Anyone Have Solar Panels?

[BeeBoop]

Just came back from some party. Lady approached me and tried to upsell me solar panels for my home. She said that it's a 20 year lease at 65$ a month. If we sell the home, the panels stick with the home and we aren't hooked for the lease. Gave her my email and she's going to send me some more info.


Anyone know anything about solar panels? Any helpful information would be nice.

Questions off the top of my head are..

Who is responsible for the panel if one of them breaks? Twenty years is a long time, something will break in that time frame.


Does the solar panel store energy in a big battery for night use?


Can I realistically save money with solar? Solar needs to generate at least 65$ a month to cover the lease before I can start seeing a return. Is this feasible?

 

[Michael]

If you are doing a lease, then the company owning the asset (the leasing company) is responsible for the panels. In general, if a lease makes economic sense, owning makes more sense.

Michael

 

[Imp]

If you aren't hooked for the lease, then the person buying it will be... Think about that one from the buyer's perspective.

Batteries? Are you planning on going off-grid? Do you expect it to supply all your demand?

 

[BeeBoop]

Well, if the solar panels generate enough to cover the lease and more, it might be a good investment even to a buyer.


I don't expect to go off the grid or supply all of my energy needs though solar. It would be nice if solar generated enough to see a lower energy bill. She also said something about tax breaks. Anyone familiar about solar tax breaks?


Also, buying solar doesn't seem like a good idea unless I plan to live here for a full 20 years. Leasing seems like the better option especially if I do not have to do any of the repairs myself.

 

[DAGTA]

I think the tax breaks only apply if you buy, not lease.

 

[Paratus]

These are mine:

 

[DCal430]

I think the tax breaks only apply if you buy, not lease.

Actually the leasing company gets the tax breaks, and keeps it for themselves.

 

[Kaido]

Make sure to buy the mother of all transfer switches!!

http://www.milbankmfg.com/powergen/synap6-intelligent-integrated-automatic-transfer-switch.aspx

:awe:

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

are you talking about solarcity?

my friend was thinking about getting them installed.

 

[Blain]

Payback on purchasing a solar generation unit may well be sooner than 20 years, depending on your location, current electrical usage and the rates in your area.
Also, grid-tied units may involve fees or connection charges, again depending on your local utility.

Personally, I don't think at $65, it could be much more than a novelty system.

 

[lxskllr]

Unused power will go into the grid, and the electric company pays you. Realistically, you won't be getting a check every month, but your bill will be lower. You typically use batteries when you aren't on the grid at all, or I suppose as emergency backup.

 

[Puppies04]

OP these companies aren't out to do you a favour. They are making money. Save up and have panels installed yourself or don't bother, the potential headaches if you ever try to sell are huge.

 

[disappoint]

These are mine:

bwahaha

did you get any tax breaks?
do you send energy back to the grid?

that's a nice pic tho

 

[Red Squirrel]

I've considered it but my gut feeling is that somehow it ends up being more expensive or less beneficial than buying. They have to make their money. It's kinda like hot water heater rentals. Sounds good on the surface but really better to just own in the end.

You also want batteries. You'd look pretty silly if there's a blackout, you have 20 grand (or w/e) worth of solar panels on your roof, and still no power. I don't think a grid tie system can work on it's own, you need batteries as a buffer to provide a clean constant voltage to the inverters. The power that comes straight from the panels is very variable based on the sun. The batteries absorb power during the peaks and supply power during the lows, this is something that can change from one minute to the next as clouds pass by. The charge controller handles all this.

You also have to consider what to do about snow, but if you are saving tons of money in hydro costs then this is a small trade off. Get a long pole with broom and make it a morning routine. Small amounts of snow under a foot might slide off especially day time snow when the panels are producing a bit of heat as it will melt as it's falling.

If ever I get the cash I'd love to look into it myself but I'd want to buy a system and also have batteries.

 

[Michael]

The average home solar system does not have a battery. In California (net metering), they basically are not allowed if you want the net metering benefit. Typically the grid acts as your battery. The inverter converts DC to AC and supplies the house and the grid supplies whatever else you need.

A real battery system is quite expensive.

Michael

 

[Mark R]

So. Let me get this right.

A company wants to you install solar panels on your roof. They own the panels and pay for installation, and they get the tax breaks.

Presumably, when they say the lease is $65 per month, they're paying you the $65 a month to lease your roof? Is that right? In return, they get the tax breaks and the sale of the power?

Clearly if the installing company are getting the tax breaks, then it would be an absolute nonsense for you to pay them for the lease.

There is no power storage in a system like this - it's called a "grid-tie" system. The system plugs into the mains power, and when the solar panels are illuminated, it injects power into the grid. Ideally, you would use the power on site, but if there is more being generated than being used, then it will flow out into the grid. Depending on what your electricity company wants, they may either install a "reversible" power meter, which will run backwards when you are exporting power, or they will install a separate "export" meter, which records the amount exported separately to the amount "imported". Depending on your local power company and regulations, the export sale price may be lower than your import purchase price.

You do not need a transfer switch with a system like this. You just need a certified grid-tie inverter. These will automatically detect grid instability or grid failure, and will automatically shut-down and enter a lock-out mode, so that they cannot be restarted until stable grid power comes back.

 

[Blain]

"Net Metering" has varying regulations, depending on which state you reside in.

 

[maxi007]

yes , i have very little solar panel on my calculator

 

[dirtboy]

I recently signed a contract to purchase a 25 panel Sun Power system that should be installed by year end.

 

[rsutoratosu]

I looked into this for the past 10 years, if you do not get enough sun, you will not break even at all. If you want to store the power, you will need this dc/ac converter and room for battery.

As of now I have no room for battery so you are feeding the grid.

The issue is if you do not have a solid roof, ie brand new. When your roof nears repair, they need to come out and remove the panels and you may need to pay for that. It'll essentially cost you double to fix the roof. I will only do mine when I know I have a brand new roof that'll last 15-20 years.

You can also try to negotiate free roof repair & maintenance visits.


right now most panels are 25-40% efficient.. I wont convert till that number hits 60% +

Might be a few more years till that happens. By then ill have a new roof ready to put this on.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

I am getting solar installed on my house this week. The house is fairly new (< 10 years) and won't need roof replacement for a few decades. The solar company came to my house and did an analysis for my region. They provided me with a report on how much solar power I can expect on average each month of the year.

Information:

I am getting about 6 KW of power that will generate about $2500/yr at our current electric rates (more if you consider electric rates will rise)

Our power company in my area is very solar friendly and allows a tie-in with buyback

No battery bank as I am not going off-grid, just supplementing and lowering my bill

Total cost of install, including parts, labor, monitoring equipment, tie-in to eletrical grid: $26,000

Federal tax rebate (30%):$7,800

Total cost after rebate: $18,200

ROI: $18,200 / $2,500 = just over seven years

The panels have a 25 year warranty. Assuming rates never increase I can expect to generate $62,500 in eletricity over the life of the panels. Plus the panels add value to the house.

I am purchasing for a few reasons. The federal rebate provides great incentive. The ROI is 7 years on a 25 year product, which isn't fantastic but the solar panels also add value to the house. Also, historically electric rates simply do not drop, and so I expect to generate more than what was quoted ($62,500) because we are using todays rates vs. adjusted rates over the 25 years.


My advice: purchase a system outright and get the federal rebate. Have your solar company do a ROI analysis for you. Do not spend all the money on batteries to go off-grid. Too expensive. Use solar to lower/supplement your power bill.

 

[Lonyo]

Do you get the full rate? Because that seems silly. What you pay for electricity isn't for electricity, it's for electricity + grid maintenance, usually.
Also up front tax breaks are fine, long term ones are subject to political whims, so don't count on them for the long haul.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Do you get the full rate? Because that seems silly. What you pay for electricity isn't for electricity, it's for electricity + grid maintenance, usually.
Also up front tax breaks are fine, long term ones are subject to political whims, so don't count on them for the long haul.

The federal incentive is good though this year and next, I believe. It isn't a deduction. It is an actual refund.

We use a lot of power at my house, more than what we will generate. For my house I can simply look at what it would cost me to buy that power (about $.35/kWh once you add all the bullshit fuel fees, etc) and use that to calculate how much I am saving. I most likely will not sell any power back so what they are buying for doesn't matter to me - I am only concerned with what I don't have to buy. That won't be true for everyone, however, and it is in their interest to see what the power company buys excess power for and if they are friendly to tie-ins. A lot of municipalities are not because they can make power for cheap. In my area we literally burn diesel fuel as well as coal to supplement power demands and power can be outrageous.

 

[DesiPower]

Will you save $780 in electric bill in one year? I don't think so... My average bill $150, and as per my calculation I wont save that much.

Here are my main questions -
Will they upgrade to more efficient panels, in lets say, every 5 years or whenever there is a significant gain in efficiency? IMO, 10 years from now these panels will suck.

Are they smart grid compatible where I can sell electricity to the local power company if and when they have the capability?

 

[Blain]

I am getting solar installed on my house this week. The house is fairly new (< 10 years) and won't need roof replacement for a few decades. The solar company came to my house and did an analysis for my region. They provided me with a report on how much solar power I can expect on average each month of the year.

Information:

I am getting about 6 KW of power that will generate about $2500/yr at our current electric rates (more if you consider electric rates will rise)

Our power company in my area is very solar friendly and allows a tie-in with buyback

No battery bank as I am not going off-grid, just supplementing and lowering my bill

Total cost of install, including parts, labor, monitoring equipment, tie-in to eletrical grid: $26,000

Federal tax rebate (30%):$7,800

Total cost after rebate: $18,200

ROI: $18,200 / $2,500 = just over seven years

The panels have a 25 year warranty. Assuming rates never increase I can expect to generate $62,500 in eletricity over the life of the panels. Plus the panels add value to the house.

I am purchasing for a few reasons. The federal rebate provides great incentive. The ROI is 7 years on a 25 year product, which isn't fantastic but the solar panels also add value to the house. Also, historically electric rates simply do not drop, and so I expect to generate more than what was quoted ($62,500) because we are using todays rates vs. adjusted rates over the 25 years.


My advice: purchase a system outright and get the federal rebate. Have your solar company do a ROI analysis for you. Do not spend all the money on batteries to go off-grid. Too expensive. Use solar to lower/supplement your power bill.

$26k (upfront), for a 6kW system (installed), doesn't seem bad at all.
Are they mono or poly panels?