Anyone Know Home Security Systems? Looking to upgrade

[boomerang]

That's about the same as the picture quality of the cameras the community put in place. 2MP cameras. The powers that be are unhappy with the picture quality but it all comes down to throwing good money after bad now. They're not that unhappy.

Mostly they're unhappy with the two license plate cameras they bought that are the absolute cheapest ones out there. The only way they'll get a readable plate is if the car is stopped and that nearly never happens because they couldn't place the cameras where they needed to be for that.

While vehicles are waiting for the gate arms to raise for entry the LP cameras do not have a view of the back of the vehicle. They only have a view when the car is in motion after the arms raise. Not good. The picture is better at night but some plates in this climate lose their reflective properties rather quickly and those just show up as a blob. Niiice.

Damn roofing is right. That shit is very expensive to replace. The eye of Irma missed us by about two miles as the crow flies and fortunately we had no roof damage. But others had to replace their entire roof because the tiles were no longer available to patch with. 1800 sf house and 40K to replace the roof. Ouch.

 

[Micrornd]

1800 sf house and 40K to replace the roof

Clay tile or concrete tile?
Sounds like Tampa/St. Pete area

 

[boomerang]

Clay tile or concrete tile?
Sounds like Tampa/St. Pete area

The tiles on our roof are concrete.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Well fock. Not sure what to do about this now.

Since I ordered the new cameras I decided to take down one of the current cameras just to see wiring and such to prepare for what I need to do....


I can't even get to the wiring took off the camera mount and I'm just left with this wire. Tried giving it a few light tugs but can't get it out. Not sure what to do other than call a pro or something?

 

[boomerang]

Get yourself a keyhole saw and carefully make the hole bigger. Or drill a hole adjacent to it and elongate into the existing hole using the drywall saw. It doesn't have to be pretty because it will be covered up with the base of the camera.

Yup, it's going to be messy but nothing a vacuum can't take care of. Drywall cuts very easy and if it were me, I'd hold a small wastebasket underneath while I sawed to catch most of the debris.

Edit: Better yet might be a shop vac.

 

[NutBucket]

Yep. Hopefully there is enough slack to get to the connector!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Upgraded my system this week to 4k cameras and a new DVR. Overall things are much better...BUT...

I'm having some issues at night.

Basically, I have 8 cameras. They all work fucking fine and dandy during the day. Then night hits, and roughly 6 of the 8 outside go either offline - or just show a black image because the IR isn't activiating.

I was advised to try shining a flashlight at them for 5-10 seconds. This is because it will make them activate (from the light), then once I stop the flashlight, it should then re-activate the IR for night...

But the problem is that the IR doesn't seem to be constant. It just keeps turning on and off many times. So the flashlight trick works to an extent, it tries to re-activate, but it ultimately just turns on and off

Does anyone have any ideas of what could be wrong here? I'm clueless at this point. I called Lorex today to start round 1 of moron tech support - which is where they mentioned the flashlight trick. So tomorrow I'm up for Round 2 - but I figured I would ask here just incase.

 

[NutBucket]

Huh. That's strange. I wonder if the power draw is too high when the IR LEDS turn on. Try disconnecting a couple cameras and report back.

Is there one power supply for all the cameras?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Huh. That's strange. I wonder if the power draw is too high when the IR LEDS turn on. Try disconnecting a couple cameras and report back.

Is there one power supply for all the cameras?

All of them connect to 12v outlets. I've tried using a spider cable splitter that connects 4 to 1 outlet, and I've tried connecting them individually to outlets/surge protector in the room.

I agree it SOUNDS power related.

 

[NutBucket]

So there is one supply for each camera? Or are there 12V ports on the recorder?

 

[Micrornd]

But the problem is that the IR doesn't seem to be constant. It just keeps turning on and off many times.

Is it possible that the IR is being triggered off by an ambient light source, such as being close to a window where inside lights are on ?
Maybe light (or moonlight) reflecting off an exterior wall.
Maybe try turning off all the lights in the house and see if it makes any difference to any of the cameras.
I know when we would install D to D sensors we always faced them east and had to make sure there were no stray light sources or reflective surfaces that could trigger them off once they turned on in the evening.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think you're screwed from a cabling perspective. What I'm seeing are as you said, RCA cables. They are attached to the DVR using BNC jumpers. I question whether those cables are capable of moving the amount of data required for higher end cameras. Although I suspect they won't, I truly don't know.

An issue with all systems priced for the typical homeowner is that there is compression taking place in order to keep the data rates lower. It's at the heart of what makes people unhappy with 4K camera recordings. If you want to be able to very clearly identify an individual and see every little detail, you've got to open your wallet very wide. You will need to go with IP cameras but more importantly you will need to spend big dollars on the NVR. The NVR is the real key to picture quality.

I'm slightly confused, what exactly is indicating to you that these are RCA cables? Does it look like they have a converter on them or something? I was under the impression they are all BNC.

If indeed they are RCA then I guess I could understand why I'm having issues with the night vision.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So there is one supply for each camera? Or are there 12V ports on the recorder?

I can do either one supply per camera (see pic)

Or 4 cameras to 1 via the spider cable (see pic)

Sorry - hope that explains it, otherwise I might just not be understanding...

 

[boomerang]

I'm slightly confused, what exactly is indicating to you that these are RCA cables? Does it look like they have a converter on them or something? I was under the impression they are all BNC.

If indeed they are RCA then I guess I could understand why I'm having issues with the night vision.

In the picture showing the yellow connections, those look like jumpers that go from RCA to BNC connections. I can't blow the picture up enough to say for sure and I can't download it to my computer to blow it up. You mentioned RCA early on which got me going down that road.

Are those jumpers still in play or were you able to connect the cabling directly to the DVR without using them? If so, provide a close up picture of those connections at the DVR.

You could order up one of the cables at the link below and hook up a camera temporarily and see if you get the results you're looking for. If you want, order one in a length you can actually use or order the shortest to save some money. They have them for cameras that do audio too so order accordingly.

If you have one camera that you can run new wiring to easily, order the length you need and instead of a temporary install do a permanent install.

Security Camera Cables, CCTV BNC Camera Cable, Video & Power

CCTV Camera Pros sells various lengths of pre-made security camera cables with BNC and power connectors attached. Our BNC cables are HD rated for analog CCTV, AHD, HD-TVI, HD-CVI, and HD-SDI cameras.

www.cctvcamerapros.com

Or, you could buy one of the jumpers below which would be cheaper yet but I'm guessing you absolutely would have to remove the camera temporarily as the jumper is rather short.

CCTV Video Cables | BNC to BNC Jumper

BNC jumper cables for CCTV video and surveillance systems. Available in 2, 3, 6, 12, 50, and 100 foot lengths. This is RG-59U cable with BNC male ends pre-attached.

www.cctvcamerapros.com

But I too, think it's a power problem or, a camera problem. It's seems odd that so many are giving you the same issue and odd that it could be power for all. If you want to spend a few bucks to swap out cabling as I outlined above you can do so but I don't think that is a factor.

Have you tried swapping a transformer for a camera that is not giving you a problem with a transformer for a camera that is? That should tell you something.

What is the model number of one of the cameras that is giving you a problem? I'll see if I can find the manual for it and read up.

 

[NutBucket]

I'm a tad confused by your power supply photo. I see 4 wall warts. Yet you said one power supply per camera? I thought you had 8? Sorry, just trying to get everything sorted.

What if you unhook all but one of the problem cameras? Does it still give you problems?

 

[boomerang]

How much ambient light is there at night where the cameras are mounted? Streetlights? People in the neighborhood leaving outside lights on overnight?

Bring a camera inside, hook it up and darken the room. Does the IR stay on? What's the picture quality like? It has color nightvision but in low light it will go to black and white.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

How much ambient light is there at night where the cameras are mounted? Streetlights? People in the neighborhood leaving outside lights on overnight?

Bring a camera inside, hook it up and darken the room. Does the IR stay on? What's the picture quality like? It has color nightvision but in low light it will go to black and white.

I'm a tad confused by your power supply photo. I see 4 wall warts. Yet you said one power supply per camera? I thought you had 8? Sorry, just trying to get everything sorted.

What if you unhook all but one of the problem cameras? Does it still give you problems?

Will try to explain this as best I can:

First - I would say there is sufficient ambient lighting. Street lights - other neighbors having lights, etc... It's a standard suburb neighborhood where the nextdoor neighbor is fairly close

So each camera is wired. sends a single wire to where our DVR is. At the end of the cable, it splits into 2. One for power. One for connecting to the DVR.

I have an OPTION of giving a 12v power adapter to EACH camera..... OR I have a "spider" splitter that will split ONE 12v power adapter to 4 cameras. I have tried powering cameras with AND without the splitter. The same result occurs with the IR not working at night.






The one thing I will note is that the ONE new 4K camera that actually WORKS at night with IR is the ONE camera that was rewired. It's also the ONE cable that comes out of the wall that is "Siamese"... in that, I can see that it is 2 cables before it splits. All the other ones look single all the way through until the actual split occurs. See pic for what I'm talking about.

 

[boomerang]

The one thing I will note is that the ONE new 4K camera that actually WORKS at night with IR is the ONE camera that was rewired. It's also the ONE cable that comes out of the wall that is "Siamese"... in that, I can see that it is 2 cables before it splits.

You have found your answer.

You asked early on in this thread whether you should hire a security related company or an electrician if you need wires run. The security people will have the cable you need. That being the siamesed cable. An electrician would typically not be running low voltage wiring like that but could they get the cable? Sure they could. But you may end up paying for more than you need because they will have no use for what is left. In other words if the job requires 400' and they must buy a 500' spool... you get the idea. As far as labor, my guess would be that the security people would be lower. More than likely they will not have to be licensed, etc. So my guess is that the security people would be best all around. Stories abound of the mess electricians that are not used to running low voltage wiring make.

BTW, when I asked about the ambient light I was not looking at it from the perspective of it being adequate, I was looking at it from the perspective of it being too much. So much that the IR was turning off. But that is a moot point because the cabling is your issue.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You have found your answer.

You asked early on in this thread whether you should hire a security related company or an electrician if you need wires run. The security people will have the cable you need. That being the siamesed cable. An electrician would typically not be running low voltage wiring like that but could they get the cable? Sure they could. But you may end up paying for more than you need because they will have no use for what is left. In other words if the job requires 400' and they must buy a 500' spool... you get the idea. As far as labor, my guess would be that the security people would be lower. More than likely they will not have to be licensed, etc. So my guess is that the security people would be best all around. Stories abound of the mess electricians that are not used to running low voltage wiring make.

BTW, when I asked about the ambient light I was not looking at it from the perspective of it being adequate, I was looking at it from the perspective of it being too much. So much that the IR was turning off. But that is a moot point because the cabling is your issue.

Here is what I don't understand - why is this siamese cable any better? I thought it was as simple as RJ59? I've tried googling for difference between cables but I've kinda come up empty.

The point being - if THAT is the answer - and I were to buy more and replace the current cables... I want to make sure that I buy that exact cable type.

 

[boomerang]

Here is what I don't understand - why is this siamese cable any better? I thought it was as simple as RJ59? I've tried googling for difference between cables but I've kinda come up empty.

The point being - if THAT is the answer - and I were to buy more and replace the current cables... I want to make sure that I buy that exact cable type.

The problem is the power cables. Too wimpy, multiple splices up in the attic, corroded splice connections, chewed on by critters, who knows and the why is immaterial anyway. If you're going to run new wiring and you have to, do it right and use siamesed cable.

You're overthinking this. You don't need the "exact" same cable (Same manufacturer? Same lot number?) that the camera that is working has run to it you just need siamesed cable which is available from a variety of sources.

If I was doing the work myself I would buy pre-made cables that already have the ends on them. No need to put a slew of BNC connectors on (plus I don't have the crimping tool for those) along with ugly butt splices on the power cables. Run the cables, plug them in. Easy peasy.

 

[NutBucket]

Agreed. If you're lucky you can just connect the old one to the new one, add some tape and pull them through. That's if the previous installer was lazy.

Now, I would argue that if you are pulling new cable NOW would be the time to check if you can return what you bought and get a POE system instead.

 

[Torn Mind]

It takes a lot to secure a house. Locks should be Assa Abloy, Mul-T-Lock, Medeco, etc.
If you really don't want window break-ins, plywood sealing is the way to go...of course that's aesthetically ugly and turns the house into a dark prison.

Then there's security systems to monitor ingress and egress. Ring is supposedly cheaper but Nest is better.

The sensor matters just as much or more than the resolution. CCD is better than CMOS but more expensive.

Glass doors are no bueno. Hammer and it's cracked.

 

[Torn Mind]

IR is useless imo and a Floodlight that costs 200+ that can replicate DAYLIGHT brightness is better because there is no "blinding trick" that can be employed in such a situation....

Or if you like big and ugly but on effective on a budget, install some 300W equivalent CFLs or LEDs.