Anyone else dreading Android 4.5 rather than anticipating it?

[sweenish]

I consider no access to notifications on my lock screen,

I did mention AcDisplay. This bit at the least is not an issue. And it hasn't been for a while.

Motorola has been providing access to notifications on your lock screen for about a year now. It's the functionality that AcDisplay is mimicking.

I'm assuming though, that you're using at least a PIN on your lockscreen? If not, you can have access to your notification shade on the lockscreen. I only have swipe to unlock, and can pull my shade down. When I used a PIN, I couldn't. Annoying, but it made sense from a security standpoint.

You mention Dashclock, I'm guessing it doesn't do enough for you. I also didn't realize it replicated any iPhone functionality. Here I thought it was an open solution to having just the information I wanted on my lockscreen, and not the iPhone's shove what devs want on the lockscreen option. I admit that I don't have a lot of recent iOS experience, and I don't know if the iOS lockscreen actually can be customized, but my assumption is that it can't, because most things in iOS can't.

I can kind of get behind the app privacy per permission approval thing, but only a bit. If I am trying to install an app and the permissions seem fishy, why would I ever want to continue the process? What app had a fishy permission that you still really wanted to install? And why would you be for allowing people to hamstring apps by denying essential permissions that may seem over-reaching? In fact, I wonder how many apps you stopped from installing because a permission appeared fishy but had legitimate reasoning. Same would go for me.

You have to know that people would deny apps like Foursquare access to their location, and then go on to negatively review the app when it fails to function.

With that said, there is an overhaul that needs to happen but I haven't put enough thought into it myself to say what path I would prefer. I check the permissions at install, and I've taught my wife to do the same. It's been working fine.

Like I said earlier, you're still using some out-dated and illogical arguments. Like Greenify mimicking the iPhone. It doesn't. Greenifying an app kills notifications and background tasks. iOS doesn't do that. I can also almost guarantee that if iPhones shipped with more RAM, they wouldn't kill as many processes, either.

You're not actually countering the argument of "why didn't you just get an iPhone from the beginning" at all. You just make it sound like you should have more and more. And you keep touting iOS as if it has no problems of its own. Until iOS 8 launches, all non-Safari apps are gimped in how they access the web. Only Safari could use the Nitro engine; all other apps had to use the older, slower engine. No one could bring in their own. I'd consider that a major flaw. And it stuck around for years. They're only just now going to allow access to Nitro for all apps. People still can't bring in their own. How many years has it been that people had to deal with the basic iOS keyboard? And how long will it be before you can set default apps in iOS? I really hope Apple Maps grows on you quickly.

You act as if we're all trying to mimic iPhones and you're the only one who has seen the light. It's simply not true. I get functionality that I like. If iOS did it first, I don't really care. I also didn't realize that Action Launcher's shades and covers mimicked iOS. Or that Action Launcher's quick page is an iOS feature. Or that Link Bubble's functionality is even possible on iOS. Or that iOS could change icon themes to better complement my wallpaper. I did NOT scramble to replicate parallax wallpapers (as one example), as I don't really care about those.

As a PS, it's not as if I spend hours meticulously theming my phone. I spent fifteen minutes (one time) laying out icons and widgets on my home screens in an order that I liked, and then I chose an icon theme that complemented my wallpaper. When I change my wallpaper, I switch icon themes. So time intensive! The worst is when the color theme changes so drastically that I have to re-drop my widgets themed differently. A whole 2 extra minutes to say "I'll take the light version this time." The last time I spent more than 5 minutes changing the look of my home screens was at least 3 months ago. So, no, hours are not required to get the phone looking the way I want. If you want to throw in all the cumulative time I've ever spent picking a launcher, keyboard(s), widgets, icon themes, building Tasker profiles, etc., hours (over the course of 4 years) would be fair.

But at least I had the choice.

You have your opinion. I respect that. I don't respect the faulty logic and not-facts that are getting you there.

I'll continue to be excited for what Google has to show. I do hope the large screen iPhone rumors pan out, maybe you'll finally be satisfied.

 

[antef]

I appreciate all of your viewpoints, it's a good discussion to have and both sides usually learn a thing or two in the process.

You mentioned AcDisplay, I downloaded it and tried it. Set it as the lockscreen. It works, although a little clunky to have two lockscreens since I use a PIN, nothing the app can do about that though. Previously I was using DashClock, which also works. This does mimic iPhone. iPhone puts notifications front and center on the lock screen, and you can turn it off on an app by app basis. This is a perfect example of a third-party app filling a hole that Google left. They added lockscreen widgets, but didn't provide the feature that most people really wanted on their lockscreen. DashClock is nice because I don't need two lockscreens, it can just be a widget. Really, it was pretty close to perfect, my only gripes were the tiny clock font, the 30 second screen timeout (without widgets it's only 5 seconds), and the fact that I see every notification icon in two places on the screen. What bugs me most about this in particular is just the fact that I have to do this at all. So an OS that has this working the way I think it should out of the box is appealing.

The thing about permissions isn't that a permission seems fishy, just that it's unnecessary. For example, even if every app I use comes from a legit company, that doesn't mean I need to permit every one of them access to my contacts just because it has one "send to contact " feature that I'll never even use. I'd rather give an app access to such info when and if I actually want to use a feature that requires it. Otherwise it's just unnecessary siphoning of data. XPrivacy is one of the most popular Xposed mods, so I think a lot of Android users want this kind of control.

Greenify is trying to mimic iPhone exactly really. It even says in the first line of its thread on XDA, "No more envy of your friends' iPhone which never become slow and battery hungry after lots of apps installed." It does kill background tasks, and it only kills notifications because it's a result of killing the background tasks (services). Most people want to receive notifications still even with the background task killed, which is why Greenify offers this exact feature when you enable its Xposed module. It lets you still receive GCM messages even with the apps in hibernation. This is how iOS performs. iOS kills background tasks aggressively. I don't mean the app's memory, I mean its ability to run CPU cycles. It can only do so for a brief time after leaving the app or when receiving a notification, unless it's performing a special service like music or GPS. People use Greenify because they want this behavior...without it, bad apps on Android can use CPU endlessly. Just the other day my tablet showed Google+, a first party app, with keep awake for almost 5 hours. Their sloppy programming was draining my battery for no reason. Greenify would prevent this from being possible, as would iOS. Yes, that means things like Tasker can't be on the platform. As awesome as Tasker is, I'm only using it right now for setting quiet hours and setting BT volume in my car. I can live without it.

I'm not sure where the question of "why no iPhone from beginning" comes from. iPhone has always had dealbreakers for me, in the past no GPS/multitasking, reliance on iTunes, and more recently screen size. Android was the only platform that had what I wanted. With each release though iPhone fills more of the gaps, and it has always had certain advantages. I'm to the point now where I don't know what Android gets me other than a more affordable device. The way the platform works is becoming more irritating, and Google doesn't address it. It's only now that I'm bothered enough by some of these things to switch. That doesn't suddenly mean I've been using the wrong platform all this time. You're totally right that iOS has had major shortcomings, like the Nitro situation. That's why I never even considered it before. But like I said it keeps improving, and I'm now at a point especially with iOS 8 where it seems to have mostly everything I want.

It's cool that you're able to keep time spent on customization to a minimum, but for me, to fill some of the functionality gaps that I deem important, Xposed and some root apps are necessary. Once it's working it mostly doesn't need touched, but every so often, it requires attention again. It's just more attention than I want to give to simply keep my phone or tablet running the way I want it to.

My use of Google's many services probably won't change, so I'm still interested to see what comes out next week. I'm sure at least a few things will be interesting.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Google+ is a fucking terrible beast. I don't understand how I have sync disabled and it still wakes my phone for 10 minutes a day. I have it Greenified too.

 

[dawheat]

Google+ is a fucking terrible beast. I don't understand how I have sync disabled and it still wakes my phone for 10 minutes a day. I have it Greenified too.

Can't you disable Google+ completely? Even Google seems to have given up on it.

 

[Rock Hydra]

Verizon Note 3 finally got 4.4.2 yesterday (from 4.3). I read the release notes for kitkat and nothing really appeals that much to me. In normal usage since yesterday, I haven't run across anything that really benefited me either. It also took me a few to realize Location replaced the GPS button. Does that wording make more sense?

The lack of design consistency across Samsung devices is also astonishing. My Tab Pro still calls it "GPS" on 4.2.2.

Sent from my SM-T520 using Forum Fiend v1.2.8.

 

[soccerballtux]

Can't you disable Google+ completely? Even Google seems to have given up on it.

Use App Quarantine to make a widget of it. And facebook and instagram and Amazon MP3 which wakes up every 10 minutes to find new MP3's no thanks.

Wouldn't have been hard for them to take Facebook's place. Just log in to your facebook and scrape the account. Boom everything is copied over. Now use us.
Whatever. they're idiots.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Can't you disable Google+ completely? Even Google seems to have given up on it.

I can uninstall it yeah. But I do use it once in a while. I'd like to at least receive push notifications, but it appears that you have to turn on sync.

Facebook is already bad enough in that you have to Greenify it to prevent wakelocks. However, even with wakelocks its far better than Google+. So my point is there's a way out with Facebook. With Google+, you just have to settle for wakelocks. If you sync it, there's even more wakelocks. So the only way around it is really to uninstall it, meaning I can't use it at all.

The only reason I want it is not so I can talk to my friends (no one uses it in regularly my circle), but because a lot of Beta Play Apps are on there and you report bugs via Google+ or make suggestions.

But in all honesty, could I do away with Google+ more than I can do away with Facebook. Yes, most definitely. But its more of shutting off the water main to deal with a leaky faucet kind of solution that's not ideal.

 

[sweenish]

antef's post

This post explained your situation much better than the previous one for me. And thanks for the Greenify explanation. I never used the Xposed module, which meant I killed next to nothing.

I still feel like the "chasing iOS" argument is a misnomer, though. Google provided lockscreen widgets and didn't go beyond that to allow app developers to do what they wanted with it. That's always what they do.

Dashclock proved popular, not because it apes iOS, but because it's highly functional, customizable, and open. That's the main difference. iOS provides a feature, but then doesn't let devs really experiment with it.

The best analogy I can come up with is Apple gives you toys and instructions in a clean room. The toys do not function beyond the instructions' scope. Google provides a sandbox to play in, and they'll throw in other toys on occasions. What you do with them is completely up to you.

Feature parity is a thing that's going to happen with very mature platforms. Android takes from iOS, and vice versa. However, they still have very different philosophies driving them. So what does it really matter if XPrivacy or Dashclock take iOS features and integrate them into Android?

I'm not mad at Apple for FINALLY allowing third party keyboards, Android's method of sharing between apps, and the Nitro engine for all. Those were great announcements, and a serious boon for iOS users. I don't buy Apple's products because I take issue with the basic philosophy driving the company of "my way or the highway." Unfortunately, I still rely on iTunes, and they love to make changes simply for change's sake. Google isn't alone in this behavior.

So I don't see why app developers/Google making an iOS feature is seen as a negative in your eyes, but Apple can take what they want without being held to the same standard.

In any case, I'm glad we pretty much remained civil. If any of my language was overly offensive, I apologize. I do respect your opinion. I was just convinced that it wasn't developed on a strong foundation.

This is actually going to be an interesting year for mobile. As much as Samsung, Sony, and HTC tried to convince me otherwise.

 

[antef]

Well it looks like Google agreed with me about the lock screen notifications, because widgets are out and notifications are in with Android L. The implementation looks nearly identical to iPhone. Took them long enough, but glad to see it.

You're right that both platforms are converging regarding feature set and behavior, and there's nothing wrong with them borrowing ideas. I'm glad when both platforms improve. I was only commenting on the fact that some of Android's purest enthusiasts who do the most with Xposed and ROMs often try to emulate iOS features to a T (like tinted status bar). So it makes you reconsider which platform actually has the behavior you're looking for the most.

I also appreciate the civil discussion. No offense taken!

 

[bearxor]

Well it looks like Google agreed with me about the lock screen notifications, because widgets are out and notifications are in with Android L. The implementation looks nearly identical to iPhone. Took them long enough, but glad to see it.

If the notifications are as customizable as they are on iOS, that would be a big thing that will make me look back towards Android. iOS's notification system is a big draw for me compared to how they've been handled thus far on Android.

 

[cmdrdredd]

If the notifications are as customizable as they are on iOS, that would be a big thing that will make me look back towards Android. iOS's notification system is a big draw for me compared to how they've been handled thus far on Android.

That's the thing... You can already customize almost anything with android. Some stuff needs root but the option is there.

 

[bearxor]

That's the thing... You can already customize almost anything with android. Some stuff needs root but the option is there.

I can have actionable lock screen notifications when my device is locked and when it is unlocked, get an actionable alert while I'm using the device and it will NEVER show up in the notification tray waiting for me to clear it out later?

That would be news to me.

 

[dlock13]

That's the thing... You can already customize almost anything with android. Some stuff needs root but the option is there.

The problem is most people want that functionality built right into the OS. They don't want to depend on a 3rd party app to add the functionality that another OS has. I for one am glad to hear a lot of the stuff Google is adding. The problem though is I've been burned by Google plenty of times, and as much as I want an Android phone, I don't think I can go back to them.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The problem is most people want that functionality built right into the OS. They don't want to depend on a 3rd party app to add the functionality that another OS has. I for one am glad to hear a lot of the stuff Google is adding. The problem though is I've been burned by Google plenty of times, and as much as I want an Android phone, I don't think I can go back to them.

Exactly. The argument that the user can customize is great, but at the same time out of the box functionality is desired. Relying on 3rd party apps results in an inconsistent behavior and experience. I would love for some basic functionality similar to Lux, LightFlow, Quiet Hours, Lockscreen notifications apps etc. built right into Android.

If the argument is always that the user has freedom to customize, then why not ship a freaking command prompt Linux with no UI? After all the user can customize all they want right?

This is why I'm a big fan of toggles and switches and more options. I feel like Google always gives such bare bones options that we're almost always forced to resort to a 3rd party app. Like for example its been years now and the auto-correct of the iOS keyboard from 2008 still beats the auto-correct of the Google Keyboard in 2014. Swiftkey is great and all, but I shouldn't need to use Swiftkey because the stock experience is so bad.

 

[Red Storm]

Like for example its been years now and the auto-correct of the iOS keyboard from 2008 still beats the auto-correct of the Google Keyboard in 2014. Swiftkey is great and all, but I shouldn't need to use Swiftkey because the stock experience is so bad.

If this were true though, then Apple wouldn't be having 3rd party keyboards as a highlight feature of their next update. After having gone from Android phones for years to a work issued iPhone 5, typing has been by far the biggest downgrade for me. It's slower, smaller, requires two hands compared to one hand on Android, and more error prone on the iPhone, to the point where I no longer bother typing out more than a sentence or two. I so badly miss the Google Keyboard.

Notifications on iOS are a whole other issue. Clearing them away is extremely cumbersome, you have to tap a very small and specific part of the (already small) screen, and not just once, but twice. And to this day I still do not understand the point/use of having separate sections for "Missed" and "All" notifications.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Exactly. The argument that the user can customize is great, but at the same time out of the box functionality is desired. Relying on 3rd party apps results in an inconsistent behavior and experience. I would love for some basic functionality similar to Lux, LightFlow, Quiet Hours, Lockscreen notifications apps etc. built right into Android.

If the argument is always that the user has freedom to customize, then why not ship a freaking command prompt Linux with no UI? After all the user can customize all they want right?

This is why I'm a big fan of toggles and switches and more options. I feel like Google always gives such bare bones options that we're almost always forced to resort to a 3rd party app. Like for example its been years now and the auto-correct of the iOS keyboard from 2008 still beats the auto-correct of the Google Keyboard in 2014. Swiftkey is great and all, but I shouldn't need to use Swiftkey because the stock experience is so bad.

Lol the iphone keyboard sucks so bad I don't know where to start. Red Storm gave a quick and dirty though that I would agree with. Almost everyone I know who moved from Android to an iPhone comments on how bad it is to type on. There is a reason almost every awkward autocorret text screenshot is from an iphone, and it isn't because it's good.

I think you expect Google to do all this stuff that they don't even control. When you buy a phone that isn't Nexus what do you get? The look and feel that the manufacturer wanted. That's why 3rd party apps exist. For people who want to customize the look and feel themselves. Yes you have to do some digging, but iPhone will never get different launchers and be able to customize the UI as heavily. Hell I don't know anyone with an android phone that didn't install some app to add functionality they didn't have before where people I know with an iPhone all wish they had the option.

 

[sweenish]

I flashed the preview to my N7, and it is definitely a preview. Kingdom Rush refuses to install for me, Kingdome Rush Frontiers installs but won't play, and my tablet locked up completely once. Google Keyboard has some graphical hiccups in the word prediction while swiping. A few apps seem to be broken, at least WatchESPN wasn't working for me.

But even so, I don't see myself going back. It's already much improved.

 

[StrangerGuy]

It wouldn't be 4.5 if it didn't continue the legacy of Google's hate for microSD.

I'm calling it now.

 

[WelshBloke]

The problem is most people want that functionality built right into the OS. They don't want to depend on a 3rd party app to add the functionality that another OS has. I for one am glad to hear a lot of the stuff Google is adding.

Cue lots of people complaining about Google adding "bloat" to Android in 3...2...

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Cue lots of people complaining about Google adding "bloat" to Android in 3...2...

I was thinking people would start claiming Google is trying to gain a monopoly on Android apps by prepackaging them ala Microsoft and IE.

 

[dawheat]

Hmm I'm curious what the integration with Knox will mean. One of the PITA things about current Samsung phones has been making sure getting root or doing certain activities don't trip a Knox flag which can lead to a warranty denial.

 

[Red Storm]

Hmm I'm curious what the integration with Knox will mean. One of the PITA things about current Samsung phones has been making sure getting root or doing certain activities don't trip a Knox flag which can lead to a warranty denial.

I personally have never turned in a phone for replacement if I knowingly voided the warranty via rooting or whatnot. If warranty matters to you, you should buy phones that let you root them without voiding the warranty...

 

[VashHT]

I wish there was a nexus 6 coming out that had battery life comparable to the flagship phones out now. I'm tempted to pick up a N5 but after using a G2 for a while I'm used to getting a day out of my battery pretty easily even when using my phone a lot.

 

[WelshBloke]

I wish there was a nexus 6 coming out that had battery life comparable to the flagship phones out now. I'm tempted to pick up a N5 but after using a G2 for a while I'm used to getting a day out of my battery pretty easily even when using my phone a lot.

Nexus = limited storage and mediocre battery life.

 

[Mopetar]

I was thinking people would start claiming Google is trying to gain a monopoly on Android apps by prepackaging them ala Microsoft and IE.

People have been complaining about that for a while now (although it's more related to requirements for using the Android name and to a lesser degree some of the manufacturing requirements surrounding all of that) so it's hardly anything new. There have even be some lawsuits related to it.

However no one really cares and outside of Amazon and to a smaller degree Samsung, and no one really wants to make the effort to create replacements for all of the different Google apps and services.