forum I won't be offended if it gets moved.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

It depends on what kind of games you plan on playing. For my situation I pretty much need my 2x GTX470 SLI to get proper performance to drive my 120Hz BenQ XL2410T when playing Bad Company 2. If you're only averaging 60fps the strength of a 120Hz monitor is largely going to go to waste. IME you need to bee seeing absolutely minimum frame rates of 60 or higher with averages well above 90.

If you're planning on running just one GTX470 and play a lot of newer games then you really might want to consider a 1680x1050 x 120Hz monitor, abandoning 120Hz altogether, or upgrading the GPU power. But the games you specifically mentioned should be good to go for just a single GTX470.

That being said I absolutely love my 120Hz LCD and would never go back. Makes me hate myself that I didn't pick up a quality CRT like the Sony GDM-FW900 years ago because they're even better when it comes to motion clarity, resolution flexibility, and especially image quality (TN panels are required for 120Hz LCDs for their speed, and thus IQ suffers relative to an IPS panel)

 

[zerocool84]

I had the Acer GD235HZ for about a month. Returned it cus of horrible viewing angles and bad blacklight bleeding. The smoothness that true 120Hz introduces is so damn good, it's hard to go back to a regular 60Hz monitor. Even basic Windows use it makes a huge difference. It'll only help if you get more than 60fps in games to take advantage of the higher refresh rate so the games you mentioned, TF2, CSS, Borderlands, would benefit a lot from them. I'm going to wait later until the end of this year to get back into 120Hz to let manufacturers use higher quality panels but if you want one now I'd go with the Asus or Alienware as they are the higher quality ones.

 

[KaOTiK]

I have the Alienware Optx AW2310 and love absolutly love true 120hz. I do gaming in both 3D and non 3D and it works excellent in both regards imo. It is hard to go back to non 120hz displays once you experience the awesomeness they are.

 

[xCxStylex]

I've had the LG W2363D a little less than a month ago. My specific monitor is bright as hell, and even when turning down brightness/contrast, it's still "bright" for me. Perhaps I'm just a monitor noob and don't know how to calibrate it properly, but if anyone knows, pm me


As a reminder, if your system is not pumping over 60 fps, buying a 120hz monitor is a waste of money. The type of game you play may also help determine the value of the 120 hz monitor with your own personal perference. For me, I didn't need SC2 above 60 fps, and while the "smoothness" while turning in WoW is like eye candy to me, it's not needed. However, it's an absolutely amazing improvement in FPS games.


Oh also, check the "Graphics and Displays" forums for more info on 120hz monitors

It depends on what kind of games you plan on playing. For my situation I pretty much need my 2x GTX470 SLI to get proper performance to drive my 120Hz BenQ XL2410T when playing Bad Company 2. If you're only averaging 60fps the strength of a 120Hz monitor is largely going to go to waste. IME you need to bee seeing absolutely minimum frame rates of 60 or higher with averages well above 90.

 

[QueBert]

I run my CRT @ 120hz, old technology...

 

[Jjoshua2]

I'm pretty sure you would still get some improvement in lag time possibly with just say 60 fps. The video card won't always have an image at the exact time the lcd refreshes, so double the refresh rate, and you halve the average time the video card is waiting for the lcd, right?

 

[coreyb]

dont support the evil 1080p monitor trend!

 

[snuuggles]

I am in the market for the 120hz monitors for the same reason - motion clarity. Keep in mind that supposedly this will improve every aspect of your computing experience that involves "stuff moving" on the screen. It's *not* just for high-framerate games, though certainly those will benifit greatly.

One thing I'm wondering is if the 120hz input forces manufacturers to a certain (higher) level of pixel speed (like gray-to-gray, or other transitions). In other words, if the panel refreshes at 120hz, doesn't that by definition mean that the pixels must have a minimum 8ms refresh? I'm not really sure how that works, but that alone seems like a pretty big benifit.

One thing I would look out for is the larger-sized 120hz panels coming (hopefully soon!). Personally, 24" is just too small for mostly gaming. The new one's will be 27", so that's a little better, IMO.

Good luck, please let us (me!) know what you got and how you like it.

 

[ahurtt]

Well as one person above pointed out, yes there is a requirement for lower response times which means pretty much all the 120Hz monitors you get out there today are going to be TN panels because they can deliver the necessary response times...but they aren't the prettiest screens to look at. Now when the question about 24" vs. 27" or larger for PC gaming comes up...well exactly how far away from your screen do you sit? I would estimate that on average I sit maybe between 2 feet up to 4 feet max from my screen. I'm not sure that 1920x1080 would be a sufficient number of pixels to make a screen larger than 24" look good that close up. I don't know if even 1920 x 1200 would do for such a large monitor at such a close range. But when you get above that resolution they start getting prohibitively expensive (at least for what I'm willing to spend) at sizes over 24". Also you don't want to have to be physically turning your head to look at different areas of the screen. From my reading 24" seems to be the sweet spot for PC gaming monitors. Now if you're gonna be sitting across the room on the sofa looking at it or something, that's a different story.

I'll say this...the person who figures out how to flatten a CRT monitor to the size of an LCD will make a fortune from gamers.

 

[Anteaus]

Try not to forget the big picture. Regardless of what fps your playing at, one benefit of using a 120Hz monitor is the ability to eliminate tearing without resorting to using V-sync. As a person that using V-sync full time, this is a great boon.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I am in the market for the 120hz monitors for the same reason - motion clarity. Keep in mind that supposedly this will improve every aspect of your computing experience that involves "stuff moving" on the screen. It's *not* just for high-framerate games, though certainly those will benifit greatly.

Its so obviously not worth paying nearly double for a 120Hz monitor if you're not going to use it for games. Yes, its better everywhere else including on the desktop but its a complete waste of money unless you're running games at really high frame rates. Heck, some games, such as RTS types, don't benefit much from 120Hz.

One thing I'm wondering is if the 120hz input forces manufacturers to a certain (higher) level of pixel speed (like gray-to-gray, or other transitions). In other words, if the panel refreshes at 120hz, doesn't that by definition mean that the pixels must have a minimum 8ms refresh? I'm not really sure how that works, but that alone seems like a pretty big benifit.

The pixels have to be mostly fast enough for 120Hz for 3D gaming. Some transitions won't be fast enough and thus you'll get 3D ghosting when playing 3D games but for those most part the panels are fast enough. For 2D it won't really matter at all, you're still getting much much better than 60Hz

One thing I would look out for is the larger-sized 120hz panels coming (hopefully soon!). Personally, 24" is just too small for mostly gaming. The new one's will be 27", so that's a little better, IMO.

I have a 27" Dell U2711 that has a native resolution of 2560x1440 to compliment my 24" 120Hz BenQ XL2410T. I wouldn't want to run anything less at 27". 24" is just about perfect for 1080p, if not a little large for the pixel pitch. Sit closer to your monitor .

 

[Pia]

For people who aren't super concerned with FPS gaming, I would think the in-between monitors like NEC EA231WMi would be a good compromise. IPS panel, so no TN problems, and you can drive it at 83Hz which is a pretty decent improvement over 60.

 

[zerocool84]

For people who aren't super concerned with FPS gaming, I would think the in-between monitors like NEC EA231WMi would be a good compromise. IPS panel, so no TN problems, and you can drive it at 83Hz which is a pretty decent improvement over 60.

I'm sure you could drive it at higher Hz but only with lower rez than it's optimal 1920 x 1080 which makes no sense then why would you buy it. Every LCD at it's native rez is going to be 60Hz other than these 120Hz ones.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

For people who aren't super concerned with FPS gaming, I would think the in-between monitors like NEC EA231WMi would be a good compromise. IPS panel, so no TN problems, and you can drive it at 83Hz which is a pretty decent improvement over 60.

no you can't run that monitor at 83Hz, its spec'd at 56-75Hz but likely will only do 60Hz at its full native resolution

 

[Pia]

no you can't run that monitor at 83Hz, its spec'd at 56-75Hz but likely will only do 60Hz at its full native resolution

Check out the thread for that display at hardocp. Some dude found settings which allow 83Hz at full resolution via Displayport, and something like 75Hz via DVI.

 

[lavaheadache]

I have the asus vg 236h. let me tell you.... 120 hz is the best thing that ever happend to lcd's. I also own a dell 3007wfp and can't even go back to it.

 

[Borealis7]

after reading this review:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1280136712
(check out the calibration recommendation)

i'm leaning towards the LG, but it costs around 600$ (inc tax) here and not many 120Hz monitors are availabe to choose from, i just need that little push to justify its price. i play older games so i usually get good framerates and my 20" 16x12 starts to look small.

 

[ahurtt]

Try not to forget the big picture. Regardless of what fps your playing at, one benefit of using a 120Hz monitor is the ability to eliminate tearing without resorting to using V-sync. As a person that using V-sync full time, this is a great boon.

Yep this is mainly why I'm interested in it. I could care less about 3d. I'm trying to get as close to a good old CRT-like experience as I can.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Check out the thread for that display at hardocp. Some dude found settings which allow 83Hz at full resolution via Displayport, and something like 75Hz via DVI.

Well if you have some other reliable source that suggests otherwise, I thought you were just incorrectly referring to the monitors upper end horizontal refresh rate which goes up to 83KHz as if it was the upper end of the vertical refresh rate which is speced at 56-75. I'm still skeptical.

 

[12andy]

Bunny: Having recently bought the NEC, I can vouch for its 83hz capability over DP.

Having used a Mitsu Diamondtron 930SB many eons ago, my first foray in the LCD world was not without caution. Good viewing angles (read: lack of colour shift) was one of my top concerns, hence my decision to purchase the LG L246W (VA). Its picture quality blew me away, but I was sorely disappointed in the tearing, which was quite noticeable in fast-paced FPS games. Dealt with it for a few years, at which point it became unnoticeable (not a good thing? who knows!).

After coming across the monster NEC thread at [H], I was intrigued. 83hz worked without issue (5870), althoug the panel's lack of overdrive is noticeable, if you look for it. I'll take the slight motion blur over input lag, any day; being a diehard twitch FPS fan at heart (Q2, UT, UT2004, Q3, and currently BF: BC2, QL, Warsow [faster than Quakeworld, people... ]), my needs are probably more strict than that of average CoD Joe.

IMO, the NEC strikes a good balance of IQ, size/ res, and responsiveness.

 

[snuuggles]

Its so obviously not worth paying nearly double for a 120Hz monitor if you're not going to use it for games. Yes, its better everywhere else including on the desktop but its a complete waste of money unless you're running games at really high frame rates. Heck, some games, such as RTS types, don't benefit much from 120Hz.

Yeah, I haven't actually used a 120hz display, so I may be too hopeful that it solves the problems I have. Nah you're wrong, it's going to be AWWWWESOME!

I have a 27" Dell U2711 that has a native resolution of 2560x1440 to compliment my 24" 120Hz BenQ XL2410T. I wouldn't want to run anything less at 27". 24" is just about perfect for 1080p, if not a little large for the pixel pitch. Sit closer to your monitor .

I sit in a lay-z-boy about 4-5' from my current display (32" 768p TV). With the increase in resolution to 1080p, text and UI stuff would be unreadable on a 24". When (if) they release a 27" 120hz version, I'll spring for a articulating arm stand so I can swing it out towards me.

I have no idea how people game for more than an hour sitting at a desk, my neck would kill me.

 

[sigurros81]

Yeah, I haven't actually used a 120hz display, so I may be too hopeful that it solves the problems I have. Nah you're wrong, it's going to be AWWWWESOME!



I sit in a lay-z-boy about 4-5' from my current display (32" 768p TV). With the increase in resolution to 1080p, text and UI stuff would be unreadable on a 24". When (if) they release a 27" 120hz version, I'll spring for a articulating arm stand so I can swing it out towards me.

I have no idea how people game for more than an hour sitting at a desk, my neck would kill me.

Same as people who sits in front of a computer 8-10 hours per day at work, unless you're obese, then there may be health issues related to gaming on a desk.

 

[zerocool84]

Same as people who sits in front of a computer 8-10 hours per day at work, unless you're obese, then there may be health issues related to gaming on a desk.

lol..............health issues gaming on a desk??? It's the same health issues sitting anywhere for an extended period of time. Nothing difference.

 

[snuuggles]

Same as people who sits in front of a computer 8-10 hours per day at work, unless you're obese, then there may be health issues related to gaming on a desk.

Good point. I don't have any health issues, but I do work at a desk all day, I guess going home and sitting at a desk to game is just not something I'd enjoy.