I take it as merely your opinion, and I think your pompous if you need to tell others how much enjoyment they are getting out of their computer.thats not my point. My point is that people are saying they need 60fps which is BS and that you need a $500 card to do so which is also BS. IQ on a $200 card these days playing modern racing games is more then adequate and will often dilver over 60fps.
I think the real reason so many feel they need massive FPS is becuase they will spend $700 on a card but neglect to buy the proper devices with which to pilot there endevors.
I had no problem playing NFS on a onboard geforce 8300 at medium settings at 1440x900 and routinely did well in both the game and online challenges. Most of this was due to the fact that I have a good control solution which makes the vehicle control better.
I think its a false paradigm. Poor performance in racing games has little to do with IQ or FPs and more to do with ability and a good method to control the car.
But I digress
On any given night there might be 40,000 people racing nascar etc on rfactor " combined public and private servers.
same reason as to why I was able to consistnely score well on halo CE running at super slow frame rates of 30fps and 1024x768 resolutions.
Its not about the hardware. It usually about proficiency and people who chase hardware usually have low proficiency. the only people who might be hardware capped are very talented players or professionals where the hardware could be a limiting factor but more then likely it is not and they will still kickass regardless of what system they are on.
So take that for what ya will.
I take it as merely your opinion, and I think your pompous if you need to tell others how much enjoyment they are getting out of their computer.
Have you driven a race car ? I have, I'm not after a complete simulation any more than I'm after fighting aliens in a nanosuit. I know what is giving me enjoyment.
And to race cars as a hobby, you can spend 500 dollars changing a carburetor, so stop worrying about other people so much.
I heard Appopin complain about not given the cards in time to give them a indepth review, mabe thats part of it?
i think mabe Ryan here at AT was waiting for 6850's also?
I do agree though, it seems I have to read 3 reviews to get my satisfaction and to make a conclusion.
Cloned Apoppin?
So would that be Apoppin Crossfire or SLI? Maybe an X2 card?
no, no, no, NO .. NO!this is the issue imho. both nv and amd want to keep their opponents guessing for as long as possible, so they give the cards to reviewers with as little time as possible to do their card reviews. how many calls do you think ryan smith gets from amd when they know he's doing the write up for his gtx 460 launch view: "come on ryan, how's it perform??? just give me an idea, dave baumann is bustin' my balls on this... etc". techpowerup, for example, has a HUGE number of cards in their database. it's not realistic for them to retest them every time a new driver comes out. and for other sites they are limited as to how many cards they can test with only a 24-48 hour window before the review needs to come out. also, there is immense pressure to get the review posted at the exact instant (or before in some cases) that the nda lifts so that they get more page hits.
overall the situation just sucks. going back to a launch article and "fixing" it doesn't generate the traffic. cleaning it up a bit is probably worth it, but adding in 17 cards or whatever should be a separate article say a month or so after launch.
Do you get it? *They* don't have a lot of time on a product launch especially if it is "time sensitive" -- like beating a competitor to a punch or getting out a product before the holiday season.I’d like to give folks extra time, but with competitive landscapes, that isn’t always possible.
My reasoning for the game engine to run as fast as possible is the same reason on board computers in our cars today take 100's of sensor readings from stability and abs systems. I want and get that same feeling at the nose of the car , twitching from left to right or whatever I want it do, immediately.
And not have to build up some internal lag compensation, as if I'm driving in snow. That is what I strive for in driving games. If I have less hardware I would turn down anything and everything to get that . Games have gotten better. Grid can not be set up to feel correct , at least to me, the way NFS shift, Dirt 2, and now with this new patch F1 does.
I'm sorry you can't grasp that I am doing this fine with a controller, I've used logitech's best wheels in the past , with Papyrus's nascar games. This is how I choose to 'race' now on the computer. I know its funner than those past experiences.
I'm not ruling wheel out, I'm doing fine at the moment. I have raced a BB LS6 for over 20 years.
I was checking out youtube videos of F1. A lot of people noted the game runs at 45-60 fps without FRAPs, but drops to 35-40 fps with FRAPs recording. Strange outcome. It seems you have ran into that too.
I did not say, a wheel ever gave me a bad experience. I was reiterating why I like having overkill for gpu power in racing games, and I am enjoying using the controller. I was not arguing against racing wheels. Just choose not to have one currently.you reflex measurements are most likely measured in hundreds of milliseconds at best on the order or .1 to .2 seconds whereas games are rendering far faster then that even at a lowly 24fps. Not to mention that the simulation and calculation of the wheel feedback etc is handled by the cpu where the physics calcs are typically processed. If driving feel isn't what you expect then its either your CPU is handicapping the simulation to physical input or the game is poorly coded.
You should look into Rfactor. Great game stellar modelling. Fiarly resource light and loads of fun. Lots of mod packs to and they game is pretty cheap. Lots of other games are built on the engine to. Rfactor F1 2010 is a fantatic game with great visuals for the resource budget and stellar feedback and driving controls.
Which wheel did you have ? I had my g25 modded for about $300 with bigger motor and better power supply etc. Its a night and day difference not that it was bad before.
BTW I practice my local SCCA track on Rfactor and we built the mod ourselves. its been pretty good as I cut my laptimes .2 on average. Its also great for alot of the other tracks we visit. Funny thing Is I don't drive competitivly but I do enjoy making laps and seeing what the driver are talking about in regards to vehicle performance.
So my needs are bit different. We started building our own motion simulation chair. should be pretty sweet.
What exactly are you complaining about ? You are always complaining about something. Its like if the results weren't what you expected you complain about the test, if you want nvidia cards to look the best in benchs, just run nvidia sponsored games. That should solve the problem.
trying to drive a race cars with a controller is like trying to balance the federal budget, both are futile efforts and even if you pull either off you'll never feel right about doing it.
Its not about the hardware. It usually about proficiency and people who chase hardware usually have low proficiency. the only people who might be hardware capped are very talented players or professionals where the hardware could be a limiting factor but more then likely it is not and they will still kickass regardless of what system they are on.
... In communist Russia very bad things happened to you if you decided to just "skip work" one day
Do you guys work this hard at your own jobs?
hhee...unfortunately no! You could skip many days at work in communist USSR. You could even drink on the job and still not get fired (or come to work drunk), unless you did something obscene like mingle a farm animal or something. This is why communism failed - there was no incentive to work harder and the government decided how much quantity of what items should be produced. Communism failed because the government isn't effective at balancing supply/demand, unlike market forces. It didn't fail because the people worked very hard and burned out lol
And there is a difference between working hard and showing up to work.
I know, that is kinda my point.There is no point in working hard if what you are producing are outdated/obsolete products and there is no economy to sell these goods to because people can't afford them.
I know, that is kinda my point.Fundamentally, even if you forced people to work as hard they could, the way USSR's communism was working, it would still fail.
You have a job like that?Sure, it is a hard job to be playing PC games all day long...
You have a job like that?
:awe:
Well I work from home but there hasn't been any work for a while so I play instead...(gaming relaxes me)
Now, obviously reviews take time and effort etc, but a lot of sites are "lacking" in their reviews, and I can't think of a single review site which is 'perfect' and offers up everything.
Not including "enough" cards in their reviews.
Using older drivers for older cards in their reviews
Number of tests/choice of tests: Many sites don't test many games
They run tests at specific settings, and don't analyse features, e.g. how cards scale with different AA settings. AT is one example of being guilt of this, for instance Crysis Warhead benchmarks. All with "Gamer" settings, no tests with higher quality shaders, and all with 4xAA.
Multi-GPU testing: often doesn't do much in depth discussion, e.g. talking about potential issues such as microstutter.
Maybe I just miss the days of paper launches when we got info about cards a long time before release, and websites had more time to benchmark and analyse the cards.
Anyone else feel on the whole hardware sites are letting us down in many ways?
No, that's not (always) the problem.Time is usually the limiting constraint when reviewing a launch card. Reviewers will sometimes get mere days before NDA runs out. If they don't get a review published, they will not get the page impressions because after the launch, interest goes down.
With no "perfect" review site, that's why you read multiple reviews. I wouldn't trust a single review of ANYTHING, be it graphics cards, or automobiles, or wireless service, or restaurant.
Again, this is a time issue, in addition to funding. Most sites receive free hardware for their reviews, and there's only so much free hardware to go around. Few sites make enough money to justify outright buying huge amounts of hardware for all their reviewers.
The main instance was TPU, which simply doesn't rebench older cards regularly it seems. Most sites don't have this problem.This is inexcusable, unless the drivers just came out after most of the review was already done.
It's only an issue of time if you do stupid things like including benchmarks at 1024x768 on a GTX580.Again, an issue of time.
I'm not saying test all combinations, just different levels of AA/AF, to see how they impact performance.What if they ran at different custom settings ignoring presets... and then we'll have someone complaining here that they don't run in the preset which they use. :sneaky: With all the settings possibilities, there is just no way to test all combinations.
It's not just microstutter, it's other things like what problems were there, did you have to make profiles, what happened with minimum FPS (too many sites don't give minimum FPS numbers)?Microstutter can be difficult to pin down. I've played with a lot of GTX 295 quad-SLI setups and some of them had it and some didn't. These were all using the same reference cards on the same two motherboards. Some did and some didn't. How are you going to "review" that?
LOL. AnandTech tries to do that when possible. See the recent "previews" on upcoming AMD platforms. AnandTech can only do as much as their NDA will allow them to publish. Of course a company can just give out the information earlier, but then we'll be getting reviews of hardware that may not be in the final state which may not be representative of the end user experience (resulting in more forum complaints ). And if hardware (and drivers) are in the final state, what incentive does a company have to not sell stuff that is ready to go? After all, if you're not trying to get ahead of your competition, you're falling behind.
Nope.
No. I compare 10-15 reviews and start to see trends where some results appear to be outliers (i.e., HD6850 in Fallout NV on Xbitlabs, or HardOCP's Civ5/ Metro results).
I only said that when Kyle tests videocards, he arrives at settings that he considers playable, not what other people may consider playable. When other websites test various resolutions with consistent settings, it's much easier to see how the videocard will perform at your resolution.
Not sure about your insinuation about me wanting NV cards looking better. I could care less. We are discussing testing methods in reviews.
So first you bash another person's opinion about wanting 60fps in a racing game, and then you 'impose' your own opinion on how racing fans MUST play the game (i.e., use a steering wheel)? Great logic. All I am saying is if HardOCP showed 2-3 different resolutions and settings, their reviews would be much better.
So now you are concluding that people buy faster hardware in racing games just to be more competitive/get faster lap times? Has it occurred to you that maybe they do it to enjoy the game more in single player mode due to increased image quality and less stuttering?
Its the dishonesty in the intention that strikes me as odd.
Saying you need high IQ in a racing game isn't all that sensiable. What you need are good accurate siht pictures and good accurate feedback for the simulation to be effective. I don't care about how texured the grass is. You shouldn't either, who would have time to look ?
So if people disagree with your opinion, they are wrong? Got it.
I care about image quality and choppy slowdowns during racing, which often happen when framerates drop from 60 to 40 or from 60 to 30 fps. I play for enjoyment, not to have the fastest lap times on the Internet or to win the most races online. To me playing videogames in general is just fun. To you it seems the only fun is when you are competing. So I enjoy racing games with a controller much more than the steering wheel. I take out my real car on the street for real world "feedback".
1) ...purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.