Anyone work at a national laboratory? Interested in fusion or Gen IV fission reactors

[Jeff7]

Does anyone here work at a national laboratory, such as Argonne National Laboratory?

I'm getting the feeling that I've pretty well topped out where I work without getting into management. I have very little desire to manage people. I see only tepid interest in going back to pre-2009 types of interesting design projects. They've found that I'm really good at doing tedious tasks that no one else can do, along with end user tech support, so I get stuck doing those things. I'm also good at inventory management. (Did I mention that I work in the Engineering department? I don't get to do much in the way of R&D or design work anymore.)

NASA-type high-tech things have been interesting for a long time. I also love the idea of making progress on fusion power, though it seems that since the late 70s, at least in terms of funding priorities, no one wants fusion to happen. (There's a reason it's always "40 years away": The people working on it figured out a bare minimum level of "fusion will never happen," and the government decided that they could push the bar even lower.)
So maybe we'll never make it to fusion, at least in the US.
Maybe fission then? Gen IV reactors are intriguing, mainly the designs that could use existing nuclear waste as fuel. (Oh, that's how we solve the problem of zoning off radioactive waste for >10k years: Convert the majority of it to energy.)

I've got a B.S. in mechanical engineering technology, and can also handle electronics and some light programming, + 5 years at a small manufacturing company. I don't know where that fits into a project like fusion or GenIV fission.

I also don't know what working at a national laboratory would be like. I'd prefer to spend the time working, and not 65% of the time in meetings talking about work that might occur at some point in time.


I'll add that I don't really want to live in California (there goes 98% of the options), nor somewhere that the only water supply is ancient aquifers that are being rapidly depleted - I live near a large body of fresh water, and "drought" doesn't seem to be much of an issue here, ever. Certainly nothing close to what California's seeing right now. I don't think I'd be a fan of earthquakes either. I like the idea of stable bedrock.
Can't say I'd be a fan of death-by-tornado-Oklahoma either.


Argonne....maybe?

So I'm a bit picky, and I don't quite know what I'm looking for. Is anyone willing to offer a bit of a brain dump on the subject?


Edit: I also do not want to work on weapons. The worst fear I've got in this kind of job is that anything I make might ever fail in a way that kills someone. Even if the law wouldn't put me out of this line of work, I'm sure I'd put myself out of this line of work. I would not take it well, putting it nicely. Designing things that are intended to kill people is not something I'm willing to do.
So some of the national labs have done weapons research, and still do. I don't want them to try roping me into that sort of project.

 

[Mixolydian]

My aunt works at Argonne.

 

[MrColin]

A STEM degree doesn't excuse you from kitchen duty. I'm going to start you on the fryer and once I see that you've mastered that we can talk about sandwich assembly. Once you have demonstrated your reliability we'll see about training you on the cash drawer and the drive through window.

 

[Gibsons]

Well, there was talk of this SSC thing in TX... but you already covered the funding problem.

Sorry, would love to help, but I got nothin.

 

[MongGrel]

A STEM degree doesn't excuse you from kitchen duty. I'm going to start you on the fryer and once I see that you've mastered that we can talk about sandwich assembly. Once you have demonstrated your reliability we'll see about training you on the cash drawer and the drive through window.

Kinda what he said to be honest.

 

[Gibsons]

A STEM degree doesn't excuse you from kitchen duty. I'm going to start you on the fryer and once I see that you've mastered that we can talk about sandwich assembly. Once you have demonstrated your reliability we'll see about training you on the cash drawer and the drive through window.

I think he's saying he's done the fryer and is looking for the cash register.

/shrug

 

[Jeff7]

A STEM degree doesn't excuse you from kitchen duty. I'm going to start you on the fryer and once I see that you've mastered that we can talk about sandwich assembly. Once you have demonstrated your reliability we'll see about training you on the cash drawer and the drive through window.

I started in more interesting and in-depth stuff than I'm doing now.
I wanted to be at work. It was interesting work. There were projects that had been pain-in-the-butt types of things that hadn't worked for awhile. I got dumped into them, and was permitted the time and resources to make them work, and work well.
Now I can't go much more than 5-10 minutes without an interruption. Walking a few hundred feet through the building can end up taking 40 minutes because 4 people each remember that they need something done. Sales support, tech support, vendor relations, inventory corrections, production support......sometimes "engineering" does seep in. Not much of it anymore though. No long-term projects, and the priority is always on helping Sales with questions, creating bills of materials, and helping Production do their stuff to meet ship dates.

So I started with what I figured I'd be doing. It's gone downhill since the first year. I'm realizing that, in retrospect, the "It'll get better!" promises have been continuing for a surprising amount of time, but there's no sign of anything being done about it any time soon.
Sales and staff have grown, but the technical expertise has dwindled due to turnover. Those of us still there who do have that expertise find ourselves in constant demand throughout the day to make decisions about smaller things, or things outside of Engineering's jurisdiction. (Does an Engineering Department typically make sales projections, help decide marketing strategy, manage inventory, negotiate vendor pricing, or determine proper purchasing practices? Don't they usually design and prototype things? ...Or is this a normal-dysfunctional small business?)

I think he's saying he's done the fryer and is looking for the cash register.

/shrug

I'd rather be designing a better, safer, and more efficient fryer. Or an automated cash machine.
And while I've still gotten regular pay increases and acquired decent respect as someone who knows what he's doing, I feel like they don't know what to do with me. Forgive the uncharacteristic immodesty here....but Sales loves having me talk to customers, as I have a habit of making potential customers confident that they'll receive good products. I can also explain things pretty well to people, so they also like me to do tech support because, again, I'm good at it. And they like me to work with contract manufacturers because I can write good work instructions. Or fix machinery in the shop. Or create good CAD models and drawings because I can be obsessively thorough, or do circuitboard layouts for the same reason. Or fly out to job sites because customers have a habit of becoming repeat customers after they've worked with me. Or (sometimes) design things that reduce labor in the shop and reduce materials expenditures. Or improve processes to reduce labor costs.

I started being able to design and build and prototype things. You know, engineering.
(And I was able to have adequate peace to be able to focus on something for a good chunk of time. I'm serious when I say 5-10 minutes without interruption is normal nowadays. Today it was pushing the lower end of that spectrum.)
Then they discovered that I'm versatile, and everyone wants a piece.

I wanted to go back to that delightful job I had back in the first year or two after I started. Since there's no signs of that happening, my mind's started wandering, if you take my meaning, and it's ventured into something more high-tech.
Fusion's always been fascinating, and I think it's going to be the next huge leap of progress for our species. Something that could be along the lines of figuring out steam power. Gen IV fission reactors hold great potential as well: Incredible efficiency, consumption of waste stockpiles as fuel, and intrinsically safe design. I'd like to be a part of that, and find myself working with some darn fun equipment.

 

[SsupernovaE]

I work at a national lab but we do high energy and astrophysics. But I have feeling that unless you have at least an MS in Physics, you wouldn't be considered. Now they do hire MechEs, but I don't know what they hire them to do. Sorry I couldn't have been more of a help.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

http://www.spacex.com/careers

???

 

[chusteczka]

I did a summer internship at Argonne National Laboratory some time ago and enjoyed the experience very much. However, it is a research environment with mostly Post-Doc opportunities. Someone with a high level Master's Degree seemed to be considered a low-level grunt worker, and the only M.S. I can remember working there was a sysadmin.

It takes a hell of a lot of intelligence and hard work to achieve a B.S. in engineering. While such a degree provides occupational stability, it leaves us at a grunt level often walked over.

IMO, if you want to fulfill your desires, you will need to achieve a master's degree.

My B.S. is in Comp Sci but I have worked closely with a high-level M.S. Professional Mechanical Engineer for the last 4+ years as entrepreneurial inventors developing automotive drain plugs and residential countertop water filters. There is a hell of a lot of experience I have relied on him for in developing our relatively low complexity projects that I expect are beyond a B.S. level. From schematic design, to materials both metal and plastic, hardness and strength testing, corrosion resistance and electroplating requirements, fluid flow rates, valve comparison and evaluation, machining tool & die procedures, and more that I cannot think of right now.

My friend worked for a few years in one industry, then switched to another, and another after that. From aeronautical weapons and missile design, to train transportation, to residential water valves, to food processing equipment. That wide experience foundation has him well prepared for most any opportunity. You may want to try gaining experience in a different industry.

 

[OverVolt]

Oak ridge?

 

[norseamd]

nuclear power needs are more funding and research

 

[NutBucket]

http://www.spacex.com/careers

???

Californistan????

And working at SpaceX is what you imagine working for a startup is like; long hours and pressure to never quit. A research environment like Argonne is completely different.

 

[bradley]

I do believe Tesla had the right idea about harnessing power from the earth. However there's even less money to be made in earth power than solar; therefore the *powers* that be won't allow exploring that ability in our lifetimes.

Secondarily I have leveled criticisms against nuclear in the past, but actually do like the idea of fusion. However to launch a single fusion reactor would take an extraordinary large scope, mindset and vision lacking in the US these days.

The only agency I would actually trust to engineer and execute plans on a fusion reactor is the marvelous NASA. In fact, we need to dissemble part of our industrial military complex to refund NASA, ASAP. Not only would I trust NASA with the direction of this country, I would entrust them with my life. Wouldn't mind working for them myself.

 

[norseamd]

I do believe Tesla had the right idea about harnessing power from the earth. However there's even less money to be made in earth power than solar; therefore the *powers* that be won't allow exploring that ability in our lifetimes.

Secondarily I have leveled criticisms against nuclear in the past, but actually do like the idea of fusion. However to launch a single fusion reactor would take an extraordinary large scope, mindset and vision lacking in the US these days.

The only agency I would actually trust to engineer and execute plans on a fusion reactor is the marvelous NASA. In fact, we need to dissemble part of our industrial military complex to refund NASA, ASAP. Not only would I trust NASA with the direction of this country, I would entrust them with my life. Wouldn't mind working for them myself.

exactly

and they waste no money on spacewalks to inspect spacecraft condition

they already know everything important

 

[MrColin]

You sound pretty damn talented, I'm rooting for you to design/invent things and pitch them to VC, or launch from the garage, or both.

Getting into basic research in any field will require more degrees, unless you want to do inventory and tech support in a basic research facility.

You'll be awesome either way, right now would probably be the time to start looking at schools if that's the way you want to go.

 

[OverVolt]

Thorium reactors are worth exploring. Is there any credibility to them or no?

Supposedly the design we dedicated ourselves to was the one that also makes it possible to make nuclear weapons from the waste but different fissile fuels could supposedly be safer, so they say.

Kind of makes sense since the only time nuclear reactors actually got enough R&D was during the cold war. Now we are stuck with the tech. Other fission tech apparently exists.

Th-232, U-235 and U-238 are primordial nuclides, having existed in their current form for over 4.5 billion years, predating the formation of the Earth; they were forged in the cores of dying stars through the r-process and scattered across the galaxy by supernovas.[8] Their radioactive decay produces about half of the earth's internal heat.[9]

What

Okay thats pretty cool.

 

[Born2bwire]

I've worked a a turn or two at Argonne East... well back when there was still an east and west now that I think about it. A very nice campus being in the middle of Waterfall Glen and some of the facilities are nice, depends which building as the campus was started post-war. Is Argonne still doing much with nuclear reactors now? It was my recollection that the west site was where they were doing a lot of the thorium and spent fuel processing stuff. I knew a few people working on nuclear in Darien but it wasn't reactor work.

Most of what I saw there was in research, engineering was more support. For example, the engineers that I worked with at APS were primarily doing maintenance. They were maintaining and upgrading the systems on the beamline for the physicists that were buying time. The real interesting engineering work was back when they were building the damn thing. I've used some good scientific computing software that they developed in their math department, like MPICH. So their may be some good work there. But it's a research driven place. There are solid engineering positions, but I don't know how easy it would be to get into one.

Californistan????

And working at SpaceX is what you imagine working for a startup is like; long hours and pressure to never quit. A research environment like Argonne is completely different.

When I was talking with SpaceX they were pretty unapologetic about the long hours everybody does there. Personally, I'm done with doing that. I want to be able to divorce myself from work at the end of the day. But they really do seem to be one of the places to go if you want in on an innovative engineering job.

 

[AMCRambler]

R & D? Yeah I guess if you want to work with cutting edge technology but my bet is the job market for that is tight and especially competitive.

You ought to get a job in the energy industry. Talk about growth in this country, mechanical engineers are in high demand by shale gas companies, pipeline companies and generation companies. Forget designing next-gen stuff and instead help build current gen facilities. I keep hearing liquefied natural gas compressor stations are being built to export our gas to Europe. More big generation and transmission projects are huge in NY right now thanks to NYC not wanting generation in their back yard and load increasing every year. With electric cars coming it will only continue to grow. A lot of interesting opportunities out there. IMO.

 

[Muse]

Jeff7, well I've lived in CA for almost all my life, mostly in the most earthquake dangerous zone (I'm 1.5 miles from the Hayward Fault), and a lot in L.A. and the worst quake experience I've gone through in these many decades was the Loma Prieta quake that happened during a World Series game in 1989. It was nothing terrific, no big deal in terms of disrupting life, for me anyway. Now the possibility exists. Yes, I'm thinking I should maybe move before the big one hits. Especially with my house.

The drought? Well, I'll tell you, here in Berkeley the water tastes terrific! I get to drink as much of it as I want. It's cheap. If you believe the utility, it's been purified completely adequately. Yes, there's pressure on some levels to not waste water, it's no big deal. I washed my car today (didn't waste water), watered my little lawn and my vegetables, took a shower, washed my dishes. There's water. There will be water. They project a better than even chance of an el nino next winter with higher than average rainfall. A good book about water politics in this country, with an emphasis on the west is Cadillac Desert. Really good book.

Lawrence Berkeley Lab is right up the hill, I drove past it today. It's expanding to additional location soon, I hear. Lawrence Livermore Lab is probably a whole lot bigger, but it's out in Livermore, which is kind of the boondocks around here compared to Berkeley.

 

[Muse]

I started in more interesting and in-depth stuff than I'm doing now.
I wanted to be at work. It was interesting work. There were projects that had been pain-in-the-butt types of things that hadn't worked for awhile. I got dumped into them, and was permitted the time and resources to make them work, and work well.
Now I can't go much more than 5-10 minutes without an interruption. Walking a few hundred feet through the building can end up taking 40 minutes because 4 people each remember that they need something done. -snip-

I guess you need to get your resume together and do a serious job hunt. Or go back to school. You are clearly not happy where you are.

Just an idea off the top of my head... how about working with/for Elon Musk. That might really work out. I've read about him, saw a great bit on him on 60 minutes, I bet you can find it on Youtube. I met a guy a few weeks ago whose brother does work for/with Musk. He met the guy, was really impressed. He wasn't sure he could get a job with him, but I think you could. Maybe the space shuttle, Tesla or maybe his fantastic idea for super high speed vacuum rail in California, or some other fantastic brainstorm. He has a knack for coming up with great projects that actually work out!

http://www.spacex.com/careers

???

Yup.

Fusion's always been fascinating, and I think it's going to be the next huge leap of progress for our species. Something that could be along the lines of figuring out steam power. Gen IV fission reactors hold great potential as well: Incredible efficiency, consumption of waste stockpiles as fuel, and intrinsically safe design. I'd like to be a part of that, and find myself working with some darn fun equipment.

Those are great ideas.

 

[Jeff7]

I work at a national lab but we do high energy and astrophysics. But I have feeling that unless you have at least an MS in Physics, you wouldn't be considered. Now they do hire MechEs, but I don't know what they hire them to do. Sorry I couldn't have been more of a help.

I figured that the high-ups (scientists, Ph.Ds and such) would need someone to do design and building of things they need. Pressure tanks, electronics for control systems, heat transfer systems...those sorts of things, while they remain focused on their research, math, theory, and whatever else it is that they normally do.

I did a summer internship at Argonne National Laboratory some time ago and enjoyed the experience very much. However, it is a research environment with mostly Post-Doc opportunities. Someone with a high level Master's Degree seemed to be considered a low-level grunt worker, and the only M.S. I can remember working there was a sysadmin.

It takes a hell of a lot of intelligence and hard work to achieve a B.S. in engineering. While such a degree provides occupational stability, it leaves us at a grunt level often walked over.

IMO, if you want to fulfill your desires, you will need to achieve a master's degree.

And maybe that would come about naturally as part of a job.
I recall hearing this from the professors at college and from people in industry: If you're in engineering, don't get a Master's degree unless your employer is paying for it.
Or maybe if you plan to go into teaching. The Engineering Technology professors had Master's degrees and 20+ years of industry experience. The regular Engineering side was where you saw the Ph.Ds, but less industry experience. They dealt more with the theory side of things. As I interpret it, the spectrum is: Technician, Engineering Technologist, Engineer, Scientist.

My B.S. is in Comp Sci but I have worked closely with a high-level M.S. Professional Mechanical Engineer for the last 4+ years as entrepreneurial inventors developing automotive drain plugs and residential countertop water filters. There is a hell of a lot of experience I have relied on him for in developing our relatively low complexity projects that I expect are beyond a B.S. level. From schematic design, to materials both metal and plastic, hardness and strength testing, corrosion resistance and electroplating requirements, fluid flow rates, valve comparison and evaluation, machining tool & die procedures, and more that I cannot think of right now.

My friend worked for a few years in one industry, then switched to another, and another after that. From aeronautical weapons and missile design, to train transportation, to residential water valves, to food processing equipment. That wide experience foundation has him well prepared for most any opportunity. You may want to try gaining experience in a different industry.

Sounds almost like a course plan for one or two junior-year semesters.

Oak ridge?

Interesting...I shall investigate further.
Fusion research, and high temperature superconductor research too. Nice. (Inexpensive room-temperature superconductors is something else that would utterly revolutionize many markets.)

Californistan????

And working at SpaceX is what you imagine working for a startup is like; long hours and pressure to never quit. A research environment like Argonne is completely different.

They also sound like they want lots of "extracurricular" types of things on your activities manifest. I do like the idea of a ~40-44hr workweek. Work to live, etc. I know some people think that attitude means that you're lazy or a poor worker. I also know how to work when on the clock. I'm expecting the company to pay me, and they're expecting me to make them profitable. Meet expectations, dammit.

You sound pretty damn talented, I'm rooting for you to design/invent things and pitch them to VC, or launch from the garage, or both.

Getting into basic research in any field will require more degrees, unless you want to do inventory and tech support in a basic research facility.

You'll be awesome either way, right now would probably be the time to start looking at schools if that's the way you want to go.

Thank you.
My sister's also been pushing me to do a Master's degree.
$$$ keeps coming to mind. And $$$ again. And then even more of it.

Thorium reactors are worth exploring. Is there any credibility to them or no?

Supposedly the design we dedicated ourselves to was the one that also makes it possible to make nuclear weapons from the waste but different fissile fuels could supposedly be safer, so they say.

Thorium's also interesting, though it sounds even less likely to see commercial application (in the US anyway) than other designs, given that we can't use its byproducts to efficiently exterminate people. Maybe that'll turn out to be incorrect.
Though without the GenIV reactors to use it for for fuel, we could still be left with all of our current stockpiles of long-term radioactive waste. (Or we could at least lift the damn reprocessing ban.)

Kind of makes sense since the only time nuclear reactors actually got enough R&D was during the cold war. Now we are stuck with the tech. Other fission tech apparently exists.
...

Or particle accelerators.

"Wait, you're saying that we can't use this technology to kill communists? Explain again why you think you should still receive funding."




Edit: Lunchtime's over. More later.