Anyone here work for an IT/strategy consulting company?

SeductivePig

Senior member
Dec 18, 2007
681
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81
Curious as to how someone transfers into that kinda thing.

I'm an electrical engineer right now with 4 years of experience by next year in the power industry - consulted for a fortune 10 oil company for 3 of those 4 years.

I'm aware that a paycut will happen (I'll be pulling roughly $5600/month next year, or $95-100k pre tax).

Really interested in companies like Deloitte/Accenture, due to the work environment. I enjoy fast paced work, things to be constantly changing, team based efforts, and travel.

The problem is, I know people who take entry level jobs at those kinds of firms get worked to death, and I don't think I should be at the entry level. Feel like I'm too old for it (I'm 27 this July).

An MBA is out of the question, still paying off undergrad loans.

I'm mostly interested in the business side of things, but don't really think management consulting is where I'd want to go. Probably business/IT alignment. I'm sure there are many other firms that do that kind of thing.

Would my only option be to start from the bottom? I have heard that entry level grads get put into fields like systems integration consulting, which is interesting to me as it can lead to M&A type fields. Not really sure. I don't have any formal programming experience and don't know too much about finance either.
 
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Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
4 years experience next year? So 3yrs experience? lol.

I wouldn't focus as much on the money aspect early on. Get into what you want to do, then start demanding more money as you become an expert.
 

SeductivePig

Senior member
Dec 18, 2007
681
8
81
4 years experience next year? So 3yrs experience? lol.

I wouldn't focus as much on the money aspect early on. Get into what you want to do, then start demanding more money as you become an expert.

Yeah, I plan to move next year. Have financial obligations to meet this year before I can move.

I totally agree with you about the money, but I just felt that having 4 years of consulting experience should put me a bit above entry level. Would be ok moving down to $60-65k but not less than that.

Accenture sucks.

I agree with you, for entry level at least. I'm thinking to get my foot in the door at another company before moving to the big ones.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,930
5,802
126
a developer i used to work with previously worked at accenture. he had his degree from university of phoenix and was a terrible developer. it made me jaded on that company just because of that 1 person lol.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,905
2
76
When Accenture came to my old company they canned everyone that knew anything except one person from each group and then had that one person train and lead a team of Indians living in India.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Does IBM Business Consulting Services count?

Either way, it sucked. They try to cram standardized one size fits all solutions down their customers throats in order to save IBM money. Creative solutions to problems were practically banned.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
Oh hello me. Currently I work in at an IT consulting firm doing process improvement, ERP implementation, and business intelligence. Before that I was an IT guy and auditor with a CPA.

Unfortunately, these firms tend to be highly selective in who they hire. Unless you already have experience in a related field it is going to be extraordinarily difficult for you even with networking. You are competing with 3.5+ GPA new grads willing to work 65+ hours a week for $60k/year. If you get hired as an experienced hire they will expect that you already know how to do your job and can hit the ground running with minimal training.

The easiest way to transfer is to get an MBA or equivalent business certification(CPA, CFA, etc). However, since you already ruled that out your best bet is try and transfer internally at your company. Once you have the relevant experience then you can transfer to a consulting company as an experienced hire.

The best area to learn right now is business intelligence. If you know SSIS, SSAS, and BI software you can make $$$. System integration work is largely low skill, monotonous, and boring. Also make sure that you have a full understanding of how modern business processes work and the underlying technical support systems(ERP, CRM, etc.).

Best of luck in your transition, it won't be easy.
 

SeductivePig

Senior member
Dec 18, 2007
681
8
81
Oh hello me. Currently I work in at an IT consulting firm doing process improvement, ERP implementation, and business intelligence. Before that I was an IT guy and auditor with a CPA.

Unfortunately, these firms tend to be highly selective in who they hire. Unless you already have experience in a related field it is going to be extraordinarily difficult for you even with networking. You are competing with 3.5+ GPA new grads willing to work 65+ hours a week for $60k/year. If you get hired as an experienced hire they will expect that you already know how to do your job and can hit the ground running with minimal training.

The easiest way to transfer is to get an MBA or equivalent business certification(CPA, CFA, etc). However, since you already ruled that out your best bet is try and transfer internally at your company. Once you have the relevant experience then you can transfer to a consulting company as an experienced hire.

The best area to learn right now is business intelligence. If you know SSIS, SSAS, and BI software you can make $$$. System integration work is largely low skill, monotonous, and boring. Also make sure that you have a full understanding of how modern business processes work and the underlying technical support systems(ERP, CRM, etc.).

Best of luck in your transition, it won't be easy.

That sounds a lot like what I'd like to do.

I'm not against the idea of working 65 hours a week, just don't want to go in the 80 range.

I was thinking to get hired at a less selective company and jump ship every now and then until I have the experience to get into a bigger firm.

I don't see why competition is an issue, for near entry level jobs - I have an EE degree from Purdue and solid consulting experience under my belt.

I have very solid contacts in the industry who could get me an interview.

Can you provide further insight? I like your thought process, very solid info.
 

heymrdj

Diamond Member
May 28, 2007
3,999
63
91
If you're making your bank, I'd stay in your job and pay off the loans. You will get moved to entry level without the certs, and I find 60 to be a laughable pipe dream. IT is getting hammered salary wise, cuts cuts and more cuts. The average Systems Engineer in our company makes just above 40K pre tax.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
That sounds a lot like what I'd like to do.

I'm not against the idea of working 65 hours a week, just don't want to go in the 80 range.

I was thinking to get hired at a less selective company and jump ship every now and then until I have the experience to get into a bigger firm.

I don't see why competition is an issue, for near entry level jobs - I have an EE degree from Purdue and solid consulting experience under my belt.

I have very solid contacts in the industry who could get me an interview.

Can you provide further insight? I like your thought process, very solid info.

It's hard to give your more specific advise until I know the extent of your work experience. From your initial description it seemed like you did more technical power/EE work rather than business work.

Have you considered going to any networking and industry events in your area? Usually consulting firms go to these to make connections and find work. If you can convince them that you know your stuff then they might be willing to give you a shot, but it will take time and a lot of effort on your part. You really need to "Wow" them when they interact with you.

Has your company ever brought in outside consultants? Another common way into consulting is to prove your worth on a project from the client side and then ask them for a job.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
If you're making your bank, I'd stay in your job and pay off the loans. You will get moved to entry level without the certs, and I find 60 to be a laughable pipe dream. IT is getting hammered salary wise, cuts cuts and more cuts. The average Systems Engineer in our company makes just above 40K pre tax.

Yup. Right now the key is to be specialized in enterprise level solutions. A good ERP/BI consultant can still bill $125+/hour in the Chicago market. Keep in mind that you also need the relevant work experience and presentation skills to back up that salary. It's hard to make it initially but totally worth it.
 

heymrdj

Diamond Member
May 28, 2007
3,999
63
91
Yup. Right now the key is to be specialized in enterprise level solutions. A good ERP/BI consultant can still bill $125+/hour in the Chicago market. Keep in mind that you also need the relevant work experience and presentation skills to back up that salary. It's hard to make it initially but totally worth it.

That's where the entry level comments came in. I know when I'm looking for Consultants I need to see valid in field examples of them being a grunt deploying that solution. Because I need to see the people that have been humbled by over promised systems that could get the job done that also realise there's limits to everything. I don't need a yes man, I need someone that knows the technology and what it's capable of. Of course, during their time as a grunt, they were making 40-50K working long hours and caught between the over promise and the technical incapability.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
You're 4 years out of college? What degree(s) do you hold? What has your professional experience generally entailed?

I'll say this up front - you're doing well for 4 years out of college. In your shoes, I probably wouldn't advise leaving that for consulting unless you can generate some interest with a top firm. Don't go to a body shop just to be in consulting - the hours will be the same, but the people around you won't be as smart, the problems won't be as challenging, and the pay won't be where you're at today for some time.

I'm not much for "firm prestige" but I will say there's a difference in what you experience in the top firms. If your preference is strategy work, your career development will benefit greatly working with McKinsey, BCG, or Bain - although I'd throw Deloitte's S&O and Booz's strategy group (I think it's called Strategy& or something else ridiculous now) as good places to develop.

If you're into technology work, take a hard look at Deloitte. IBM and Accenture have some name recognition, but (just my opinion) a lot of their engagements are probably going to be things you can find your way into in-house without the grind of being a consultant. Deloitte does some of that too - and I don't follow it very closely nowadays, but they'd been able to keep their rates up and do more in IT strategy than implementation work. Accenture probably does more advisory work than IBM, who by its nature as a software and hardware company as well, tends to push its own products. Some find getting deep into one product stack pretty interesting, but I avoided IBM for that reason. I've also seen them take on a little more staff augmentation work than I'd want to be involved in - that's not really consulting. As you dive into the smaller firms, you run the risk of finding a body shop doing entirely staff augmentation work, and I guarantee you won't enjoy that.

As far as pay, I don't really want to get into specifics on where I went, but I transitioned to consulting about 4 years out of undergrad. I'd been doing business intelligence, data warehousing and analytics in that period of time, and I didn't go over as entry level. If you have some related experience and interview well, you'd probably be ok looking at L2's (meaning level 2, the titles vary by firm). Pay can approach what you're making now, however, by the up or out nature of the firms I mentioned, you'll either surpass that number in a couple of years... or be out.

All of the above presumes you have some marketable experience, decent enough grades (although mine weren't great) and are good with people - the first two will land you interviews, but you need some people skills to get the job. You'd be surprised how much of the interview process is just about comfort.

I haven't posted here in months, but I saw this thread and this is a similar transition to one that I made earlier in my career. I'm no longer in consulting, but it was a good move and opened some doors, even if I'm honest and tell you I didn't love consulting. I've also spent a lot of time in large companies who bring in consultants, so fair or not, I have a certain perception of what firms' strengths tend to be. Of course, entirely my opinion, nothing else.
 
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SeductivePig

Senior member
Dec 18, 2007
681
8
81
Yup. Right now the key is to be specialized in enterprise level solutions. A good ERP/BI consultant can still bill $125+/hour in the Chicago market. Keep in mind that you also need the relevant work experience and presentation skills to back up that salary. It's hard to make it initially but totally worth it.

I don't think I would qualify to be an independent consultant if that's what you're getting at.

That's where the entry level comments came in. I know when I'm looking for Consultants I need to see valid in field examples of them being a grunt deploying that solution. Because I need to see the people that have been humbled by over promised systems that could get the job done that also realise there's limits to everything. I don't need a yes man, I need someone that knows the technology and what it's capable of. Of course, during their time as a grunt, they were making 40-50K working long hours and caught between the over promise and the technical incapability.

I also don't really see myself as wanting a hardcore software developer or implementation type role.. need something more aligned with business intelligence/analysis. The closest reference I can think of is management consulting, but thats very far off, if ever. I want to get into something that has team based projects, lots of travel, a client facing role, and a "business" type environment.

You're 4 years out of college? What degree(s) do you hold? What has your professional experience generally entailed?

I'm 4 years out next year, with an electrical engineering degree from Purdue. My professional experience has been technical consulting for various firms, most of it done in house. After my first year my company moved me to an oil refinery where I have been doing power systems analysis, and lately I have been getting more involved in design and business development. The work I do is extremely technical, and I have also been involved in the proposal/reporting/financial side of things lately.

I'll say this up front - you're doing well for 4 years out of college. In your shoes, I probably wouldn't advise leaving that for consulting unless you can generate some interest with a top firm. Don't go to a body shop just to be in consulting - the hours will be the same, but the people around you won't be as smart, the problems won't be as challenging, and the pay won't be where you're at today for some time.

I highly doubt I am anywhere near qualified for a top firm. I'd be shooting for lower level firms since I have no formal training or experience in the area.

I'm not much for "firm prestige" but I will say there's a difference in what you experience in the top firms. If your preference is strategy work, your career development will benefit greatly working with McKinsey, BCG, or Bain - although I'd throw Deloitte's S&O and Booz's strategy group (I think it's called Strategy& or something else ridiculous now) as good places to develop.

I would think strategy is within my interests, but my impression was that you need to have significant technical experience before moving into a role like that. I don't have the experience needed, or even the skills. Management consulting is very interesting to me but I feel that given my age (27 this July), it's too late for me to enter that without an MBA, which I cannot afford, and highly doubt I would get into if I am shooting for a top 5 program.

If you're into technology work, take a hard look at Deloitte. IBM and Accenture have some name recognition, but (just my opinion) a lot of their engagements are probably going to be things you can find your way into in-house without the grind of being a consultant. Deloitte does some of that too - and I don't follow it very closely nowadays, but they'd been able to keep their rates up and do more in IT strategy than implementation work. Accenture probably does more advisory work than IBM, who by its nature as a software and hardware company as well, tends to push its own products. Some find getting deep into one product stack pretty interesting, but I avoided IBM for that reason. I've also seen them take on a little more staff augmentation work than I'd want to be involved in - that's not really consulting. As you dive into the smaller firms, you run the risk of finding a body shop doing entirely staff augmentation work, and I guarantee you won't enjoy that.

I have always felt that I would have a fair shot at an entry level role in Accenture for systems integration consulting - I have the contacts to get me an interview, I have consulting experience, and I can probably learn enough technically on my own to get my foot in the door. A friend of mine, former roommate, did an internship at Amex then went to ACN as a systems integration consultant, then eventually moved into management consulting. My theory is to get into systems integration, then possibly transition into management consulting for several years, at which point I would exit into industry in my early thirties.

As far as pay, I don't really want to get into specifics on where I went, but I transitioned to consulting about 4 years out of undergrad. I'd been doing business intelligence, data warehousing and analytics in that period of time, and I didn't go over as entry level. If you have some related experience and interview well, you'd probably be ok looking at L2's (meaning level 2, the titles vary by firm). Pay can approach what you're making now, however, by the up or out nature of the firms I mentioned, you'll either surpass that number in a couple of years... or be out.

How would I get the experience required to come in at the L2 level though?

All of the above presumes you have some marketable experience, decent enough grades (although mine weren't great) and are good with people - the first two will land you interviews, but you need some people skills to get the job. You'd be surprised how much of the interview process is just about comfort.

I have good experience in an unrelated area but the soft skills I gained would transfer over, I think. My grades were not good but given that I have a brand name client on my resume along with a Professional Engineering license, and 4 years of experience, would a company like Accenture even care about my GPA for an entry/L2 level role?

I haven't posted here in months, but I saw this thread and this is a similar transition to one that I made earlier in my career. I'm no longer in consulting, but it was a good move and opened some doors, even if I'm honest and tell you I didn't love consulting. I've also spent a lot of time in large companies who bring in consultants, so fair or not, I have a certain perception of what firms' strengths tend to be. Of course, entirely my opinion, nothing else.

Appreciate the advice guys. See bold please.

I will list below what I dislike about my job:

1) There is no opportunity to network on the job. I never meet reliable contacts.
2) There is zero travel. I sit in the same cubicle every day, in the same offices.
3) I have to commute 1.5 hours roundtrip from M-W, and 3 hours roundtrip Th-F.
4) I will hit a pay ceiling next year.
5) There isn't much variance in work. I've been doing the same thing for years.
6) The subject material is very dry and uninteresting.
7) I can reasonably expect to be doing the same thing the rest of my life if I stay in the industry.
8) People I work with are all older.
9) The work is done solo - this is killer for me. Social isolation has seriously messed me up.
 
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sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
4 years out with some decent work experience, and no, I don't think your grades matter. People have heard of Purdue, it's a good school, and the PE shows the ability to acquire some kind of depth. I'll be honest, you're probably not going to one of the top 3 firms just yet - but getting there isn't out of the question. As you get up into the "better" firms, you do find that they tend to hire generalists at the lower ranks. Smart people that can solve problems and adapt to situations. Of course, they're hiring the best generalists, and a lot of those are joining them right out of top schools - either undergrad or grad. As you progress as a consultant, you're generally expected to start concentrating and getting depth either in a specific functional specialty (things like BI and data warehousing, ERPs, big data, etc, if we're talking tech consulting; operations, capital markets, human capital, strategy if we're talking management consulting) or industry specialization, or both depending on the firm. That starts to happen around L3, but really becomes serious at L4 (which is generally the "manager" level at many firms).

I obviously don't know you and how well you present in person, but your focus should be on transferable skills - you won't be designing electronics, but a lot of common skills go into that - analysis, critical thinking, requirements, negotiation, etc. The next question any HR person is going to have about you is why the hell you're applying. Your better bet is to try and do some networking, even if its worst case finding the right people on LinkedIn, introducing yourself, and seeing if they're up for getting coffee. I imagine not a lot of PEs jump to consulting, and they're going to need to know why you're motivated.

You might be trying to sell yourself as an L1 on potential, since it sounds like you don't have transferable experience, even if you do have transferable skills, and I assume the ability to think and make effective decisions. It's a grind at every level - the hours are shit, the pressure to bill is high, and then there are firm activities that really aren't optional. I wouldn't do this with a wife and kids, which is why I don't anymore.

That said, I was a consultant back when the recession hit. Layoffs hit hard, but I managed to stay on because I was able to align myself to what was then a recession-proof industry - public sector consulting. We were (are) a big firm, but the public sector practice was still in a growth phase and things worked out. Some performance-based actions hit my team pretty hard and I ended up in a role normally done 1 or 2 levels up. We were doing some fairly technical stuff and I had a bunch of recent college grads working for me with totally unrelated backgrounds - the one that sticks out the most was the kid with a finance degree that I had reworking bad code. Point is, smart people can adapt, and he learned fast, was really fucking good, and now he does M&A at some bank probably making 3X what I do now.

Gotta add, though, don't do this just because you think the travel will be fun. Yeah, you travel, but probably not to places you want to go unless you get yourself on an engagement in a city you happen to like. That's the other thing - once you get hired, you basically spend the next phase trying to internally network your way onto a project. I found getting off the bench was harder than getting hired in the first place!

Start by seeing if you can get coffee with a talent person at a firm you like (meaning their own in-house recruiter, not a 3rd party recruiter), or an existing consultant. Talk about what you want to do and see if there's any opportunity to demonstrate your ability. These firms see people as their product (although I'd argue the product is the billable hour) - so being able to win over the gatekeepers is a big test.

What city are you in now?
 

SeductivePig

Senior member
Dec 18, 2007
681
8
81
4 years out with some decent work experience, and no, I don't think your grades matter. People have heard of Purdue, it's a good school, and the PE shows the ability to acquire some kind of depth. I'll be honest, you're probably not going to one of the top 3 firms just yet - but getting there isn't out of the question. As you get up into the "better" firms, you do find that they tend to hire generalists at the lower ranks. Smart people that can solve problems and adapt to situations. Of course, they're hiring the best generalists, and a lot of those are joining them right out of top schools - either undergrad or grad. As you progress as a consultant, you're generally expected to start concentrating and getting depth either in a specific functional specialty (things like BI and data warehousing, ERPs, big data, etc, if we're talking tech consulting; operations, capital markets, human capital, strategy if we're talking management consulting) or industry specialization, or both depending on the firm. That starts to happen around L3, but really becomes serious at L4 (which is generally the "manager" level at many firms).

I obviously don't know you and how well you present in person, but your focus should be on transferable skills - you won't be designing electronics, but a lot of common skills go into that - analysis, critical thinking, requirements, negotiation, etc. The next question any HR person is going to have about you is why the hell you're applying. Your better bet is to try and do some networking, even if its worst case finding the right people on LinkedIn, introducing yourself, and seeing if they're up for getting coffee. I imagine not a lot of PEs jump to consulting, and they're going to need to know why you're motivated.

You might be trying to sell yourself as an L1 on potential, since it sounds like you don't have transferable experience, even if you do have transferable skills, and I assume the ability to think and make effective decisions. It's a grind at every level - the hours are shit, the pressure to bill is high, and then there are firm activities that really aren't optional. I wouldn't do this with a wife and kids, which is why I don't anymore.

That said, I was a consultant back when the recession hit. Layoffs hit hard, but I managed to stay on because I was able to align myself to what was then a recession-proof industry - public sector consulting. We were (are) a big firm, but the public sector practice was still in a growth phase and things worked out. Some performance-based actions hit my team pretty hard and I ended up in a role normally done 1 or 2 levels up. We were doing some fairly technical stuff and I had a bunch of recent college grads working for me with totally unrelated backgrounds - the one that sticks out the most was the kid with a finance degree that I had reworking bad code. Point is, smart people can adapt, and he learned fast, was really fucking good, and now he does M&A at some bank probably making 3X what I do now.

Gotta add, though, don't do this just because you think the travel will be fun. Yeah, you travel, but probably not to places you want to go unless you get yourself on an engagement in a city you happen to like. That's the other thing - once you get hired, you basically spend the next phase trying to internally network your way onto a project. I found getting off the bench was harder than getting hired in the first place!

Start by seeing if you can get coffee with a talent person at a firm you like (meaning their own in-house recruiter, not a 3rd party recruiter), or an existing consultant. Talk about what you want to do and see if there's any opportunity to demonstrate your ability. These firms see people as their product (although I'd argue the product is the billable hour) - so being able to win over the gatekeepers is a big test.

What city are you in now?

Awesome advice, appreciate it. I am in Chicago.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Oh hello me. Currently I work in at an IT consulting firm doing process improvement, ERP implementation, and business intelligence. Before that I was an IT guy and auditor with a CPA.

Unfortunately, these firms tend to be highly selective in who they hire. Unless you already have experience in a related field it is going to be extraordinarily difficult for you even with networking. You are competing with 3.5+ GPA new grads willing to work 65+ hours a week for $60k/year. If you get hired as an experienced hire they will expect that you already know how to do your job and can hit the ground running with minimal training.

The easiest way to transfer is to get an MBA or equivalent business certification(CPA, CFA, etc). However, since you already ruled that out your best bet is try and transfer internally at your company. Once you have the relevant experience then you can transfer to a consulting company as an experienced hire.

The best area to learn right now is business intelligence. If you know SSIS, SSAS, and BI software you can make $$$. System integration work is largely low skill, monotonous, and boring. Also make sure that you have a full understanding of how modern business processes work and the underlying technical support systems(ERP, CRM, etc.).

Best of luck in your transition, it won't be easy.

Meh, coming from someone else in ERP consulting/implementation, people that are experienced in things like O&G industry is pretty damn good. That makes up a good amount of client base depending on location.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Gotta add, though, don't do this just because you think the travel will be fun. Yeah, you travel, but probably not to places you want to go unless you get yourself on an engagement in a city you happen to like. That's the other thing - once you get hired, you basically spend the next phase trying to internally network your way onto a project. I found getting off the bench was harder than getting hired in the first place!

Truth. Once you hop in you have no credentials. And no - your resume and previous job experience is not credentials. Credentials is experience with past engagements. You will come in with 0. So no one knows you and thus no one wants you.

It's tough to get on engagements unless they hire you in desperation to immediately toss you on one.
 
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