Anyone Have Solar Panels?

[Apple Of Sodom]

$26k (upfront), for a 6kW system (installed), doesn't seem bad at all.
Are they mono or poly panels?

They will be 24 CS6P-255M by canadian solar. Looks like mono-crystallone 6-inch cells.

What I like about the panels is it is a 10 year warranty on materials and workmanship and a 25 year waranty on linear power output. Solar panels degrade over time and this company guarantees it will be a linear decline for 25 years, with expected output at that time to be 80% of output at install.

 

[Adul]

I have a solar lease with Solar City and I been happy with it. It has really cut down on our bills with the power company especially in the summer months. We don't even break 200 bucks for summer where as we would be close to 400. I live in the Phoenix area. I haven't ran the numbers lately, but we have been saving more than the lease has cost and rates have gone up a few times since we gotten the panels.

Panels that die or have issues will be handled by the company the same goes for the inverter. They actively monitor the system and guarantee a min amount of power generation. If it falls below amount we will be credited x amount depending how short we are. I also found their estimates to be on the conservative side as far as how much power the panels would generate.

 

[dirtboy]

25 SunPower E-Series panels
25 year panel warranty

8.175kW system

$36,714 installed

$21,672 after all credits, rebates & incentives

Planning to purchase a BEV (battery electric vehicle) this year which I estimate will bring my breakeven to 5 years on the panels.

 

[Lonyo]

25 SunPower E-Series panels
25 year panel warranty

8.175kW system

$36,714 installed

$21,672 after all credits, rebates & incentives

Planning to purchase a BEV (battery electric vehicle) this year which I estimate will bring my breakeven to 5 years on the panels.

What will the breakeven on the BEV be?

 

[dirtboy]

What will the breakeven on the BEV be?

Haven't run the numbers. Since I'm replacing an existing vehicle it wasn't a factor, especially since the BEV will be considerably cheaper to maintain & operate than the car it's replacing.

 

[Paratus]

Just came back from some party. Lady approached me and tried to upsell me solar panels for my home. She said that it's a 20 year lease at 65$ a month. If we sell the home, the panels stick with the home and we aren't hooked for the lease. Gave her my email and she's going to send me some more info.


Anyone know anything about solar panels? Any helpful information would be nice.

Questions off the top of my head are..

Who is responsible for the panel if one of them breaks? Twenty years is a long time, something will break in that time frame.


Does the solar panel store energy in a big battery for night use?


Can I realistically save money with solar? Solar needs to generate at least 65$ a month to cover the lease before I can start seeing a return. Is this feasible?

bwahaha

did you get any tax breaks?
do you send energy back to the grid?

that's a nice pic tho

Taxes breaks? Sure if you call being paid for with tax dollars, tax breaks.



For the OP

Breakage: you don't want to know what you have to do when they break:

Needless to say our Robotics officer was a steely eyed missile man that day.


Batteries: Yup. More than enough batteries to fully power things through night. Of course night is at maximum only about 35 minutes long and sometimes disappears for three days.

Saving money: let's just at $10,000/lb taking gasoline up there to run a generator wasn't an option.

Hope this helped.

 

[lxskllr]

How did the break happen; space junk?

 

[Apex]

We've had our 6.5kW systems for almost 4 years now (since Jan 2011). Break-even point for us is about 5 years. Was about $18k after state and fed credits, if I remember correctly.

We have a pretty new near-flat roof.

 

[DrPizza]

One note with the grid-tie systems: when the power goes out, your power goes out. The inverter senses the condition of the grid and locks it out. That prevents linesmen who are working from being fried. I presume there's some sort of disconnect that can be added in; much like when you're running a generator. I don't know what the expense of that is though.

 

[MongGrel]

I've excess sunlight 99% of the year, and the roof is very solid as it used to have barrel tiles on it and it has great exposure on the pool side.

Just had never looked too far into it here myself, if I were I'd avoid a lease personally.

I do not like leasing anything, and yeah might fudge you're resale a bit.

 

[MongGrel]

We've had our 6.5kW systems for almost 4 years now (since Jan 2011). Break-even point for us is about 5 years. Was about $18k after state and fed credits, if I remember correctly.

We have a pretty new near-flat roof.

hmm, that looks interesting.

About the time I would do one of those I'd probably get hit with a hurricane

Wouldn't matter much if everything got ripped up I guess, we're actually a pretty non hurricane area, Tampa Bay hasn't been hit in decades.

Hope I didn't just hex myself he he.

 

[jpiniero]

Well, if you live in SoCal... Seems like during the 'Winter' months it doesn't generate enough sun, but during the summer you get a surplus.

 

[Imp]

Having lived in Canada all my life, I forget sometimes that some places actually get sun...

 

[Paratus]

How did the break happen; space junk?

The arrays were designed to be deployed and retracted. From 6inches thick to 110ft long and back.

The two arrays on top

We're retracted one at a time

On seperate missions

And moved to the port side and then re-deployed.

Well the first array bound up when we retracted it. It took us two unplanned EVAs to get it to retract all the way.



We thought we finally got it back in the box cleanly but it was still bound. When we re-deployed the array months later the guide wires bound and tore the array hinges before anyone noticed.

 

[MongGrel]

Yep, have a few things up there on the ISS I worked on myself.

Used to work with an engineer at Honeywell designed the robotic arm controller, the astronauts came into our tool room to get fitted to it att.

I won't name names etc, but loved working on those things till they shut the shop down over Senior Engineers protests and farmed a lot of mechanical work out.

I still do Aerospace and Aviation work, just a small shop elsewhere I guess.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Having lived in Canada all my life, I forget sometimes that some places actually get sun...

Hahaha yeah pretty much this.

I always think it would be cool to go solar, then I remember, we don't get enough sun to make it worthwhile.

Now if we could find a way to convert snow into energy...

 

[Red Squirrel]

One note with the grid-tie systems: when the power goes out, your power goes out. The inverter senses the condition of the grid and locks it out. That prevents linesmen who are working from being fried. I presume there's some sort of disconnect that can be added in; much like when you're running a generator. I don't know what the expense of that is though.

Yeah that makes sense.

You would also need batteries as I don't think you can really draw directly from the solar panels, well, you could, but you'd have appliances and stuff randomly turning on and off depending on how much the panels are producing (which changes by the minute, clouds, birds flying by, etc) and how much you're drawing. Batteries would even that out. Does not even need to be that big of a bank, 4x 100ah 12v marine batteries in a 48v configuration would be a good start.

If I were to do it I'd have a battery bank, and since you need a dump load, I would just distribute to the grid instead of to the dump load. Idealy I'd try to live without needing to rely on the grid and if I think I can do it I would just cancel the service unless I'm making more money from selling than what the delivery fee costs me.

 

[Paratus]

Yep, have a few things up there on the ISS I worked on myself.

Used to work with an engineer at Honeywell designed the robotic arm controller, the astronauts came into our tool room to get fitted to it att.

I won't name names etc, but loved working on those things till they shut the shop down over Senior Engineers protests and farmed a lot of mechanical work out.

I still do Aerospace and Aviation work, just a small shop elsewhere I guess.

Now I know who to blame!

 

[MongGrel]

Now I know who to blame!

*Ducks*

:biggrin:

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wait, did both of you actually go do work on the ISS at one point? That's awesome.

 

[DrPizza]

Yeah that makes sense.

You would also need batteries as I don't think you can really draw directly from the solar panels, well, you could, but you'd have appliances and stuff randomly turning on and off depending on how much the panels are producing (which changes by the minute, clouds, birds flying by, etc) and how much you're drawing. Batteries would even that out. Does not even need to be that big of a bank, 4x 100ah 12v marine batteries in a 48v configuration would be a good start.

If I were to do it I'd have a battery bank, and since you need a dump load, I would just distribute to the grid instead of to the dump load. Idealy I'd try to live without needing to rely on the grid and if I think I can do it I would just cancel the service unless I'm making more money from selling than what the delivery fee costs me.

No, batteries are not needed. Your appliances don't turn on and off. The inverter is in phase with the line coming into your house.

I think an easy analogy is with water. Imagine you're hooked up to the city's water supply. And, you drill a well and put in a water pump in your basement. Let's say that at time A, you're using 10 gallons per minute (LOL) in the shower, but your well pump is only providing 9 gallons per minute. The city water will pump 1 gallon per minute in, which you will be billed for. Let's say at time B, you're using 5 gallons per minute, and your well is pumping 7 gallons per minute. Your extra 2 gallons per minute flow out of your house into the city water system, and your meter "runs backwards." But, the water from the city and water from your well is identical. Your shower can't tell the difference, nor can it tell the difference which source it came from. (There are two different types of metering in this case, some that do, more or less, run backward, and some systems have separate meters for the amount that goes out, and the amount that comes in.)

Also, batteries can add a huge expense to the system. While the photovoltaic panels have lifespans of 25 or more years, the batteries have lifespans far less than that. E.g. a decent marine battery runs around $100. At a guess, you'd need a couple dozen of them, and would replace them roughly every 5 years (wild guesses by me).

 

[BeeBoop]

Lots of good info here. Thanks guys. Really love that picture of the electric bill.

 

[MongGrel]

Wait, did both of you actually go do work on the ISS at one point? That's awesome.

No, I've never went up there myself, much as I would love to.

Just have been a supporter making parts myself over the years

 

[DCal430]

No, batteries are not needed. Your appliances don't turn on and off. The inverter is in phase with the line coming into your house.

I think an easy analogy is with water. Imagine you're hooked up to the city's water supply. And, you drill a well and put in a water pump in your basement. Let's say that at time A, you're using 10 gallons per minute (LOL) in the shower, but your well pump is only providing 9 gallons per minute. The city water will pump 1 gallon per minute in, which you will be billed for. Let's say at time B, you're using 5 gallons per minute, and your well is pumping 7 gallons per minute. Your extra 2 gallons per minute flow out of your house into the city water system, and your meter "runs backwards." But, the water from the city and water from your well is identical. Your shower can't tell the difference, nor can it tell the difference which source it came from. (There are two different types of metering in this case, some that do, more or less, run backward, and some systems have separate meters for the amount that goes out, and the amount that comes in.)

Also, batteries can add a huge expense to the system. While the photovoltaic panels have lifespans of 25 or more years, the batteries have lifespans far less than that. E.g. a decent marine battery runs around $100. At a guess, you'd need a couple dozen of them, and would replace them roughly every 5 years (wild guesses by me).

Well I think it depends how your electric provider nets out the electricity. My provider does monthly netting, but only pay less than 50% of the rate they charge on any surplus after a 30 day netting.

If in May you use 750kwh but produce 950kwh you will surplus of 200 and get credit for 5 cents * 200 or $10.

If in June you use 1250kwh but produce 1100kwh you will have deficiency of 150 and be charged 12 cents * 150 or $18.

So you will pay $8 total for May and June.

With a battery you can constantly store all excess so for May and June it would be 2000 used with 2050 produced. So you would owe nothing, and have 50kwh left over to use in July.

 

[jpiniero]

Yeah, one thing you have to keep in mind that the credit you get for sending electricity to the grid isn't going to be as generous as it is today in the not too distant future. Like if that guy still got charged 24-25c for taking from the grid but only got 5c for sending to the grid.