Anyone else buying Starcraft 2 to just play the singleplayer campaign?

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Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
0
0
Huh? Germans mainly spoke English with a German accent with a few German words thrown in.
I'm pretty sure in the demo cutscenes the Germans spoke German. Too bad if they speak "Gerlish" in the full game.
I like CoH and I hate strategy games. Still don't play online multiplayer with it though. I pretty much only do comp-stomps with friends in every RTS I play because I'm just bad at RTSs. I like to have some leeway and not have to click a zillion times per second to compete. Hell, I often READ the little descriptions of various buildings, units, and upgrades in these games.
CoH still requires a whole lot of clicking. I'd like to see a modern rendition of a RTT game like Close Combat where the player's decisions, not execution, are what matters.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Yes. I hate online play and I especially hate fast paced RTS's online. Granted, Battle Net is probably the best server around. Still not in to it.
And if the Campaign is as good as its supposed to be, I wont mind dropping 60 bucks for it. Assuming of course I get a good skirmish experience as well. Seems like no one is talking about the skirmish.
Oh, and if there is an included map maker than I expect to see some quality home brew campaigns within a month or two. Some of the shit I downloaded for Starcraft 1 was unbelievable.
 

mav451

Senior member
Jan 31, 2006
626
0
76
Lol separating execution from strategy. Why don't you just let the game play itself then?
And if you can't even advance past comp stomps, wtf. SC2 practically halved the necessary APM with plenty of noob-friendly additions.

MBS, auto-mine, smart-casting and still people are complaining. Wow.
 

bullbert

Senior member
May 24, 2004
718
0
0
If the world ends in 2012, you're totally gonna miss out.

The 3rd Chapter might not even be out by then, so we are ALL gonna miss out.

Anyway, my backlog currently probably exceeds past December 21, 2012 (unless some of the games turn out to be true dogs), so I will REALLY be pissed if the world does end then. We already know that it will be Hilary's fault***.


*** although I think there are more conspiracy webpages relating Barry Soetoro to the number 666.
 

secretanchitman

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
9,352
21
91
definitely will be playing singleplayer. i refuse to look at any sc2 story until i play the game for myself. multiplayer i will probably play with my friends (who are pretty good at the game), but they all know i pale in comparison to them. whatever the case is, its all in good fun
 

Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
0
0
Lol separating execution from strategy. Why don't you just let the game play itself then?
Yea because how many times you can click per minute is the core of all strategic thinking hurr hurr hurr
 

Molondo

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2005
2,529
1
0
If you are too slow to keep up, don't fucking play the game. Go play turn based strategies.
 

imported_Alx

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2005
16
0
66
Playing this thing online is like getting caught in a raging tornado (that builds as you get more bases, army, workers) and trying desperately to hang on (keep control of your armies in multipronged attacks while teching, building units and expanding), and the person to flinch and let go first loses. Victory is not so much fun as it is a feeling of relief. You did what you planned to. You hung on.

If you get good enough, you'll be battling people who rarely let go. You will not beat them, for starcraft is their life. They reside in, or at least aspire to reside in, South Korea, and they go to sleep dreaming of a starcraft loving Korean girlfriend. These people are tiny, pale little boys with glasses and urine bowl haircuts. Google Idra for the visual.


There was a time when Starcraft 1 was derided for lack of innovation and being not much more than Warcraft in space. Some decade later a 3D clone of that game with a gimped online service is being hyped as the second coming.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
There was a time when Starcraft 1 was derided for lack of innovation and being not much more than Warcraft in space. Some decade later a 3D clone of that game with a gimped online service is being hyped as the second coming.

Really? There seems to be a large group of people who deride it for lack of innovation and just being a 3d starcraft...
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Really? There seems to be a large group of people who deride it for lack of innovation and just being a 3d starcraft...

I am firmly of that belief.
And I dont care. Fun is fun. I long since gave up on hoping for something new in gaming. I just pray for the occasional distraction from life, nothing more.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
Yes dont fix something that isnt broken. Starcraft 2 is a prime example of following this, battle.net 2.0 not so much.
 

Sahakiel

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2001
1,746
0
86
Yea, everything he said was basicly just excuses. He may experience that, but the game definitely doesn't boil down to that for most especially not people good at the game.

Excuses or not, that was my experience with SC. Rush, rush, more rush. New patch? New build order and/or new counter. Zerg were the dominant rush early on, but later patches added zealot rushes and even a viable marine rush. I gave up versus not long after that. As I keep re-iterating, there is less strategy and more rote memorization in SC. It's hard to enjoy a RTS game when your first 10 minutes are spent executing or breaking a rush and the last 10 minutes are spent mopping up what's left.
From what I remember of the late patches, the shift went from rushing with cheap early units to rushing with midrange units. There was never a point where fielding multiple unit types was even a consideration. New balancing patches meant a bit of time finding the hole in the tech trees, then exploiting it until the next patch.

100% agree. Every post Sahakiel has made is complete fud.

It's not fud when it's true. Whether or not you agree doesn't determine whether it's fud. Maybe you had a different experience. Maybe you had different expectations. Or maybe you just don't pay attention to the same details. I'm pretty damn sure I didn't experience the same events as every other gamer who played SC. Everything I posted is from my personal experience, plus or minus 8 years. None of it is made up, and as far as I can tell, nothing exaggerated to a significant degree.
My posts I based on memory, not through reading some random site somewhere.

Translation: He likes an RTS where he can press a button to magically warp in 1000+ unit armies that he can just attack move.

Actually, no, but thanks for trying. I like games that require actual thinking. I don't like games where strategy boils down memorizing counters. I don't like games that have rote build orders you have to follow just to have a chance. I like flexibility. I like having units that last longer than 10 seconds.
For once, it would be nice to have a competitive RTS where all units are available from the beginning and your "tech" tree is only used for armor/weapon upgrades. You have a choice of building powerful units, large numbers of weak units, upgrading units, scrapping units, etc from beginning to end. Instead of simply peeking at your enemy's base to see what he's building and then building the counter for it, you peak to see what he's building to guess (not know, like SC allows) the kind of advance he will be making and either shift defenses along the projected route or attack early to force his hand or organize a number of small forces to dig in and keep him occupied while you hit his base or reorganize your army to attack head on, or any other number of possible responses. That's the type of strategy I would prefer.

Most of your claims are exactly the opposite of how SC1 is actually played at a competitive level. For instance, you assert that scouting gets you killed against rush tactics. The most glaring counterexample is PvZ early game, where scouting is absolutely crucial for P - to the point where being able to keep your scouting probe alive inside Z's base is considered a fundamental skill. Under your theory, scouting in PvZ would be suicidal given Z's supposedly strong rush capability, but reality is in fact exactly the opposite: rushes are easy (trivial, even) to stop, but Z's unparalleled ability to quickly shift unit production is almost impossible to counter without adequate scouting.

That said, SC2 looks like a poorer game than SC1 from a competitive standpoint.

What you posted is essentially what I posted. The rush is still the first strategy out the gate. If that fails, or is anticipated to fail, the player switches to a counter. That still doesn't change the fact that a rush is the first expectation.
It's still a system of rote memorization and executing predetermined actions based on what you see. It still doesn't change the system of hard counters for units. It still doesn't change the emphasis on quick fights.

For me, there's no fun involved with quick fights. Beating on weaker opponents with overwhelming force is no different than decimating a larger force because you have the right unit counter.

I admit I don't have personal experience with the later ladder/national/international competitions. When I saw that in order to even reach the high end I had to spend time memorizing build orders, counters, set strats, counters for set strats, and so on for each and every race combination just to even have a chance to break even, I simply walked away. From my perspective, it wasn't worth sinking the time and effort just so I could be bored with a sub-par strategy game. I started looking at custom maps, found a few that were enjoyable or interesting, but never again played any type of strategy map with SC. I think the last patch I played was 1.08 or so. The game had reached its limits on what it could do.

I like long fights and few players have the same mentality. SC was repeatedly patched to cater to the larger majority. The hardcore diehards will always figure out a few I-Win combinations for various matchups, Blizzard won't do much more than mitigate the more obvious overmatches, and the ladder matches boil down to who spent the most time reading, memorizing, and executing the same sequences of 10-50 steps each. That's why I stopped playing versus maps. They got boring as hell. If I want quick action, I play a FPS.
Others like versus, and judging by the numbers, a large majority will take part. I make no excuses for the game or for myself and I place no blame on how the game works. The game simply went one way I didn't like, so I said goodbye and went elsewhere. SC2 didn't really change that significantly regardless of whether my win/loss was higher or lower than 50/50, it was still an incredibly boring, though prettier, game of memory. Out of about a hundred matches I really only enjoyed the first few, and that was because everything was a learning experience. Therefore I'll play single for the story, and check out what people can do with the new map editor.
 

Athadeus

Senior member
Feb 29, 2004
587
0
71
There seems to be some misconceptions about APM. The vast majority of players play at less than 60 apm average. I was getting between high platinum and #1 diamond in various setups in each phase of the beta with average apm of 40 in short games and about 55 in longer games. Sure, I could sometimes maintain ~130 apm for a short time while macroing zerg, but anybody that can handle Guitar Hero/Rock Band can learn the [very sensible] SC2 hotkeys and manage that as well after a few months.

I think that players who are able to complete the SP campaign on normal difficulty (without abusing save/load) will be able to enjoy MP and handle silver league at least.

Also, for reference, I have played these RTSes:
Warcraft: Orcs & Humans, Warcraft II: Tides of Darkenss (and Beyond the Dark Portal exp), Warcraft 3 (and Frozen Throne exp), Command & Conquer, C&C: Red Alert, C&C Tiberian Sun (and Firestormexp), C&C Red Alert 2 (and Yuri's revenge exp), C&C Generals (and Zero Hour exp), Total Annihilation (and Core Conquest exp and tons of 3rd party unit packs), Age of Empires 2, Age of Mythology, Age of Empires 3, Starcraft (and BW), SC2 beta. Only played Star Wars: Empire at War briefly and seen Company of Heroes played for a couple hours.

I've probably played nearly 10,000 total matches of those games, and my enjoyment of the SC2 beta (obviously MP only) has been up there with any of these other great RTS games.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
There was a time when Starcraft 1 was derided for lack of innovation and being not much more than Warcraft in space. Some decade later a 3D clone of that game with a gimped online service is being hyped as the second coming.

All those people were wrong anyway. Warcraft had two sides that were almost exactly the same. Starcraft had 3 sides that were completely different. It defined paper-rock-scissors strategy (for non-wargames anyhow). Many other RTS's have tried to capture that same balance and rarely succeeded.
 

Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,664
111
106
this applies to SC 1 and will apply to SC 2

the meta game changes as players increase in skill level and develop a better idea of what are standard builds and counters

the players at the lowest skill will likely do one of two things. do a rush build with not much of a follow up plan if the rush fails or 1 base turtle until they have a sizable army. the reason why is simple. they do not have the skill set to do anything beyond the above two strategies.

as the skill level increases, players will improve their ability to defend rushes and rushes are only used as a strategy if a player thinks their opponent is going to start with a macro heavy build. rushes become much more of a gamble and auto losses at higher skill levels.
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
I usually wait about a month or so before jumping on new games by then many will have played through the game and put it up on ebay for sale. usually get it for 1/2 or 1/3 the original pricing. this I might actually buy new since I will be playing multiplayer on it.
 

Qbah

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2005
3,754
10
81
I usually wait about a month or so before jumping on new games by then many will have played through the game and put it up on ebay for sale. usually get it for 1/2 or 1/3 the original pricing. this I might actually buy new since I will be playing multiplayer on it.

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to buy a used copy of SC2, since you link it to your battle.net account. Unless the seller made a separate account just for SC2? Or is it possible to unlink a CD-Key from your account?
 
Apr 28, 2010
114
0
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I'm really looking forward to the campaign, as I loved the story in both the original campaign and Brood War and it's usually all tied together with some awesome cutscenes. It will be the first thing I play.

Been in the beta for months, I've played 1vs1, 2vs2 and 3vs3 and it's all great fun, too.

I personally love the rushing. It doesn't mean the game is going to end fast, but for me it means that you have action right away, and have to figure out what the enemy is up to. I don't like building up peacefully for 10 minutes and then duke it out, but that's just me.
 

HybridSquirrel

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2005
6,161
2
81
I know I already posted here, but I am going to wait till this game goes on sale. I predict some time mid-August it will be seen for $40. Just speculation, but I hope so. Hopefully the collectors edition goes for cheap, so I can get the Thor pet.
 
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