Anyone Know Home Security Systems? Looking to upgrade

[s0me0nesmind1]

House we are currently in came pre-wired for some cameras around the house. The problem is that the system is a bit crappy/old - and the cameras themselves are yesterday technology with semi-grainy image quality. So I'm looking to upgrade to some nice 4k quality ones.

I honestly refuse to go with wifi dependent wireless versions and prefer to cover my tracks since the home is already wired and it is far more secure.



HOWEVER - before I go doing any DIY shit - there are a few things I have to account for....

The current wiring in the home is legacy RCA-based wires. It looks like I would have to get it rewired for CAT5.



Has anyone ever gone with a security related company to get more cameras/wiring done? Or should I just call an electrician to wire these things? Any idea of the cost to wire these cameras (some outside, some inside) knowing that they already are wired (just need to run CAT5 instead and replace the current RCA ones)? Might also request wiring for another 2 or so as well if I deem it needed.

This set from Costco has really caught my eye with some overall good reviews. Anyone else have recommendations here?

 

[NutBucket]

What kind of wiring do you have? Assuming BNC + power lead?

Save yourself A LOT of time and just get something like this: Lorex

It basically uses the BNC cable as high-speed serial so you won't have signal degradation. Unless you wanted to run all that new wiring anyway. I recently installed a system like this so I wouldn't have to run new cable. Picture quality is equivalent to a 1080P POE system.

 

[boomerang]

As NutBucket said, stay with the cabling you've got if you can and save yourself some money. The siamesed coax cabling it sounds like you have now is more than capable of passing enough data for virtually any camera you can buy.

Put the money you save by not replacing the cabling into the cameras. Don't shortchange yourself on the picture quality because you will regret it later. Get the highest megapixel camera you can afford. (Yes, I know you've already decided on 4K.) Pay attention also to the size of the lens if the camera can be had with different lenses. The difference will be the degrees of the field of view. No sense buying a camera that will be placed to give you the view down a hallway when it is meant to give you a wide field of view like you might need for an outdoor camera. Not all camera are available with different lenses but some have variable lenses. It can get a bit overwhelming. By way of example, a 2.8mm lens will give you a wide field of view and a 6mm lens will be vary narrow.

Somewhere on the premises is a power supply that steps AC down to most likely 12V DC. Verify that and make sure that the cameras you buy can work with that voltage. You most likely will be OK.

Your other decision is the DVR. They come in 4, 8 and 16 channels. Take into consideration if there will ever be an expansion of the system. You will need a large HD for 4K video but that of course is dependent on how you set it up to record (movement based or 24 hours as examples) and how long you wish to retain the recordings before they are overwritten.

Do you want to have clear recordings at night? Make sure the cameras have IR capability. I have a camera over our front door. It is inset into an alcove of sorts. I have the IR turned off because it lights up the side walls and makes the view of what is important poor. The camera I have has what Hikvision calls Dark Fighter technology and the picture quality at night is very good even with the IR turned off.

Here is a site to poke around at with a variety of hardware. I have purchased a few minor items from them but nothing major so I have no recommendations to make on any of their products.

Security Cameras and Video Surveillance Systems from CCTV Camera Pros

www.cctvcamerapros.com

There are a ton of decisions to be made.

 

[NutBucket]

Oh, cloud subsctiption from a company I've never heard of? Yeah, not sure I would go there. Lorex may be the same rebranded Chinesium crap but at least they most likely won't be going out of business anytime soon.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Oh, cloud subsctiption from a company I've never heard of? Yeah, not sure I would go there. Lorex may be the same rebranded Chinesium crap but at least they most likely won't be going out of business anytime soon.

Yeah I don't care for (or want) the cloud shit. Thus the fact that it had a 4TB HD made me think that the cloud shit was "optional".

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So just for reference, currently my system is a lorex... So it sounds like most here are recommending I stick with them.

All of these hookups and such are in one of our upstairs closets along with alarm communication stuff as well.

I'll be honest I'm not 100% sure what half the shit is. Maybe some of you guys know better? Also let me know if these cables will work fine still.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Also... honestly... I'm seeing a lot of negative reviews of Lorex on the system from Costco. Complaints about the software - as well as camera quality.

You guys have any recommendations there if I'm going to stick with them?

 

[NutBucket]

Can you link the unit costco has?

I recently installed this system: https://www.lorextechnology.com/bla...em-with-4-cameras-8-channel-dvr/LX1081-44-1-p

And as cheap as it is the PQ is quite good. Not sure if every manufacturer offers this but Lorex has automatic DDNS system...so you don't need to do any router setup. It proved very useful for me since one of my systems uses a cellular connection so there is another NAT on the provider side I couldn't otherwise route through (unless I was willing to pony up huge dollars for a static IP)

EDIT: The other stuff in that closet appears to be part of an alarm (hence the backup battery)

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Can you link the unit costco has?

I recently installed this system: https://www.lorextechnology.com/bla...em-with-4-cameras-8-channel-dvr/LX1081-44-1-p

And as cheap as it is the PQ is quite good. Not sure if every manufacturer offers this but Lorex has automatic DDNS system...so you don't need to do any router setup. It proved very useful for me since one of my systems uses a cellular connection so there is another NAT on the provider side I couldn't otherwise route through (unless I was willing to pony up huge dollars for a static IP)

EDIT: The other stuff in that closet appears to be part of an alarm (hence the backup battery)

Here is what comes up when I search for Lorex on Costco... For reference, I'm probably going to stick to an 8-channel... If I need more than 8 cameras than my house must be a prison lol.

None of the systems were over ~3.8 stars average, and people complaining kept saying the image quality wasn't great for 4k cameras. Also complaints of people saying the person/car detection would have lots of false-flags for weather and such. Perhaps they are all just technological morons though and don't know how to configure correctly?

 

[NutBucket]

Further looking shows the system I linked isn't the system I actually bought. Mine has the same cameras but the DVR isn't as advanced. It has simple motion detection only which is fine for my purposes. But I would say the picture quality should be the same as it is more camera dependent than DVR dependent.

I've never used any of those advanced features or whatever so I can't comment on those. But yes, the motion detection will pick up clouds moving overhead as they move past the sun, etc.

Looking at the Costco systems, 5MP isn't 4k...so that's misleading marketing by Lorex there. I think it should read the recorder is capable of 4k but the included cameras are 2k. The true 4K systems have 8MP cameras.

I'd probably consider this: https://www.lorextechnology.com/hd-...mp-hd-camera-home-security-system/4KMPX88-1-p

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Further looking shows the system I linked isn't the system I actually bought. Mine has the same cameras but the DVR isn't as advanced. It has simple motion detection only which is fine for my purposes. But I would say the picture quality should be the same as it is more camera dependent than DVR dependent.

I've never used any of those advanced features or whatever so I can't comment on those. But yes, the motion detection will pick up clouds moving overhead as they move past the sun, etc.

Looking at the Costco systems, 5MP isn't 4k...so that's misleading marketing by Lorex there. I think it should read the recorder is capable of 4k but the included cameras are 2k. The true 4K systems have 8MP cameras.

I'd probably consider this: https://www.lorextechnology.com/hd-...mp-hd-camera-home-security-system/4KMPX88-1-p

Judging by the prices that are directly from Lorex... these Costco prices are actually crap....

 

[NutBucket]

Oh, not to be a Lorex salesman but they do seem to have pretty reasonable tech support which is nice. E-mails usually get response within a day. It may be Chinesium hardware but at least the rest of the company is good.

 

[boomerang]

I think you're screwed from a cabling perspective. What I'm seeing are as you said, RCA cables. They are attached to the DVR using BNC jumpers. I question whether those cables are capable of moving the amount of data required for higher end cameras. Although I suspect they won't, I truly don't know.

An issue with all systems priced for the typical homeowner is that there is compression taking place in order to keep the data rates lower. It's at the heart of what makes people unhappy with 4K camera recordings. If you want to be able to very clearly identify an individual and see every little detail, you've got to open your wallet very wide. You will need to go with IP cameras but more importantly you will need to spend big dollars on the NVR. The NVR is the real key to picture quality.

 

[NutBucket]

Yes and no boomer. New systems utilize old coax cabling but transmit digital data on them, not analog. My photo above is from such a system. Obviously there is compression going on but it's a far cry from the old analog systems.

Since all the data is now digitized in the camera the NVR "only" needs to be able to keep up with the frame rates and such. Not saying it isn't an issue but it's not like the old days where it had to digitize everything.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think you're screwed from a cabling perspective. What I'm seeing are as you said, RCA cables. They are attached to the DVR using BNC jumpers. I question whether those cables are capable of moving the amount of data required for higher end cameras. Although I suspect they won't, I truly don't know.

An issue with all systems priced for the typical homeowner is that there is compression taking place in order to keep the data rates lower. It's at the heart of what makes people unhappy with 4K camera recordings. If you want to be able to very clearly identify an individual and see every little detail, you've got to open your wallet very wide. You will need to go with IP cameras but more importantly you will need to spend big dollars on the NVR. The NVR is the real key to picture quality.

Yes and no boomer. New systems utilize old coax cabling but transmit digital data on them, not analog. My photo above is from such a system. Obviously there is compression going on but it's a far cry from the old analog systems.

Since all the data is now digitized in the camera the NVR "only" needs to be able to keep up with the frame rates and such. Not saying it isn't an issue but it's not like the old days where it had to digitize everything.

Well... I just bought the equivalent system NutBucket linked from Lorox lol - so I hope I have the equivalent cabling

Overall not understanding the overall point though... Is DVR simply insufficient and I should instead go for NVR with CAT5?

If so that's gonna suck and I'll have to get the electrician out here... Items I bought (ignore the dumb extended warranty - that comes with the items)

 

[NutBucket]

So dumb question but have you verified how the PTZ cameras need to be connected? I'm not sure if additional wiring is required in addition to video and power.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So dumb question but have you verified how the PTZ cameras need to be connected? I'm not sure if additional wiring is required in addition to video and power.

I haven't no. I'm also retarded on this subject in general. Do you recommend taking off a camera and taking a look at the cabling behind it?

And (just for the record) I am willing to open up my wallet more if that is what is needed for an adequate system. I just don't want to open it so wide that it's a cash cow where companies come and say "Don't mind if I do!"

 

[NutBucket]

I don't know. I would check the manual for the cameras you bought and see what it says. What you got should be good (noting of course the PTZ cameras are 1080p and not 4k). You could always contact Lorex and see what they have to say as far as what you need, etc.

EDIT: https://www.lorextechnology.com/dow...2/LZV2622_SERIES_MANUAL_TRILINGUAL_R4-web.pdf

Looks like the PTZ control is carried on the same cable as the video signal so you're good to go. I just wasn't sure!

 

[boomerang]

Yes and no boomer. New systems utilize old coax cabling but transmit digital data on them, not analog. My photo above is from such a system. Obviously there is compression going on but it's a far cry from the old analog systems.

Since all the data is now digitized in the camera the NVR "only" needs to be able to keep up with the frame rates and such. Not saying it isn't an issue but it's not like the old days where it had to digitize everything.

Those aren't coax cables. They're too small in diameter. I'm very familiar with the setup you're referring to. I tweaked, tuned and monitored 24 cameras that fed in from 3 widely separated locations in the community where I live. All three DVR's and the cameras are set up to use MPX technology which is a fancy term for it utilizing Coax. Coax can carry a ton of data and it's shielded. What he has is not coax it's some wires in a jacket.

The single Hikvision I have here at home gives me the option to use H264, H264+, H265 or H265+. Different compression schemes done at the camera level. The other end, the DVR can accept the data stream no problem but the issue then becomes does the DVR have the horsepower to fill in the missing data to give x picture quality when viewed. Obviously viewing more cameras puts more of a load on the DVR.

Overall not understanding the overall point though... Is DVR simply insufficient and I should instead go for NVR with CAT5?

You bought a system and it should perform as well as they say it should. You'll find out. If you want to record at the highest resolution, and it will be dependent upon how you set up your recording (again, based on motion or 24/7 as examples), you are going to find that the hard drive that shipped with it may fill up very quickly. It will overwrite but you may only have one day of recordings. But I recall it saying that it will accept up to an 8TB HD. So you can swap it.

As far as the cables, try it out. Crank the resolution up to the max and see what happens.

 

[NutBucket]

Agreed that cable isn't RG-59....I guess that will definitely be a try and see.

 

[boomerang]

You're going to be happy with your picture quality. Here's a 4MP camera snapshot at 1920x1080P using H265+ compression. Look at how clear all the joints are between the pavers. Your picture quality should be better. But you have to remember that cameras (the 4 that you are getting) are fixed focus. Good, but not for every distance within it's viewing angle. That's the nature of the beast.

See how the quality degrades the farther away from the camera? What am I interested in? The dude coming up the driveway to the front door. Or, in my case when the lawn service hits my mailbox with their mower like happened several weeks ago which is why I have the camera. I paid for the repair the first time because I had no proof. They paid the second time because I had it on video.

I've cranked the resolution up as high as it will go to check it out and the results are not better enough to warrant the larger file size. I record to my Synology so I'm not worried about space (in fact I have it set to automatically delete all files over 3 days old) but why push more data through the network with very minimal return?



The picture looks great on my computer hope it does for you. Click on the picture for the best viewing.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You're going to be happy with your picture quality. Here's a 4MP camera snapshot at 1920x1080P using H265+ compression. Look at how clear all the joints are between the pavers. Your picture quality should be better. But you have to remember that cameras (the 4 that you are getting) are fixed focus. Good, but not for every distance within it's viewing angle. That's the nature of the beast.

See how the quality degrades the farther away from the camera? What am I interested in? The dude coming up the driveway to the front door. Or, in my case when the lawn service hits my mailbox with their mower like happened several weeks ago which is why I have the camera. I paid for the repair the first time because I had no proof. They paid the second time because I had it on video.

I've cranked the resolution up as high as it will go to check it out and the results are not better enough to warrant the larger file size. I record to my Synology so I'm not worried about space (in fact I have it set to automatically delete all files over 3 days old) but why push more data through the network with very minimal return?

View attachment 19924

The picture looks great on my computer hope it does for you. Click on the picture for the best viewing.

Looks great for sure! Damn great.

On that note, it looks so good I have to ask... do you live in Florida?

 

[boomerang]

Looks great for sure! Damn great.

On that note, it looks so good I have to ask... do you live in Florida?

Yes I do.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Also - I'm sure anything is better than what we currently have heh. For reference, this is our front door. Right now.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yes I do.

I can tell by the damn roofing that I only ever see there heh.


Here is our driveway currently by the way to go along with the above front-door pic