Anyone notice the lack of scandals under Obama?

[woolfe9999]

I largely disagree but will limit my remarks to one issue: Subordinating the govt's loan to that of individual investors very late in the deal when the company's dire financial condition was known in apparent conflict with federal statutes prohibiting such may well elevate this to scandal level when it's all said and done.

(I think that's the longest single sentence I've ever written.)

Fern

I don't see this as a scandal because the evidence of cronyism is weak at best. The restructure itself was legal. The DOE didn't need Justice Department approval for it because it did not involve compromising the amount owed. It may have been a bad idea, but bad ideas aren't scandalous. Over 140 companies received loans under the stimulus. This one went belly up. This is Monday morning quarterbacking.

 

[xj0hnx]

Completely OT, just saw this gem in Binarycow's sig ...

Jesus is the answer...to your lawn and roof problems.

Subtle, yet provocative.

so instead of the tiring calling him a muslim black now he's a korean? make up your god damn mind.

So Mexicans do roofing and yardwork, and koreans eat dog, anymore racist stereotype you want to let roll tonight?

 

[werepossum]

I don't see this as a scandal because the evidence of cronyism is weak at best. The restructure itself was legal. The DOE didn't need Justice Department approval for it because it did not involve compromising the amount owed. It may have been a bad idea, but bad ideas aren't scandalous. Over 140 companies received loans under the stimulus. This one went belly up. This is Monday morning quarterbacking.

The restructure deal MIGHT be legal but it reeks of cronyism. Restructuring a loan so that the taxpayers take the inevitable loss rather than one's contributors and friends isn't just a bad idea, it's the very worst of politics.

 

[fskimospy]

This thread is really showing the crazies. The last administration had the VP's chief of staff get convicted of felony obstruction of justice with the prosecutor saying the only reason he wasn't handing down more indictments was because of the rampant lying. You had politically motivated firings of federal prosecutors, etc, etc.

Clinton burned a whole bunch of US citizens alive at Waco, he was impeached over Monica, etc, etc, etc.

Reagan had Iran-Contra with multiple convictions of its own, etc.

There's just no way to compare the scandals of yore with what has happened under Obama. Who knows, maybe he's been up to some heinous shit we just haven't found out about yet, but what's been unearthed so far is pretty weak.

 

[monovillage]

This thread is really showing the crazies. The last administration had the VP's chief of staff get convicted of felony obstruction of justice with the prosecutor saying the only reason he wasn't handing down more indictments was because of the rampant lying. You had politically motivated firings of federal prosecutors, etc, etc.

Clinton burned a whole bunch of US citizens alive at Waco, he was impeached over Monica, etc, etc, etc.

Reagan had Iran-Contra with multiple convictions of its own, etc.

There's just no way to compare the scandals of yore with what has happened under Obama. Who knows, maybe he's been up to some heinous shit we just haven't found out about yet, but what's been unearthed so far is pretty weak.

Fast N Furious isn't what i'd call weak.

 

[Muse]

It's true though. Obama hasn't had any real scandals. The Solyndra controversy is about a bad investment, which is not a scandal. The Wikipedia article is pretty good.

GWB didn't actually have that many scandals either. The Valerie Plame was the worst one. Even though I think it wasn't that big of a deal, the Clinton sex scandal was bigger as was the Iran-Contra affair and of course watergate. Obama's been ridiculously clean compared to these guys.

The smoke and mirrors WMD? The only thing interesting they found buried in a bunker was Saddam Hussein. They totally tricked the American public with that bull shit.

As far as I'm concerned Bill Clinton's sex scandal was so much political opportunism by the GOP.

 

[davmat787]

The smoke and mirrors WMD? The only thing interesting they found buried in a bunker was Saddam Hussein. They totally tricked the American public with that bull shit.

As far as I'm concerned Bill Clinton's sex scandal was so much political opportunism by the GOP.

Remember, it wasn't the BJ that got Clinton into trouble, it was the perjury. Apparently Clinton thought it was worth lying about, perhaps he should have just fessed up, I think most would have understood or at least given him a "Boys in power will be boys in power" pass.

The WMD's were a black eye on the Bush admin, no doubt about that. However, IIRC it wasn't just the US that was fooled, Saddam wanted the world to think he had WMD's and not only was the CIA fooled, but so was many other countries intelligence services. But Bush did lead the charge.

 

[shortylickens]

Retracted.


I dont want the mods suggesting I dislike african-americans.

 

[Craig234]

If by scandals you mean banging interns and such: We need to wait. They usually pop up later.

To me, putting us into exponentially worse debt is also a scandal.

Too bad you can't appreciate the economic issues before Obama.

Your argument is like saying the slavery issue started with Lincoln.

 

[Infohawk]

The smoke and mirrors WMD? The only thing interesting they found buried in a bunker was Saddam Hussein. They totally tricked the American public with that bull shit.

As far as I'm concerned Bill Clinton's sex scandal was so much political opportunism by the GOP.

Look, I like Clinton more than I like GWB but it's really hard to prove they KNEW they were lying with regard to the WMDs. Most of the US media and the Democrats seemed to go along with it. There were active UN investigations. Reasonable people seemed to buy into at the time, and not just because of what the US government said but again because of the context at the time. I didn't think Iraq was a threat at the time and I thought (correctly) that the war was a huge mistake but at the end of the day it's not what I think of when I think of "scandal." Valerie Plame was more of a classic scandal.

 

[Muse]

Remember, it wasn't the BJ that got Clinton into trouble, it was the perjury.

Please, let's look at this plainly. A married man, a lawyer, is asked under oath if he had sexual relations with an aide. You expect him to tell the truth if he did, and thus thrust a monkey wrench into his marriage? Is it a detriment to national security if he lies? Is it skin off anyone's ass if he lies? The obvious answer to anyone sane is "no!" However, the Republicans act as if it's a horrible crime against the nation and he should be, nay, shall be, nay WAS impeached! It is the height of hypocrisy. TBH, the whole thing sickened me.

You might reply that under oath a person should always be expected to tell the truth. But what kind of fool or monster believes that? You can pretend to believe that, but if you do you are indeed a fool. You can say, but he was president. However, before he was president (and while being president, and after being president) he was a human being.

 

[Craig234]

Remember, it wasn't the BJ that got Clinton into trouble, it was the perjury. Apparently Clinton thought it was worth lying about, perhaps he should have just fessed up, I think most would have understood or at least given him a "Boys in power will be boys in power" pass.

The WMD's were a black eye on the Bush admin, no doubt about that. However, IIRC it wasn't just the US that was fooled, Saddam wanted the world to think he had WMD's and not only was the CIA fooled, but so was many other countries intelligence services. But Bush did lead the charge.

Revisionist history - with some concessions that are accurate.

Clinton's lying wasn't just about the politics, but his liability in a sexual harrassment trial. The jurors were not so likely to say 'boys in power will be boys in power.'

That's not a defense for his deception - I stop short of perjury because of his attempting to deceive within 'technical' accuracy - but those practical issues are yours.

You understate the issue on WMD. Again, we've found that the Bush administration went looking for evidence to back the result it wanted - and found it almost entirely in a couple of places that were incredibly insubstantial and it willingly misrepresented them to claim they were very strong evidence.

The first was the allegation from a British report raising the possibility of Saddam pursuing yellowcake in Nigeria. The CIA had former Ambassador Joseph Wilson investigate this as he had strong connections with the leaders, on the suggestion of his wife in the CIA who knew that, and he reported eh confirmed the reports were baseless. The White House chose to totally ignore his report and claim the British report was correct. Even Bush admitted this was wrong to do.

The second was almost the entire rest of the case relied on one Iraqi defector who was not in a position to offer the information he claimed, detained in Germany. He wanted asylum; only 1 in 25 exiled Iraqis were granted asylsum, so he had a huge incentive to lie, which he did. The Germans shared the infomration of the claims with the US - along with its position that the defector was not reliable. The US never met him, never interviewed him, did not know who he was, but ignored the warning and accepted his statements.

It ignored any information contradicting them.

This was a massive misreprestnation, as it claimed in the UN it had very solid and verified information, a lie.

Saddam had at times tried to misrepresent his lack of WMD, but by this period he was saying accurately he did not, providing the evidence he had and allowed inspectors.

The inspectors said Saddam was providing cooperation and was in the process of determining he had no WMD - a process Bush could have allowed to complete - when instead the Bush administration viewed that conclusion of the truth as a threat to its desire to go to war and its use of the manufactured claims, and it launched the war fast.

That's a historic wrong by the governmen against the trust of the American people.

It's not the first time by any means the president has lied, but it's especially notable given it was to back a large war.

 

[fskimospy]

If by scandals you mean banging interns and such: We need to wait. They usually pop up later.

To me, putting us into exponentially worse debt is also a scandal.

As always, I would like for you to list the specific bills and/or executive orders signed by Obama that you believe created this 'exponentially worse debt'. You might be surprised to find out that in terms of spending Obama has been more restrained than his predecessor.

 

[Muse]

Look, I like Clinton more than I like GWB but it's really hard to prove they KNEW they were lying with regard to the WMDs. Most of the US media and the Democrats seemed to go along with it. There were active UN investigations. Reasonable people seemed to buy into at the time, and not just because of what the US government said but again because of the context at the time. I didn't think Iraq was a threat at the time and I thought (correctly) that the war was a huge mistake but at the end of the day it's not what I think of when I think of "scandal." Valerie Plame was more of a classic scandal.

No, I believe they claimed to have evidence but when you picked it apart it was utterly specious. They didn't do anything like due diligence and they believed what they wanted to believe. Dick Cheney was asked before Iraq was invaded why it was to be done. His reply was essentially that there was nothing you could attack in Afghanistan.

 

[Jhhnn]

Remember, it wasn't the BJ that got Clinton into trouble, it was the perjury. Apparently Clinton thought it was worth lying about, perhaps he should have just fessed up, I think most would have understood or at least given him a "Boys in power will be boys in power" pass.

The WMD's were a black eye on the Bush admin, no doubt about that. However, IIRC it wasn't just the US that was fooled, Saddam wanted the world to think he had WMD's and not only was the CIA fooled, but so was many other countries intelligence services. But Bush did lead the charge.

OH, please. The only people who were fooled were the American public, quite by design. At the time, 9/11, Osama, Saddam, Terrar! WMD's & african uranium were continuously melded together into the greatest warmongering propaganda campaign in modern history.

Just admit it- you'll feel better afterwards. It's the first step in healing.

 

[shortylickens]

Retracted.

Arguing in P&N is not a good idea for me.

 

[Binarycow]

Completely OT, just saw this gem in Binarycow's sig ...



Subtle, yet provocative.



So Mexicans do roofing and yardwork, and koreans eat dog, anymore racist stereotype you want to let roll tonight?

you missed the muslim and black part, wanna go back and pile it on?

 

[Muse]

you missed the muslim and black part, wanna go back and pile it on?

Let me guess, muslims blow people (and themselves) up for fun and in the name of God who is great and blacks eat mostly watermelon and fried chicken and are usually born out of wedlock, and live in ghettos and have criminal records?

BTW, my roof job was done AFAIK entirely by Mexicans, although I didn't ask. They were all latinos, apparently, and conversed in Espanol. Actually, I was pretty impressed at their lack of fear of heights, however a few of them were much too much in a hurry to be done with it when it came to nailing down the shingles and I had to ride herd on the company for quite a while to get the shoddy work fixed (again and again until they got it right!). Oh, and they skimped on the underlayment in one portion (they denied it at first, but I wouldn't let them pull the wool over my eyes), I made them redo that too. Luckily, I'd been up on my roof so many many times I had no fear in doing so. However, the level of confidence of those workers was astonishing. They were so used to working on roofs that they seemed to be fearless. I was glad that nobody fell off my roof, let me tell you! It was quite a week. I did have a lot of work to do cleaning up the mess, but that was partly my fault. I should have layed down plastic all over the attic to catch the debris. The mess outside they did a fair job on, but I still find pieces of my old torn off roof in the bushes. I don't know that they could have prevented that, really.

 

[Onceler]

He's black, anyone exposing a scandal would be pegged a racist.

 

[Craig234]

He's black, anyone exposing a scandal would be pegged a racist.

Wrong, and idiotic.

You are baselessly mocking that any racism exists and being dishonest.

 

[Muse]

Wrong, and idiotic.

You are baselessly mocking that any racism exists and being dishonest.

You're right, that was a very stupid remark. Where I live, everyone's a minority. It's pretty cool.

 

[kage69]

It's true though. Obama hasn't had any real scandals. The Solyndra controversy is about a bad investment, which is not a scandal. The Wikipedia article is pretty good.

GWB didn't actually have that many scandals either. The Valerie Plame was the worst one. Even though I think it wasn't that big of a deal, the Clinton sex scandal was bigger as was the Iran-Contra affair and of course watergate. Obama's been ridiculously clean compared to these guys.

You think Clinton's BJ witch hunt was worse than Plamegate??? Are you fucking serious?

I hope you mean bigger as in media exposure, because if you are seriously submitting you think the loss of Iran specific intelligence fronts and assets was less of a big deal than Clinton being hounded over blowjob related perjury, well then holy crap you just might have a bright future at Fox.

Plamegate and Iran-Contra aided Iran, good people no doubt died as a result of each. The only thing that got ruined in Hummergate was a dress.

 

[monovillage]

Let me guess, muslims blow people (and themselves) up for fun and in the name of God who is great and blacks eat mostly watermelon and fried chicken and are usually born out of wedlock, and live in ghettos and have criminal records?

BTW, my roof job was done AFAIK entirely by Mexicans, although I didn't ask. They were all latinos, apparently, and conversed in Espanol. Actually, I was pretty impressed at their lack of fear of heights, however a few of them were much too much in a hurry to be done with it when it came to nailing down the shingles and I had to ride herd on the company for quite a while to get the shoddy work fixed (again and again until they got it right!). Oh, and they skimped on the underlayment in one portion (they denied it at first, but I wouldn't let them pull the wool over my eyes), I made them redo that too. Luckily, I'd been up on my roof so many many times I had no fear in doing so. However, the level of confidence of those workers was astonishing. They were so used to working on roofs that they seemed to be fearless. I was glad that nobody fell off my roof, let me tell you! It was quite a week. I did have a lot of work to do cleaning up the mess, but that was partly my fault. I should have layed down plastic all over the attic to catch the debris. The mess outside they did a fair job on, but I still find pieces of my old torn off roof in the bushes. I don't know that they could have prevented that, really.

Hiring a competent roofing company.

 

[Muse]

Hiring a competent roofing company.

I got several bids, some were pretty high. I liked what the bidder had to say, he said the right things, they had good reviews. The proposed fixes that the guy came up with were actually the smartest I'd heard by far. The bid struck me as reasonable. Not super cheap but not inflated like a few of the others seemed to be. However, if I had it to do again, I'd probably do it differently, and here's why:

The company had something like 6 different crews, each with its own supervisor and crew. Thus, the accountability suffered. If I were to do it today I would look for a company who's owner worked right on site, just one crew, make sure they had good reviews (talk to past customers), the owner really knows his business, and a good price. That's the smart way to go. I think mine worked out, but if I weren't there to ride herd on them, there would have been serious mistakes, as I noted. I made them fix that stuff. However, they may have made others (I figure) that I didn't (couldn't) detect. It's been over 6 years (the warranty is 7, IIRC) and so far I don't think there have been any leaks. The roof looks great. They used the best shingles.

 

[monovillage]

You got a decent company then, some of the other things you had listed made me think they were a complete disaster. They still weren't following OSHA regs though, my flag always goes up when the workers make unsafe shortcuts.