Anyone else hoarding incandescent bulbs?

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Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
I will offer a counterpoint. And, in this case the market forced the decision.

Consumers don't want to pay higher electricity bills. Utilities are being forced to switch to green power generation which is quite expensive. That leaves zero money left for upgrading the power grid which is operating close to capacity (Tier 1 and 2 power alerts, etc.) Oh right, and we're using more power than ever.

So what's the solution? If you use less power the grid can continue to operate in its current state without huge upgrades/expansion. This frees up money the utilities use to pursue green power initiatives that consumers want.

Pick your poison. A recent article in the LA Times stated the city of LA has replaced about half of its street lights with LEDs. LA has about 200k street lights. They've replaced 114k units, saving over $5 million annually in electricity and over a 60% improvement in efficiency.

Plus, CFL and LED lighting tends to produce less heat so you have less heat load to deal with during the summer months. So either be prepared for increased energy costs or use energy more efficiently. Its exactly like gas prices. They go up, people are suddenly willing to buy fuel efficient cars. Funny how that works.

When I lived in CA they *begged* us to conserve electricity. When we didn't conserve enough they threatened us with rolling black-outs and browns-outs. As our air conditioners died during the peek of summer we all got the message.

Two years later So. Cal. Edison said we had reduced our electricity use so much that their revenues were down. They lobbied for and got the okay to raise the rates that consumers paid for electricity. We ended up paying more than ever.

Funny how that works.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,601
2,260
126
When I lived in CA they *begged* us to conserve electricity. When we didn't conserve enough they threatened us with rolling black-outs and browns-outs. As our air conditioners died during the peek of summer we all got the message.

Two years later So. Cal. Edison said we had reduced our electricity use so much that their revenues were down. They lobbied for and got the okay to raise the rates that consumers paid for electricity. We ended up paying more than ever.

Funny how that works.

In other words they didnt plan for all that conservatism? lol

I never thought I would see the day.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,046
564
126
When I lived in CA they *begged* us to conserve electricity. When we didn't conserve enough they threatened us with rolling black-outs and browns-outs. As our air conditioners died during the peek of summer we all got the message.

Two years later So. Cal. Edison said we had reduced our electricity use so much that their revenues were down. They lobbied for and got the okay to raise the rates that consumers paid for electricity. We ended up paying more than ever.

Funny how that works.
We still have all those rolling black outs and such on extremely hot days. In fact, at work when those alerts are called they'll switch over to the backup generators. Guess its part of the deal we have with Edison.

And yeah, nobody said this crap makes sense. But don't forget, there is also a huge push by city of LA and state of CA to move to green power. Again, somebody has to pay for that.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
When I lived in CA they *begged* us to conserve electricity. When we didn't conserve enough they threatened us with rolling black-outs and browns-outs. As our air conditioners died during the peek of summer we all got the message.

Instead of banning light bulbs, wouldn't it make more sense to make laws about maximum absorption of new roofs and building siding? I always thought it was dumb that houses have dark exteriors and black roofs. It's like some kind of conspiracy by energy companies to sell electricity to run air conditioners.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/15/business/fi-cool-roof15
The white coating deflects nearly 85% of the heat that hits it, reducing the surface temperature by as much as 50 degrees. That means less energy is needed to cool the hotel's interior, cutting air-conditioning costs and carbon emissions.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Instead of banning light bulbs, wouldn't it make more sense to make laws about maximum absorption of new roofs and building siding? I always thought it was dumb that houses have dark exteriors and black roofs. It's like some kind of conspiracy by energy companies to sell electricity to run air conditioners.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/15/business/fi-cool-roof15
I wonder if this negatively affects airplane personnel. The roofs might be too shiny...

Anyway, I hate CFLs and hope they are finished soon as a stopgap measure. The mercury, CRI, reliability, and power factor issues are severe drawbacks.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
3,976
126
SO...I forgot to stockpile 100Ws last year, but this year Im going to be warehousing the 75Ws. So far I have 7 bulbs.
Why hoard and stockpile? You misread the law. Only the least efficient standard bulbs are banned. Incandescent bulbs aren't banned. Specialty bulbs aren't banned.

Want 100 W bulbs right now? Try Home Depot for example. Buy them today, tomorrow, or any time. http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Why can you still buy that 100 W bulb? It is a specialty bulb, and thus not banned. All they have to do is label it for vibration (such as a ceiling fan), rough service, different color, high temperature, cold temperature, etc. Then it is legal to buy and sell that 100 W bulb.

Many other sellers sell them, I just linked one company. Try Amazon for 5224 varieties of 100 W incandescent bulbs.

Or, they can sell the more energy efficient incandescents. Those are more rare and are usually hybrids though (part halogen mostly incandescent).
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
Not hoarding but I do have about 2 packs plus a few laying around the house. About 10 or so total.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,601
2,260
126
Why hoard and stockpile? You misread the law. Only the least efficient standard bulbs are banned. Incandescent bulbs aren't banned. Specialty bulbs aren't banned.

Want 100 W bulbs right now? Try Home Depot for example. Buy them today, tomorrow, or any time. http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Why can you still buy that 100 W bulb? It is a specialty bulb, and thus not banned. All they have to do is label it for vibration (such as a ceiling fan), rough service, different color, high temperature, cold temperature, etc. Then it is legal to buy and sell that 100 W bulb.

Many other sellers sell them, I just linked one company. Try Amazon for 5224 varieties of 100 W incandescent bulbs.

Or, they can sell the more energy efficient incandescents. Those are more rare and are usually hybrids though (part halogen mostly incandescent).

Well what about this?

The nation's light bulbs begin facing new efficiency and labeling standards starting Jan. 1, but don't expect old-fashioned incandescents to suddenly disappear from store shelves.

The congressionally mandated efficiency standards gradually phase out Thomas Edison's 131-year-old creation in favor of other light bulbs that use at least 25% less energy. The first to go, beginning Sunday, is the traditional 100-watt, followed in January 2013 with the 75-watt version and in January 2014 with the 40-watt and 60-watt bulbs.
Yet even Edison's 100-watt bulb will still be available for a while. The bipartisan law mandating the phaseout, which President George W. Bush signed in 2007, says the bulbs can't be manufactured or imported after Jan. 1 but lets stores sell them until stock runs out.

In California, which implemented the efficiency standards a year earlier than the rest of the nation, it took several months for the 100-watt bulbs to exit stores. "We expect the same at the national level," says Noah Horowitz of the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group.

"We'll still have 100-watt incandescents on our shelf through June," Bill Hamilton of Home Depot predicts, based on the amount of remaining stock.

Major manufacturers and retailers say they'll hew to the efficiency standards even though Congress passed a one-year spending bill earlier this month that bars the Department of Energy from spending to enforce them through the end of September 2012.

A major reason, says Jacklyn Pardini of Lowe's, is that "people are looking for more energy-efficient options."

Lighting Science Group, which makes LEDs, says it doubled its revenue from LED sales in the last year and expects "exponential growth next year" regardless of what Congress does, says Jim Haworth, the company's CEO.

Still, the incandescent phaseout worries a third of Americans, who say they prefer traditional bulbs, according to an October survey of 303 adults conducted for lighting company Osram Sylvania. One in eight, or 13%, say they'll stockpile Edison's 100-watt bulbs.

Congress' bill did not address the other part of the lighting standards: labeling. The Federal Trade Commission, effective Sunday, requires that all newly made or imported bulbs carry labels on the front and back of packages that list brightness (or lumens), estimated yearly cost and life span as well as its color (or light appearance).



edit: Chincanery?

Q: Do the standards ban all incandescents?

A: No. Edison's bulbs won't meet the rules, but the halogen incandescent will. So, too, will the CFL (compact fluorescent lamp) and the LED (light-emitting diode), each of which is at least 75% more efficient than the traditional incandescent. Also, the rules don't apply to less commonly used incandescents such as appliance, three-way and colored bulbs.

"halogen incandescent"
 
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Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Well what about this?




edit: Chincanery?



"halogen incandescent"

The correct term is quartz-halogen. It refers to a type of incandescent lamp that has its filament running much hotter to produce a whiter light. You can do this with any light by over volting it. However you will find that it burns out faster and when it does you will notice the glass (bulb) is blackened much faster than the same bulb running at rated voltage for the same time.

So what's the difference here? By enclosing a bit of salts from the halogen family of elements on the periodic table (typically iodine is used) the tungsten that "boils off" the filament gets re-desposited back to the filament instead of the envelope. This allows a similar lifetime with increased efficacy (lumens per watt) and improved "whiter" light with better overall color rendering characteristic.

So where does the quartz part come in? Quartz can withstand the higher temperatures (and internal operating pressure) that would otherwise cause a glass envelope to fail. This is why you must always handle these lamps (the bare bulb capsule) with gloved hands or wipe them clean with 99% isopropyl alcohol. Oil from your fingers will degrade the envelope and usually result in premature lamp failure.

Finally, since quartz is essentially transparent to ultraviolet radiation, halogen lamps produce UV output sufficient to require a glass shield when used in an area where humans are present. This shield also protects from injury or even fire hazard in case of sudden capsule failure.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Haven't bought an incandescent bulb in the last 7-8 years. Don't even know how many/if I have any at all. Might check to make sure I have a few 60 watters as my CFL's don't fit the garage door opener (yes, the ballast is bigger at the screw in base than a regular glass bulb's body).

Have had some CFL's last 10 years and still going but for some reason, the more recent versions burn out much more quickly - probably cheaper materials and lower quality craftsmanship.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
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RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,817
323
136
I have CFLs and LEDs......

Same here, the ONLY old school bulbs are in appliances like the fridge, oven range, microwave and that's it.

Mostly CFL's and a few LED's, once LED's become more mainstream and cheaper I'll buy 20 of them.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
What will really bake your noodle is trying to calculate....something.

Allow me to explain. Most of the mercury in the oceans and hence environment, comes from electrical powerplants. If you lower the electricity consumed, you lower the mercury in the environment, but CFL production increases the mercury in the environment. You see where I'm going with this? You see the ironing?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/news/4217864

How much mercury do power plants emit to light a CFL?
About 50 percent of the electricity produced in the U.S. is generated by coal-fired power plants. When coal burns to produce electricity, mercury naturally contained in the coal releases into the air. In 2006, coal-fired power plants produced 1,971 billion kilowatt hours (kwh) of electricity, emitting 50.7 tons of mercury into the air—the equivalent amount of mercury contained in more than 9 billion CFLs (the bulbs emit zero mercury when in use or being handled).
Approximately 0.0234 mg of mercury—plus carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide—releases into the air per 1 kwh of electricity that a coal-fired power plant generates. Over the 7500-hour average range of one CFL, then, a plant will emit 13.16 mg of mercury to sustain a 75-watt incandescent bulb but only 3.51 mg of mercury to sustain a 20-watt CFL (the lightning equivalent of a 75-watt traditional bulb). Even if the mercury contained in a CFL was directly released into the atmosphere, an incandescent would still contribute 4.65 more milligrams of mercury into the environment over its lifetime.


Of course, with the fracking revolution, the equation changes somewhat but it should still be a net savings. Especially if you properly recycle.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
I jumped on the CFL bandwagon, then each expensive (GE brand) died a quick death, now I'm back to old school and yes, I'm stockpiling them...
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,434
12,605
126
www.anyf.ca
If they truly do ban these, I can totally see black markets going on. Light bulb cartels, etc... Would it really be called a black market though? Some people will have underground operations to manufacture them and ship them out to dealers and stuff, people gonna get killed over this. Shit's gonna get real bro.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
3,976
126
Well what about this?
Well what about the ACTUAL LAW:
Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-110hr6enr/pdf/BILLS-110hr6enr.pdf
Turn to page 83.
(ii) EXCLUSIONS.—The term ‘general service incandescent lamp’ does not include the following incandescent lamps:
(I) An appliance lamp.
(II) A black light lamp.
(III) A bug lamp.
(IV) A colored lamp.
(V) An infrared lamp.
(VI) A left-hand thread lamp.
(VII) A marine lamp.
(VIII) A marine signal service lamp.
(IX) A mine service lamp.
(X) A plant light lamp.
(XI) A reflector lamp.
(XII) A rough service lamp.
(XIII) A shatter-resistant lamp (including a shatter-proof lamp and a shatter-protected lamp).
(XIV) A sign service lamp.
(XV) A silver bowl lamp.
(XVI) A showcase lamp.
(XVII) A 3-way incandescent lamp.
(XVIII) A traffic signal lamp.
(XIX) A vibration service lamp.
(XX) A G shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20–2003 and C79.1–2002 with a diameter of 5 inches or more.
(XXI) A T shape lamp (as defined in ANSI C78.20–2003 and C79.1–2002) and that uses not more than 40 watts or has a length of more than 10 inches.
(XXII) A B, BA, CA, F, G16–1/2, G–25, G30, S, or M–14 lamp (as defined in ANSI C79.1–2002 and ANSI C78.20–2003) of 40 watts or less.’
Meet any one of those exclusions and the incandescent bulb is legal to make, sell, and buy in the United States FOREVER (or at least until the law is changed again). That Home Depot bulb is legal at 100 W forever since it meets exclusion XII, rough service.

There are other ways around the law. For example, the law stated that the least efficient incandescent bulbs are outlawed. Efficient incandescent bulbs are not outlawed. Turn to page 86:
Rated Lumen Ranges \ Maximum Rate Wattage
1490–2600 lumens \ 72 W
1050–1489 lumens \ 53 W
Thus, for example, a 53 W to 71 W incandescent bulb is legal as long as it produces at least 1490 lumens. Or 73 W or higher bulbs are legal as long as they produce more than 2601 lumens. This is a hard target, but not impossible to meet for an incandescent bulb.
 
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mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
As long as I can still get candelabra bulbs for my fancy fixtures, I'm okay.

I've been using CFLs in most of my lights for years now. Use less electricity, less heat, never had a problem with them knock on wood. They last a long time. Unfortunately the savings in electricity has been more than offset by the sharp rise in hydro rates over the last few years. The government pissed a lot of money away on failed renewable energy projects, not to mention the Ontario gas plant scandal that cost over $1 billion.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,601
2,260
126
As long as I can still get candelabra bulbs for my fancy fixtures, I'm okay.

I've been using CFLs in most of my lights for years now. Use less electricity, less heat, never had a problem with them knock on wood. They last a long time. Unfortunately the savings in electricity has been more than offset by the sharp rise in hydro rates over the last few years. The government pissed a lot of money away on failed renewable energy projects, not to mention the Ontario gas plant scandal that cost over $1 billion.

Give a government an extra dollar to work with and it will spend a billion 'experimenting'. :whiste:
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
I jumped on the CFL bandwagon, then each expensive (GE brand) died a quick death, now I'm back to old school and yes, I'm stockpiling them...

Really? I must be having good luck or you're having bad luck. Many of the bulbs in my home are GE and have lasted years each. We're talking 5+ hours a day too.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Yup and those are the ones that produce THE BEST LIGHT!!
Tis a matter of taste.

And you can buy LED emitters at a 2700K color temperature with a good color rendering index - so you'd end up with something that would be virtually indistinguishable from an incandescent source.
But, warmer color temperatures and good CRI are a little more difficult to produce. The other challenge is consistent color temperature. And of course, difficulty in manufacturing equals more cost.
Cooler (bluer) colors are more readily produced because the manufacturing process currently causes them to be brighter, so you can put bigger lumen numbers on on your product packaging.

All of this adds up to the problem of a proliferation of crappy LED lighting products on the market, leading to the belief that LEDs are inherently lousy.



The situation with incandescents is just unfortunate. They are primarily heating elements, but ones which also happen to put out a small amount of visible light.
But, they're also easy to build and operate.
 
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mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Back then it was Safeway. What the hell is the big deal about light bulbs?

KT

They affect your comfort and the appearance of your home. There's also a pretty significant difference in cost. If you care about such things.
 
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