Anyone know anything about home generators?

[JoeyM]

After losing power for four days because of the storm last week (starting on the day I loaded the fridge and freezer from shopping at Costco), I have decided I need a generator. My friends with portable home generators all-and I mean 100%-say get the expensive Generac that goes on automatically rather than the portable model. I really only need the water pump, the furnace, and the refrigerator to be on but internet, telephone, garage door opener, stereo, lights, and gasoline pump would be great. I think I can live without AC for a few days. I have a propane tank (for pool heating, BBQ, and stove), so gas line for the generator won't be a problem. We lose power occasionally for a couple of minutes or hours but days is relatively rare. These are what I'm looking at:
Hitachi E71 13HP 7100 Watt Generator with Honda Motor
Generac Guardian Series 5875 20,000 Watt Air-Cooled Liquid Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator With Transfer Switch
Generac QuietSource Series QT02224 22,000 Watt Liquid Cooled Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator Without Transfer Switch

Does anyone know anything about this stuff? Is it worth spending big bucks for something that will only be used for a couple of hours a year except in rare circumstances? How much power do I really need and is portability important? Is the expensive water cooled Generac worth twice the price of the air cooled model?

I can afford all of the options but I don't piss away money and I love a bargain.

Thanks,

Joe M.

 

[olds]

Water cooled is generally quieter.
Be sure to price the switch and wiring (electrician) costs too.

 

[DrPizza]

The difference between the generac & the portable is $5k. How many days a year do you average having the power out? A few hours a year, and perhaps 3 or 4 days in a row once a decade? Well, ask yourself, is it worth $500 a day for each full day you're without power?

Water pump is important. Fridge is important. Why not get the portable generator, then spend the extra money to go to a nice hotel for a couple of days - you'll probably come out ahead. Of course, then there's the gloat factor where yours is the only house on the block with the lights on.

 

[JoeyM]

Thanks fellas. I just I just needed some common sense.

Joe M.

 

[zzuupp]

Dr. P is right. (As usual)

Fridge and water are your big concerns. Although "gas pump" is confusing me.

 

[Pulsar]

Go out and buy a $700 10k watt generator that outputs 220. Now make an extension cord that plugs into the 220 where your stove, drier, or furnace plug in, or run a dedicated line for it. Never run it in a closed garage, and remember to put fuel stabilizer in every tank of gas you fill it with. Mine runs for 10-12 hours on 3.5 gallons and handles my AC, my fridge, and my deep freeze with no problem. We even ran the washer and drier (after turning off the AC just in case).

Just please please please remember you absolutely MUST kill the breaker to the outside power before you turn it on. If you don't, some poor electrician working on a telephone pole to restore your power might get the last surprise of his life when he finds that you're backfeeding the line and making it live.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Dr. P is right. (As usual)

Fridge and water are your big concerns. Although "gas pump" is confusing me.

Usually a 300 gallon or bigger bulk fuel tank sitting in a concrete enclosure with an electric fuel pump.

 

[zzuupp]

Usually a 300 gallon or bigger bulk fuel tank sitting in a concrete enclosure with an electric fuel pump.

Thanks.

The very few folks I've know with those have had a backup "hand crank".

It isn't fun, but they could fill their cars without electricity.

 

[WHAMPOM]

After losing power for four days because of the storm last week (starting on the day I loaded the fridge and freezer from shopping at Costco), I have decided I need a generator. My friends with portable home generators all-and I mean 100%-say get the expensive Generac that goes on automatically rather than the portable model. I really only need the water pump, the furnace, and the refrigerator to be on but internet, telephone, garage door opener, stereo, lights, and gasoline pump would be great. I think I can live without AC for a few days. I have a propane tank (for pool heating, BBQ, and stove), so gas line for the generator won't be a problem. We lose power occasionally for a couple of minutes or hours but days is relatively rare. These are what I'm looking at:
Hitachi E71 13HP 7100 Watt Generator with Honda Motor
Generac Guardian Series 5875 20,000 Watt Air-Cooled Liquid Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator With Transfer Switch
Generac QuietSource Series QT02224 22,000 Watt Liquid Cooled Propane/Natural Gas Powered Standby Generator Without Transfer Switch

Does anyone know anything about this stuff? Is it worth spending big bucks for something that will only be used for a couple of hours a year except in rare circumstances? How much power do I really need and is portability important? Is the expensive water cooled Generac worth twice the price of the air cooled model?

I can afford all of the options but I don't piss away money and I love a bargain.

Thanks,

Joe M.

I would go with a gas portable big enough to power your essentials, plus run power tools and lighting off the grid. Of course if you're expecting zombi attacks and need to electrify fences go with the big LP model. Hmmm? Better get an auto-on make, don't want your brains eaten in your sleep!

 

[boomerang]

I've got a 7000 watt portable. With a transfer switch I run the Furnace, Fridge, Garage Door, the Well Pump and a number of lighting circuits. I didn't intentionally set out to have the internet and desktop computers powered but come to find out they were on the same circuit as some of the lights I wanted so it worked out well.

I totally disagree with advice to run an extension cord of any kind and I'll tell you why. If you were to have a house fire the insurance adjuster will be looking for a reason to deny your claim. Don't take the chance. You say you have the bucks so do it right.

A transfer switch is the correct way to do it, it's also a very convenient way to do it. I have a weatherproof receptacle on the outside of the house. I run a very large cord made up by the electrician from the generator to the that receptacle. I start the generator, go to the basement (where my breaker panel is located) and flip the breakers on the transfer switch from 'Line' to 'Gen'. All the circuits I want powered are then powered. In addition, I can turn on a light that is not powered and when it comes on I know that power has been restored. That circuit is still being powered by the electric company.

The transfer switch needs to be sized to the capacity of the generator. I had a 4500 watt generator prior and had a 6 circuit transfer switch. With the 7000 watt I have a 10 circuit transfer switch. If I'd run an extension cord to the house in place of a transfer switch, the entire electrical panel would be powered and the generator would not be able to handle the load. It can be easy to forget that you can't turn on 'everything'.

Having said all that, I'd much prefer a standby generator run off natural gas. But I'm greedy and I want to be able to run everything including the AC. That gets me into a water cooled model and they cost more than I can justify. The nice thing about a standby too, is that there is no gasoline to be hauling around. It just sits there and does its thing with no intervention.

 

[JoeyM]

Usually a 300 gallon or bigger bulk fuel tank sitting in a concrete enclosure with an electric fuel pump.

This is correct and there is no hand pump.

 

[JoeyM]

I've got a 7000 watt portable. With a transfer switch I run the Furnace, Fridge, Garage Door, the Well Pump and a number of lighting circuits. I didn't intentionally set out to have the internet and desktop computers powered but come to find out they were on the same circuit as some of the lights I wanted so it worked out well.

I totally disagree with advice to run an extension cord of any kind and I'll tell you why. If you were to have a house fire the insurance adjuster will be looking for a reason to deny your claim. Don't take the chance. You say you have the bucks so do it right.

A transfer switch is the correct way to do it, it's also a very convenient way to do it. I have a weatherproof receptacle on the outside of the house. I run a very large cord made up by the electrician from the generator to the that receptacle. I start the generator, go to the basement (where my breaker panel is located) and flip the breakers on the transfer switch from 'Line' to 'Gen'. All the circuits I want powered are then powered. In addition, I can turn on a light that is not powered and when it comes on I know that power has been restored. That circuit is still being powered by the electric company.

The transfer switch needs to be sized to the capacity of the generator. I had a 4500 watt generator prior and had a 6 circuit transfer switch. With the 7000 watt I have a 10 circuit transfer switch. If I'd run an extension cord to the house in place of a transfer switch, the entire electrical panel would be powered and the generator would not be able to handle the load. It can be easy to forget that you can't turn on 'everything'.

Having said all that, I'd much prefer a standby generator run off natural gas. But I'm greedy and I want to be able to run everything including the AC. That gets me into a water cooled model and they cost more than I can justify. The nice thing about a standby too, is that there is no gasoline to be hauling around. It just sits there and does its thing with no intervention.

I will definitely go with a transfer switch installed by an electrician.
I would love the luxury of the big automatic generator run off the propane tank but it really is hard to justify. Other than noise level, why else would you choose the water cooled model for an extra $4k?

Joe

 

[NetWareHead]

IMHO, powering the entire house is just unnecessary and expensive. The critical things like fridge, water well etc.. are needed but sizing the generator and feeding it fuel so all the lights can turn on and the kids can play vid games is a waste of $$$.

Not so much in an electrical outage situation, my next point applies more to a disaster situation (picture hurricane katrina level). A generator, under these circumstances, is a noisy (and bright, if powering your interior lights) invitation saying "This house has supplies - come and get them". I've heard of several incidents where families had made preparations for disaster, with supplies, shelter, etc. in good order and ready to go. Several had generators ready and waiting. However, their neighbors who had not prepared all came running after the disaster, wanting food, water and shelter from them. When the prepared families refused, on the grounds that they had very little, and that only enough for themselves, there were many incidents of aggression, attempted assault, and theft of their supplies etc... Some had to use weapons to deter attack.

Basically, if you look like you know what you are doing, you may be targeted and preyed upon by others less prepared. I'd rather get a smaller, less noisy generator to power the essentials while continuing to use kerosene lanterns, candles and flashlights and blend in with everyone else.

 

[Pulsar]

I love how people get all worried about wiring.

Note I did not say extension cord. Go out and BUY the 10 or 12 gage wire and the plug ends at your local hardware store. The outlet is protected by the breaker in the panel, and you are running the exact same wiring that handles the 220 in the wall.

Legal and up to code.

 

[herm0016]

Go out and buy a $700 10k watt generator that outputs 220. Now make an extension cord that plugs into the 220 where your stove, drier, or furnace plug in, or run a dedicated line for it. Never run it in a closed garage, and remember to put fuel stabilizer in every tank of gas you fill it with. Mine runs for 10-12 hours on 3.5 gallons and handles my AC, my fridge, and my deep freeze with no problem. We even ran the washer and drier (after turning off the AC just in case).

Just please please please remember you absolutely MUST kill the breaker to the outside power before you turn it on. If you don't, some poor electrician working on a telephone pole to restore your power might get the last surprise of his life when he finds that you're backfeeding the line and making it live.

don't be stupid. DO NOT DO THIS! get a transfer switch installed.

 

[Joe C]

Just please please please remember you absolutely MUST kill the breaker to the outside power before you turn it on. If you don't, some poor electrician working on a telephone pole to restore your power might get the last surprise of his life when he finds that you're backfeeding the line and making it live.

Legal and up to code.

You are telling him to backfeed the panel, wich is extremely dangerous for just the reason you cited and it is not legal and up to code unless a lockout kit is installed on the main panel. Also if he forgot to turn the main OFF and power was restored while the generator was running a fire will most likely occur.

 

[herm0016]

I love how people get all worried about wiring.

Note I did not say extension cord. Go out and BUY the 10 or 12 gage wire and the plug ends at your local hardware store. The outlet is protected by the breaker in the panel, and you are running the exact same wiring that handles the 220 in the wall.

Legal and up to code.

haha... NO!

Code is a proper transfer switch, not only to protect you but also the other people working on the line and in the nearby houses.

People get all worried because there are people like you around that do not do things properly and put the rest of us in danger.

 

[skyking]

OP, I hope the doc's common sense has set in properly. No need to go crazy over the possibility of losing ~$1000 of food once when you are not home and spend 10K or more to go automatic. If you go on vacation show a good friend how to run the generator a couple times a day to charge the freezer; that is all it takes if you don't open the door.

On the subject of extension cords: Unless you plan on leaving things unattended, Running things like a fridge and freezer and some lights and a TV off a couple of cords is totally safe. I would not leave my portable genset running unattended so that is not an issue. If you absolutely have to run the central AC then you need a 10K watt unit and the transfer switch, otherwise no. Think of it like camping, charge up your portable flashlights and get to bed when it gets dark

What I have done at my well house uses plugs and is totally safe.
It has two pumps, one in the ground and a pressure pump after the softener and storage tank. I have two plug ins on the wall at each location. One is line, the other generator.
Each pump has a pigtail and male plug. I have a connection on the outside of the wellhouse and a pigtail for the generator.
Power goes out, I bring over the generator and move the appropriate plugs. Impossible to backfeed.

 

[Joe C]

The correct way to backfeed a panel is here:http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#How does the Interlock kit work?

 

[boomerang]

I will definitely go with a transfer switch installed by an electrician.
I would love the luxury of the big automatic generator run off the propane tank but it really is hard to justify. Other than noise level, why else would you choose the water cooled model for an extra $4k?

Joe

In order to power the whole house, the wattage came out at a breaking point between the highest output air-cooled model and the lowest output water-cooled. I guess I was just thinking of longevity in addition to the noise. More maintenance involved with the water-cooled too so that's a negative (besides the cost).

I'm sticking with what I have, so it's all just theory at this point.

 

[Texashiker]

I can afford all of the options but I don't piss away money and I love a bargain.

Thanks,

Joe M.

If you want a quality product, then generac is the way to go.

Those portable generators use motors like a lawnmower motor / briggs and stratton, their not really designed to run 24 hours a day. After a hurricane, I run my coleman generator maybe 12 hours a day, and mostly at night for some fans. The motor on my generator is a tecumseh.

Generac usually uses small car motors like a 4 cylinder or even a V-6 car motor.

Trying to power the whole house is a waste of fuel.

The Generac unit here where I work has a something like a chevy V-6 for the motor. During hurricane Rita, the generator ran for close to 2 weeks at 24 hours a day. It runs off natural gas so no fuel was needed. But like all car motors, it needs regular maintance - anti-freeze, and change the oil.

In essence, your comparing a generator that uses a lawnmower engine, to a generator that uses a car engine. Which one do you think is going to give you the better service and long term performance.

 

[boomerang]

If you want a quality product, then generac is the way to go.

Those portable generators use motors like a lawnmower motor / briggs and stratton, their not really designed to run 24 hours a day. After a hurricane, I run my coleman generator maybe 12 hours a day, and mostly at night for some fans. The motor on my generator is a tecumseh.

Generac usually uses small car motors like a 4 cylinder or even a V-6 car motor.

Trying to power the whole house is a waste of fuel.

The Generac unit here where I work has a something like a chevy V-6 for the motor. During hurricane Rita, the generator ran for close to 2 weeks at 24 hours a day. It runs off natural gas so no fuel was needed. But like all car motors, it needs regular maintance - anti-freeze, and change the oil.

In essence, your comparing a generator that uses a lawnmower engine, to a generator that uses a car engine. Which one do you think is going to give you the better service and long term performance.

I've often wondered what the gas bill would run for extended operation of a standby generator. If you've ever seen one piped, it's a big line. My mother has one and they teed right off the line coming out of the meter with the same sized pipe.