Anyone else looking forward to Wildstar?

[HumblePie]

Okay, this is basically the argument I keep reading here against this game, but in a different context for ease of understanding.

People dislike the latest action movie movie because it's popular, and "derivative" of all other action movie. I mean why can't they make the latest action move instead like a slasher horror! I mean I like slasher horrors and the latest action movie is just dull by comparison. If they made an action movie like a slasher horror I think that is the way to go. What do you mean there are already slasher horror movies out there? Of course I know there are slasher horrors out there. I know they are less popular compared to great action movies, but that is because they don't make action movies into slasher horrors. Seriously, if the movie studios would stop being so sterile, corporate, and risk adverse in their movie making decisions then great slasher horror movies would be made popular instead.

Ignoring the logical fact that while both movies are MOVIES, and they have similarities in the fact that both mediums are movies, they share very little else in common which is why they are filed into their sub categories. Even arguing slasher horror movies against monster horror, or psychological horror styles is pretty much pointless even if the horror movies tend to have slightly more similarities being that those movies are all horror based instead of comedy or another broad category.

You argue about a game based on the merits of what it fits into. What it does or doesn't do based on it's category. You compare it to games within its category. To do otherwise is stupid and pointless.

To argue against an entire category is something else completely though. If you argument is instead that you dislike theme park, story on rails driven RPG style MMOs, then that is an argument of a different color all together. But that argument is instead going to be one that is entirely subjective in nature with little objectivity at all. Nor do arguments such as "sterile" and "derivative" when talking about anything within a category that already has plenty of predecessors mean anything. No idea is new at this point. Everything is a derivative.

Instead many people are just randomly bashing with pointless remarks about a game individually like Wildstar. Of course, if you are the type of player that dislikes this genre then you are going to dislike Wildstar. But I have to ask why are you even playing or wasting your time talking about any game within this category of games? Seems like trollish behavior to me. To put into context, I don't like Romantic Comedies. Never have, and never will. I don't get upset when the latest romantic comedy movie is made. I don't go watch it. I don't disparage the latest romantic comedy online or with anyone else. I completely ignore the movies' existence. To do otherwise is to be a troll.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I take your point, but I can absolutely criticize art for being derivative and lacking any interesting new ideas. Especially if they're trying to sell it to me (and they are trying hard. I've never seen so many obvious marketing shills for a game before). It's time for the $100 million dollar theme park MMO model to die and I hope Wildstar is the last one. This kind of sterile, corporate, risk-averse game design is antithesis to what made the genre so exciting and fun in the first place.

Um, the aesthetics might be the same, but the art is scifi, western, with a faint touch of fantasy thrown in... Saying it's being derivative with "no" new ideas is like saying all shonen anime are being derivative and bring no new ideas. Yes, you caught us. HumblePie and me are totally shills. We'll go scurry off now.

 

[ewdotson]

I take your point, but I can absolutely criticize art for being derivative and lacking any interesting new ideas. Especially if they're trying to sell it to me (and they are trying hard. I've never seen so many obvious marketing shills for a game before). It's time for the $100 million dollar theme park MMO model to die and I hope Wildstar is the last one. This kind of sterile, corporate, risk-averse game design is antithesis to what made the genre so exciting and fun in the first place.

I'm pretty sure actual marketing shills are far less common than people like to make accusations about. There are simply too many people willing to do the work pro bono for it to make sense.

Seriously though, the art style is absolutely reminiscent of WoW. The settings are quite different and the gameplay is not at all the same. Does that mean the game will be a success? Not necessarily! To be honest, I don't see it, or any other game, being a true WoW-killer any time soon. But then, I'm also of the opinion that using WoW as a benchmark for the success or failure of an MMO is pretty silly. For me, a game doesn't have to last for years to have been worth my time.

 

[Wordplay]

I tried it during the open beta, but I just couldn't get into it. The opening levels just didn't do a good enough job of pulling me in. Also coming from SWTOR, which I no longer play, it was odd reading quest text again.

 

[asteldian]

I really see no reason to be on a thread regarding an MMO just to spout negativity, especially if it is purely opinion without having tried.

Me personally, the game holds no interest to me. I hate the art style and that is enough to put me off, active combat I like, but that is the new norm anyway so not a selling point (GW2, ESO already do active combat and I have no doubt most future ones will too). I disliked WoWs art style and had no interest in its gameplay either.

But that's me, I have no reason to hate on the game just because it holds no interest, I haven't played it either so aside from feeding my own ego with belief my uneducated opinion matters to others, there is no reason for me to spout disgust with the game. I despised WoW and everything about it, but hey, to each there own.

 

[KidNiki1]

i've really been holding off on playing a lot of the beta weekends because i dont want to get burned out when it actually gets released. however, what I have played was pretty enjoyable for me. i like the world, and there are a lot of funny bits in the dialogue here and there. i like the different races, and the classes seem pretty standard. i like the path concept, and how quests related to the path you chose help enhance your character. player housing looks pretty awesome. there seems to be a lot of flexibility in the ui, and lots of openness with regard to mods. the environment is pretty neat. i like exploring the zones.

yes,there are some similarities to wow (not really that surprising given the background of a lot of the people involved). but it is also different enough that i think i will enjoy playing it for a while.

the name reservation process was a bit of a debacle, but i think that was more of an issue with the website being frikkin bombarded.

overall, i feel pretty positive about it and am looking forward to playing.

 

[HumblePie]

I really see no reason to be on a thread regarding an MMO just to spout negativity, especially if it is purely opinion without having tried.

Me personally, the game holds no interest to me. I hate the art style and that is enough to put me off, active combat I like, but that is the new norm anyway so not a selling point (GW2, ESO already do active combat and I have no doubt most future ones will too). I disliked WoWs art style and had no interest in its gameplay either.

But that's me, I have no reason to hate on the game just because it holds no interest, I haven't played it either so aside from feeding my own ego with belief my uneducated opinion matters to others, there is no reason for me to spout disgust with the game. I despised WoW and everything about it, but hey, to each there own.

The art doesn't do really anything for me either. Although I will say the cartoony style of Wildstar isn't quite as "over the top" of stupidity as WoW is. I mean not everyone is running around with shoulder protectors as large as recliners on each shoulder. It is similar in that the characters are cartoony and that there is a very bright color palette used in the game. That's about it though.

Still, I am not put off on a game just because it doesn't have the graphics I prefer. Hell I loved games like Mega Man and Mario growing up and those are cartoony graphics too. I just think gameplay and fun values hold more with me than graphics. Unless the graphics are just BAD. This is why I can't get into games like minecraft and other voxel games. Ugh the graphics there just turn me off. There is a certain low bar threshold where the graphics will prevent me from playing a game no matter how good the rest of the gameplay is. Otherwise I'd still be playing a few older MUDs that are vastly superior in game play mechanics than any graphical MMORPG on the market.

Wildstar just has good gameplay, good combat, and plenty to do. The graphics, while not the type I prefer, aren't bad for what they are. Warplots, housing, dungeons, adventure zones, crafting, pvp, balance, raids, and combat are well done. They are all very polished. They have some UI problems still. They have a few minor bugs, nothing game stopping that I've seen. The game has a few quest typos, again nothing major. The game has an optimization for FPS problem with large numbers of people and/or effects going off in a small area. This was shown during the end of beta "event" the dev's did Sunday night. FPS for just about everyone there was at max 7 FPS. It wasn't a hardware problem at all, just a game code graphics optimization problem. But that sort of scenario isn't the norm for the game and I hope their testing on Sunday for it helps them fix it for live.

For me it's the first MMO that actually has ready at release everything it has promised to be in release and WORKING. That's major to me. Too many games just promise shit leading up to the end of beta, then take stuff out that doesn't work or leave it in completely broken by bugs. I'll look at a retail box for a game, read something on the box that is a promised feature, and see it doesn't work in the game. Everything promised for Wildstar is working as of the end of open Beta. I can't stress how big a deal that has been to me. Nothing turns me off on a game faster than broken shit. Prevents me from re-subbing. Guess it's the developer nature side of me that can't stand sloppy work.

That being said, there is one possible negative for me with this game. It's one of those double sided things. The game is HARD!!! High level raiding is HARD!!!! I effing love that. I know many people do not. I know many people I usually play with really just aren't that good at twitch style combat which is basically what Wildstar is. I really hope the devs don't dumb down the combat, raids, and bosses because many players just are incapable of being good enough to beat the content. Carbine has said they are adamantly against dumbing down anything which is good for me to hear. But I will state it may make many people leave the game when they reach max level and realize they aren't good enough to do some of the high end content. Which would suck on other levels of game play for the game.

 

[Clemenza]

I originally did not like this game. You can go back and read my posts regarding it. This past beta I gave it another shot and my opinion changed. There are some things that I don't like about it, mainly the art style, but the gameplay feels complete and not littered with bugs. I was a heavy proponent of ESO, and I enjoyed that game a lot but it just feels like developers are inept.

I pre-ordered last night and I am now looking forward to it mainly based off of the amount of content, the game play and the polish. I hope I'm not fooled again but this game really feels like they are doing the right stuff to make a good MMO.

 

[HumblePie]

I originally did not like this game. You can go back and read my posts regarding it. This past beta I gave it another shot and my opinion changed. There are some things that I don't like about it, mainly the art style, but the gameplay feels complete and not littered with bugs. I was a heavy proponent of ESO, and I enjoyed that game a lot but it just feels like developers are inept.

I pre-ordered last night and I am now looking forward to it mainly based off of the amount of content, the game play and the polish. I hope I'm not fooled again but this game really feels like they are doing the right stuff to make a good MMO.

That was basically me too. I initially signed up for beta because some friends did without even looking at the game. Then I got a beta weekend invite a long time ago. I looked at the game then and went, "What's this cartoony shit? Naw I'll skip" The other reason was my friends weren't doing those weekends to try it with them so I wasn't going to go at it solo.

The second to last beta weekend event before open beta, I got another invite. I was bored, looking to try anything, and said screw it. Gave the weekend a try and it was "decent" although I only got to level 7 as I didn't have much time to play. I got the next beta weekend event and decided to try a little more after reading a few reviews of others stating what all is in the game that is good. So I played level 14 that weekend and enjoyed it. So open beta I managed to get the first toon I tried to 21, tried a bunch of stuff and took all the other classes up to level 7ish or so. Like you said, I was turned off by the art, but since everything else is just so well done for this game, the cartoony graphics I was able to look past. In fact, they sort of grew on me a bit.

 

[ixelion]

can anyone tell me if the combat is deep in any way? Is there any strategy involved, would you have to approach different enemies in different ways or is it mostly repeating skill rotation?

 

[lupi]

I tried it on the open period. Graphics and stuff seemed fine to me. Only played for little over an hour though and game just seemed so slow. Didn't like how to dialogue boxes for quest always showed up as a small spot right over the person instead of a larger constant location off to the side.

 

[HumblePie]

can anyone tell me if the combat is deep in any way? Is there any strategy involved, would you have to approach different enemies in different ways or is it mostly repeating skill rotation?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wildstar+raiding

Watch a few of the raiding videos some of the beta testers did of the higher level 20 man raid dungeons.

 

[HumblePie]

I tried it on the open period. Graphics and stuff seemed fine to me. Only played for little over an hour though and game just seemed so slow. Didn't like how to dialogue boxes for quest always showed up as a small spot right over the person instead of a larger constant location off to the side.

All that is changable through the UI and addons. I use the Classic Quest Dialog Window addon that changes the quest boxes up completely into a moveable frame.

 

[HumblePie]

The first OPs week, guess you can call this random stress testing open beta 2 for now, had a big patch the other day. Massive nerfs to the stalker from what I saw. Along with the global PVP heal reduction. So heals in PVP aren't completely OP as they were previously. There were a few buffs to other character though. Spellsingers got a pretty hefty dps buff, but got a healing nerf for example. Which I'm not sure either was really warranted for the class.

 

[HumblePie]

Now this is why I like Carbine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0z_KD3LjoU#t=212

They are just huge on social media with the players.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

can anyone tell me if the combat is deep in any way? Is there any strategy involved, would you have to approach different enemies in different ways or is it mostly repeating skill rotation?

Combat revolved around everything being a skill shot so positioning is critical. Mobs have autoattacks, but the real meat of the combat is mobs telegraphed attacks, which come in all different shapes and sizes and require different maneuvers and timings to avoid (or just interupting them but you can't always do that). When you first start out the telegraphs are simple and almost ignorable, but it's to allow you time to train for them. Later, they start causing you attrition and on harder mobs/in dungeons they'll gib you.

As far as your skills, I think it depends on the class. I don't think there's any where you can just pound a simple rotation to max DPS, but warriors for example are mostly just use the biggest damage skill as it's off cooldown and the right procs as they happen. I know other classes have different innates that probably make for more complicated rotations, but I've mostly been playing warrior.

 

[Grimbones]

The real problem is that MMO's have all become mindless clones of one another...with the only real changes in gameplay being to add action combat--which has never really been done very successfully (see games like Ninja Gaiden on Xbox) in an MMO. The action combat is typically pretty repetitive, and it does not suit a game well that you are designed to play for countless hours.

I have argued this over and over that traditional MMO combat is not bad, and actually tends to work pretty well in MMO's, because there are so many times when you want to be planning your next attack, or strategizing the next move... Having a constant auto attack that you do not have to spam is nice...It should actually do damage that is not inconsequential also.

Despite the fact that most popular MMOs have thrived on traditional MMO combat, people keep telling me how action combat is the wave of the future, and i am not sure that is the case...

I am also not a huge fan of themeparks any longer, because every game has the exact same feel--and to the guy making the argument that you should not be able to make that argument that a game is "derivative"...you play MMO's for hundreds or thousands of hours...if a game feels like something you already put thousands of hours into it is a lot different than a 2 hour action flick...a lot different.

Go back to some of the basics and the genre will be fine. I am so sick and tired of MMO's leading me along by the nose...oh, and bring back the holy trinity, because the everyone can do everything argument does not work very well either...players have to be able to rely on others, or there will be no community, and the game will die because players will just move onto the next mmo...

I tried to keep this relatively short, and i did...trust me my views on this topic are as vast as the year is long.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Yet another I'm not going to talk about the actual game and how it actually plays just the ideas of the game. What matters is that the combat is fluid. There's nothing repetive or clunky about wildstar com bat. That's the number one thing that drew me in.

As far as theme park, I think there's still a place for it. Just like there's still a place for first person shooters. If they manage to deliver compelling content for all group levels as seems there intent I believe they'll at least hold a niche if not be out right successful.

Most MMOs recently release easy high end content with everything else being shit. So people just do that and it's over and if the devs dare make it challenging they're taking the game away from the casuals. Wildstar seems to be trying to make the whole game robust and challenging so there's a place for casuals outside of 40 mans. Granted, whether they succeed remains to be seen

 

[HumblePie]

Combat revolved around everything being a skill shot so positioning is critical. Mobs have autoattacks, but the real meat of the combat is mobs telegraphed attacks, which come in all different shapes and sizes and require different maneuvers and timings to avoid (or just interupting them but you can't always do that). When you first start out the telegraphs are simple and almost ignorable, but it's to allow you time to train for them. Later, they start causing you attrition and on harder mobs/in dungeons they'll gib you.

As far as your skills, I think it depends on the class. I don't think there's any where you can just pound a simple rotation to max DPS, but warriors for example are mostly just use the biggest damage skill as it's off cooldown and the right procs as they happen. I know other classes have different innates that probably make for more complicated rotations, but I've mostly been playing warrior.

Stalker is far more complicated for DPS and so is Esper. Some classes are bit easier. Get telegraph on target and spam your "builder" attack until you have enough for a finisher.

Stalkers are the only class in the game with single target attacks. Every other class, ALL dps abilities hit AoE from 3 to 5 monsters. Stalkers are unique in the single target skills. Which right now are broken dps wise in under performance with the last patch. Stalkers are also the worst on AoE. However, the reason I mentioned stalker is because many skills do more dps based on if the stalker is stealth or at the "back" of the target. Right now what is considered the "back" of the target for hitboxes in the game is frikking TINY!!! Stalkers also have the smallest telegraphs in the game for most of their attacks. Which means they have to be the closest to the target all time. It makes for a very tough position fight setup in dungeons and harder fights. With the last patch, their dps was nerfed into the toilet at almost all level ranges. However, the devs responded back already they realized they screwed the pooch on the nerfs for stalkers and are going to fix that asap. Hopefully before launch day.

Espers require a builder that setups Psi points (5 total) that can be spent on finisher abilities that require psi points. Some abilities you may want to use 5 points on, and others you want to use 1. Just all depends on what you are trying to do in the fight with your Esper. That, and getting psi points isn't always that easy.

Spellslingers can activate "surge" for a time frame. When they do, their surge points is drained to zero. While those points are draining, your abilities are more powerful. Some abilities will cause the surge bar to drain faster. Once drained, the surge bar starts to refill. You can let it refill to full, or you can activate surge mode at anypoint you have surge over 25 points (it is on a 100 scale). Fairly simple, but can be tricky if you need to time a certain skill for having a bigger affect for whatever reason and you need to wait for the appropriate amount of surge.

Engineers can be interesting with their bot interaction. That and their primary attacks tend to have a short delay before being used. It's not hard to use them, but takes some adjustment when you aren't used to it.

Medics, and warriors are pretty much button mashers. When an ability is up, you use it. At least that is my experience with them.

 

[HumblePie]

The real problem is that MMO's have all become mindless clones of one another...with the only real changes in gameplay being to add action combat--which has never really been done very successfully (see games like Ninja Gaiden on Xbox) in an MMO. The action combat is typically pretty repetitive, and it does not suit a game well that you are designed to play for countless hours.

I have argued this over and over that traditional MMO combat is not bad, and actually tends to work pretty well in MMO's, because there are so many times when you want to be planning your next attack, or strategizing the next move... Having a constant auto attack that you do not have to spam is nice...It should actually do damage that is not inconsequential also.

Despite the fact that most popular MMOs have thrived on traditional MMO combat, people keep telling me how action combat is the wave of the future, and i am not sure that is the case...

I am also not a huge fan of themeparks any longer, because every game has the exact same feel--and to the guy making the argument that you should not be able to make that argument that a game is "derivative"...you play MMO's for hundreds or thousands of hours...if a game feels like something you already put thousands of hours into it is a lot different than a 2 hour action flick...a lot different.

Go back to some of the basics and the genre will be fine. I am so sick and tired of MMO's leading me along by the nose...oh, and bring back the holy trinity, because the everyone can do everything argument does not work very well either...players have to be able to rely on others, or there will be no community, and the game will die because players will just move onto the next mmo...

I tried to keep this relatively short, and i did...trust me my views on this topic are as vast as the year is long.

And you know not which you speak of. Plainly put, you are talking out your ass. Exactly how many games have you designed? When was the last time you even ran a D&D campaign, let alone tried something with as simple as building a MUD? Or have you even tried something slightly more complicated with say messing around with the Unity engine?

I have done all those. I am an active professional developer. I have designed games. I am not talking out my ass. Too many people want the small scale cozy game environment similar to a D&D pen and paper session, but in a large MMO. To put it bluntly, such a scenario is impossible. I have many friends with dreams like that until I shatter them by talking about implementation of such a small scale fluid setup that would work for thousands of players. It can't. Well, not without a whole lot of GM involvement for all the players. Such a game would require a GM for every 5 players at least. But such a prospect is not feasible. Hence, the "themepark" mmo game design of at least streamlining player experiences through an already precrafted story line. Why go that route? Because open sand box games do not work on the large scale. Even games like Eve, which is the largest and thus most successful of that style of gaming, still only has a few hundred thousand (at very optimistic estimates) active accounts that play. Prime time for Eve for online players has rarely ever exceeded 100K players. While it is still a modestly successful game, it is peanuts compared to something like WoW or anything that comes close. Why? The majority of people want a STORY with a ROLE they play in it. Thus the theme park way of telling that story and the content involved.

If you don't like themepark MMOs, that's fine, go find one of the many of 1000's of which are available that aren't themepark and have fun. They won't have that many players though because they are not and never will be as popular. But they are out there. Bashing this game for being a themepark style MMO with a streamlined story to tell for the players (of which they do a REALLY good job at in this game) is stupid to do. Again it is akin to troll behavior in my opinion. Bashing the genre is one thing, and a bit fruitless if you ask me. Bashing a specific title within that genre just for the sake of being in that genre category is retarded.

 

[HumblePie]

This video explains it all for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kK-65p-BHc&feature=youtu.be

 

[smackababy]

I haven't been keeping up with the betas, so perhaps, someone can answer me this: is there a class that plays similar to hunter in WoW? Doesn't have to use a pet, per say, just ranged using guns / bows and skills based around that?

 

[HumblePie]

I haven't been keeping up with the betas, so perhaps, someone can answer me this: is there a class that plays similar to hunter in WoW? Doesn't have to use a pet, per say, just ranged using guns / bows and skills based around that?

Engineer has pets and guns. Spellslinger has guns as well. All classes are dps. Engineers can swap to tank loadout on the fly out of combat. Spellslinger can swap to heal loadout out of combat as well at any time. Esper has temporary summonable pets and uses range attacks too that aren't guns.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Engy is definitely the "hunter" equivalent. They have pets although it isn't like WoW where you tame pets. The pets are skills you put in your limited action set if you want to use them.

 

[pathos]

I haven't been keeping up with the betas, so perhaps, someone can answer me this: is there a class that plays similar to hunter in WoW? Doesn't have to use a pet, per say, just ranged using guns / bows and skills based around that?

Well, you have to remember, the combat for this game is very different from a game like wow, or traditional style mmo's. The combat is action based. So, it's hard to compare the combat to the old style mmo's. If you've played tera, or elder scrolls, the combat is closer to those 2 games, rather than wow. Also, I'll note, it's hard to call one class ranged, or not. Most of them have area affect skills, instead of just hitting 1 target in melee range, or ranged range (thats a rather awkward way to say it I guess).

So, say a soldier, which uses a sword, their skills come out at a 90 degree short cone. Can hit anything, say, 3 mobs wide, and 1, maybe 2 mobs deep. A spell slinger, which uses guns, (iirc) shoots in a straight line. Their area affect is very narrow, but very deep.

So, if you wanted to compare the hunter to wildstar, for the pets, then engineer would be the closest.

If you want to compare combat...then, it's hard to find a valid comparison. Spell slinger would probably be closest, though.