Apology thread

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Well, they're in recess right at the moment, just for starters. It needs to be understood that impeachment by the House will likely not result in removal from office by the GOP Senate. I'm all in favor of making them own it but I'm not prepared to predict what kind of backlash could be conjured up from a failed attempt.
Convicted in the Senate or not, an impeached President running for election is still an impeached President running for election.
However, I am inclined to agree with the logic that getting the public off the Distracting Orange Clown and on to the issues that the People genuinely care about. But keep in mind, if the Dems take that route, Trump's campaign will make that a front and center campaign issue, with legions of trolls playing the 'The Democrat Congress didn't do anything about Trump" game. It will be the "Hillary cheated Bernie" of the 2020 campaign to keep swing voters disenchanted and at home.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Nobody did that either.
Yes, they did. For 8 long years. With the current President at the forefront of those attacks every step of the way. Just because your memory sucks doesn't mean the rest of us have the same problem.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,558
15,444
136
Convicted in the Senate or not, an impeached President running for election is still an impeached President running for election.
However, I am inclined to agree with the logic that getting the public off the Distracting Orange Clown and on to the issues that the People genuinely care about. But keep in mind, if the Dems take that route, Trump's campaign will make that a front and center campaign issue, with legions of trolls playing the 'The Democrat Congress didn't do anything about Trump" game. It will be the "Hillary cheated Bernie" of the 2020 campaign to keep swing voters disenchanted and at home.

They should move to impeach but they shouldn't drag it out.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
You mean reality? Is your bubble so fortified that you honestly aren't aware of trump being the birther in chief?
Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.

The trolls are trying to rewrite history.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Tell me. Is it your opinion that if the Mueller investigation led to the discovery of a crime against Trump, then he would be guilty of obstruction?
If the Mueller investigation led to discovery of a crime, then Trump would be prosecuted for that crime in addition to obstructing the investigation of it. Since there is no evidence of an underlying crime, the obstruction charge is tenuous.

This does not mean obstruction did not happen. It means obstruction becomes more difficult to prove. As I said earlier, Mueller also acknowledged that the President does have the authority and discretion to defend himself using the powers of his office. Prosecuting intent absent an underlying crime is an exercise in futility.

Mueller said as much. Does not exonerate but provides rationale for why he didn’t bury Trump or his sons on obstruction.
 
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dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,709
136
Yes, they did. For 8 long years. With the current President at the forefront of those attacks every step of the way. Just because your memory sucks doesn't mean the rest of us have the same problem.
ya, I'm thinking the whole of the GOP should be tested for Alzheimers
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,709
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If the Mueller investigation led to discovery of a crime, then Trump would be prosecuted for that crime in addition to obstructing the investigation of it. Since there is no evidence of an underlying crime, the obstruction charge is tenuous.

This does not mean obstruction did not happen. It means obstruction becomes more difficult to prove. As I said earlier, Mueller also acknowledged that the President does have the authority and discretion to defend himself using the powers of his office. Prosecuting intent absent an underlying crime is an exercise in futility.

Mueller said as much. Does not exonerate but provides rationale for why he didn’t bury Trump or his sons on obstruction.
there is a standing policy in the DOJ that they wont indict a sitting president so no, if they found a crime in all likelihood he would not be charged until he is out of office, no and ifs or buts.

I don't know how many time that fact has been stated on these very boards.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,752
28,946
136
Clinton was impeached for 1 count of obstruction of justice for lying about a blowjob.

Trump pales in comparison. Anyone want to guess who ran his impeachment trial in the Senate??

The same person who said the following...
He doesn’t have to say ‘let’s obstruct justice’ for it to be a crime.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Yes, they did. For 8 long years. With the current President at the forefront of those attacks every step of the way. Just because your memory sucks doesn't mean the rest of us have the same problem.

I'm certain it has less to do with memory and more to do with loving Putin...
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
there is a standing policy in the DOJ that they wont indict a sitting president so no, if they found a crime in all likelihood he would not be charged until he is out of office, no and ifs or buts.
True, but the nature of these charges are a bit unprecedented. Regardless, it doen’t change the fact that Mueller did clear Trump of collusion, and engaged the appropriate authorities to prosecute the members of Trump’s inner circle accused of financial and campaign law crimes uncovered by his investigation.

Trump will most definitely face charges once he leaves office.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,709
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True, but the nature of these charges are a bit unprecedented. Regardless, it doen’t change the fact that Mueller did clear Trump of collusion, and engaged the appropriate authorities to prosecute the members of Trump’s inner circle accused of financial and campaign law crimes uncovered by his investigation.

Trump will most definitely face charges once he leaves office.
we still don't know what in the sealed indictments and obstruction doesn't need the collusion/conspiracy charge to be valid.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
we still don't know what in the sealed indictments and obstruction doesn't need the collusion/conspiracy charge to be valid.
No it does not, which is why Mueller should testify before Congress, as his report did not provide a knockout blow.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,653
50,913
136
If the Mueller investigation led to discovery of a crime, then Trump would be prosecuted for that crime in addition to obstructing the investigation of it. Since there is no evidence of an underlying crime, the obstruction charge is tenuous.

This does not mean obstruction did not happen. It means obstruction becomes more difficult to prove. As I said earlier, Mueller also acknowledged that the President does have the authority and discretion to defend himself using the powers of his office. Prosecuting intent absent an underlying crime is an exercise in futility.

Mueller said as much. Does not exonerate but provides rationale for why he didn’t bury Trump or his sons on obstruction.

The reason given by Mueller as to why he didn’t bury Trump on obstruction is explicitly laid out in the report and has zero to do with the amount of evidence against him.

Mueller says he STARTED from the point that the president could not be indicted therefore he started from a place where he would not make a judgment on Trump’s guilt because it would be unfair. Those are his words.

Scooter Libby literally went to prison for obstruction of justice without an underlying crime being proven. He’s not remotely alone.
 
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