Apple A8x

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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,753
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It's fast, probably comparable to a 2C/2T SB at the same frequency.
Heh. I'm still on Penryn, for my main laptop, and running OS X Yosemite 10.10 too. Core 2 Duo 2.26 GHz P8400.

Not that Geekbench is the greatest test, but I'm curious what score the A8X will get nonetheless. 3500-3700?

My P8400 supposedly gets around 3300-3400 or so.


Good luck - and please let us know how much RAM there is (if we don't get the news b/4 you get your iPad).
I'm not going to be the guinea pig. I won't open the box until I know it's 2 GB.
 
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thunng8

Member
Jan 8, 2013
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I don't like Apple,

Yep, thats it.

short bursts because Cyclone can't operate at max speeds for long so it's as fast as 8 years old desktop CPU for a second or 2 maybe 4 and back to being 2x slower due to throttling.

Can you be more informed before spouting nonsense. Under a really heavy load, after 10min, A8 in the iphone6 went from 1.4ghz to approx 1.15ghz and maintained 1.4ghz for approx 40 sec.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/iphone-6-and-6-plus-in-deep-with-apples-thinnest-phones/3/
 

Lepton87

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2009
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thunng8

Member
Jan 8, 2013
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I had tests done on A7 in mind. I don't feel like looking for those, but AFAIR there were done on AT. And it throttled VERY quickly.

Yes, a7 in the iPhone 5s does throttle (not in the iPad Air though, that one maintains high frequencies), but still no where near your earlier claims.

Btw .. Found the link

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7460/apple-ipad-air-review/3

Still nowhere near your claims.

And where are you getting 15w from?

Link says platform power of 11w. Ie. The entire ipad including screen running a power virus. I.e would never get up to that under normal circumstances.

Intel's 45w TDP quad core mobile chip can get up to 80w under similar circumstances.
 
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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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thunng8

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Jan 8, 2013
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Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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Ok thx. The Geekbench browser just listed the scores without specifying the Geekbench version. I made the mistake of assuming all the recent entries were Geekbench 3. I guess that explains why there is such a big ranges of scores.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/search?q=P8400&commit=Search

Geekbench with its version 3 tries to standardize its number's rating so its single thread score with an core i5 2520m (2.5 to 3.2 ghz) will be 2500. That said if you look at the results you will see the core i5 2520m scoring anywhere from 2000 to 2800, and some scores far below 2000.

The 64 bit Nvidia Arm chip Project Denver in the Nexus 9 scores 1903 single thread 3166 multi thread. This chip's highest frequency is 2.5 ghz according to geekbench 3.

Ipad Air (cyclone A7) scores 1472 / 2674 at 1.4 ghz

Iphone 6+ (a8) scores 1610 / 2881 at the same 1.4 ghz.

-----

Do note I personally consider Geekbench to be garbage and useless, it may be one of the better multiplatform benches, but these benchmarks are still bad. It may be better than javascript, it may be better than a dozen other things, but it is nowhere near good.

Do understand it is very easy to throw stones at things such as Geekbench and I realize I have not personally created anything better and I respect the development that is put into it but to me it is diagnostic noise and to think it means anything is to think knowing someone's knuckle size will tell you anything useful about their dna or their life outcomes.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
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Yep, thats it.

Can you be more informed before spouting nonsense. Under a really heavy load, after 10min, A8 in the iphone6 went from 1.4ghz to approx 1.15ghz and maintained 1.4ghz for approx 40 sec.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/iphone-6-and-6-plus-in-deep-with-apples-thinnest-phones/3/

Geekbench is EXTREMELY TAME by x86 standards. Running it on my laptop it is (as I posted earlier) extremely bursty and CPU power is significantly lower that something like CB much like prime 95 or linpack.

Package power (3630qm @ 3.2) for GB 3 is around 20-30W, for CB its around 37W.



Do note I personally consider Geekbench to be garbage and useless, it may be one of the better multiplatform benches, but these benchmarks are still bad. It may be better than javascript, it may be better than a dozen other things, but it is nowhere near good.

Do understand it is very easy to throw stones at things such as Geekbench and I realize I have not personally created anything better and I respect the development that is put into it but to me it is diagnostic noise and to think it means anything is to think knowing someone's knuckle size will tell you anything useful about their dna or their life outcomes.

Its fairly easy to prove GB is nothing more than an approximation.

For Example Geekbench SHA 1/2 operates on a single data buffer.

Its patently obvious that in this case Geekbench 3 is not even using SSE 4 instructions.

Typical apple 4750HQ iris pro 2.0-3.2 4C/8T

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/1038705

SHA 1 MT - 1.22 GB/sec
SHA 2 MT - 494 MB/sec

SiSoft Sandra SHA page

http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/?d=qa&f=cpu_sha_hw

Test platform- Haswell 4C/8T iris pro 2.0 -2.5 ghz



Scores are a little lower because of the reduced clockspeed but one easily sees that with updated instructions HW is massively faster than GB reports it to be.

Geekbench plays up all these little tricks, to the effect of favouring mobile with bursts and outdated instructions on the desktop. This kind of stuff is why its not intensive at all on the desktop.
 
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Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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Enigmoid said:
Lots of stuff

...

...

Geekbench plays up all these little tricks, to the effect of favouring mobile with bursts and outdated instructions on the desktop. This kind of stuff is why its not intensive at all on the desktop.

And don't get me wrong there is a point to have benchmark that tests all these bursts and stuff for certain usage models this makes sense. All those fancy instructions with vectors and such is not important if you are not doing anything that takes advantage of vectors and things. "Normal people" (I am using this as a pejorative) may have no need whatsoever for those instruction sets, but those instruction sets provide an order of magnitude improvement.

But then again you use a can use a mobile cellphone differently than a tablet differently than a light and portable laptop different than a desktop / workstation. I would not wanting to be doing lots of data entry on any cellphone and if I did I would want a blackberry with an actual keyboard. Same thing when we start moving to more complicated stuff such as engineering, graphics, video rendering, scientific/math calculations, program compiling etc.

Like I said earlier Geekbench is useless to me. It is just not good, it may be better than other mobile benchmarks but it is still not good or useful.

Also your a8 about throttling is also useless for me for unless you are playing a video game 1.2 ghz vs 1.4 is plenty of speed for a cellphone (with apples a7 and a8 ipc). I want burst speed and dynamic range for a cell phone usage model, you know race to sleep and quick to ramp when I want it. 4 minutes before throttling is plenty of enough time. And if you are playing a video game setting the cpu goal to something like 1 ghz instead of 1.4 makes sense to keep thermals down, maximize battery life, allow n-1 or n-2 generations to play the game etc. That said throttling to 50% cpu speed instead of 75% cpu speed looks really bad (5s numbers, 6+ is good in my opinion)
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
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And don't get me wrong there is a point to have benchmark that tests all these bursts and stuff for certain usage models this makes sense. All those fancy instructions with vectors and such is not important if you are not doing anything that takes advantage of vectors and things. "Normal people" (I am using this as a pejorative) may have no need whatsoever for those instruction sets, but those instruction sets provide an order of magnitude improvement.

But then again you use a can use a mobile cellphone differently than a tablet differently than a light and portable laptop different than a desktop / workstation. I would not wanting to be doing lots of data entry on any cellphone and if I did I would want a blackberry with an actual keyboard. Same thing when we start moving to more complicated stuff such as engineering, graphics, video rendering, scientific/math calculations, program compiling etc.

Like I said earlier Geekbench is useless to me. It is just not good, it may be better than other mobile benchmarks but it is still not good or useful.

Also your a8 about throttling is also useless for me for unless you are playing a video game 1.2 ghz vs 1.4 is plenty of speed for a cellphone (with apples a7 and a8 ipc). I want burst speed and dynamic range for a cell phone usage model, you know race to sleep and quick to ramp when I want it. 4 minutes before throttling is plenty of enough time. And if you are playing a video game setting the cpu goal to something like 1 ghz instead of 1.4 makes sense to keep thermals down, maximize battery life, allow n-1 or n-2 generations to play the game etc. That said throttling to 50% cpu speed instead of 75% cpu speed looks really bad (5s numbers, 6+ is good in my opinion)

That is fine but Geekbench's tests are not representative of real world tasks. Few are doing encryption on the computing device and the people who do are not running tests that take 1 or 2 seconds. Now I agree with you but running encryption without those kinds of instructions is pretty poor (truecrypt, 7-zip, and winrar support AVX with newer releases). The problem is that GB is running all kinds of heavy tests without the proper instruction support.


That A8 throttle test doesn't stress the GPU at ALL.
 

thunng8

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Jan 8, 2013
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That A8 throttle test doesn't stress the GPU at ALL.

Interesting to note that using GFXBench 3.0, the iphone 6 doesn't throttle at all.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8554/the-iphone-6-review/7
(look at previous page for peak performance)

While the Galaxy S5 (LTE-A model) goes from 27.2 down to 14.0fps by the end of the test.

LG G3 goes from 20.5 down to 10.7

Even Nvidia Shield tablet goes from 57.1 to 49.7
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
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Interesting to note that using GFXBench 3.0, the iphone 6 doesn't throttle at all.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8554/the-iphone-6-review/7
(look at previous page for peak performance)

While the Galaxy S5 (LTE-A model) goes from 27.2 down to 14.0fps by the end of the test.

LG G3 goes from 20.5 down to 10.7

Even Nvidia Shield tablet goes from 57.1 to 49.7

Yes, this is true.

However, there is not a lot of CPU load during GFX bench. My point was that under heavy load it is possible for throttling to occur (CPU + GPU).

Other phones don't throttle nearly as much.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
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Will GFXBench and 3DMark ever be updated to support Metal?

Maybe Epic will release an Unreal benchmark tool.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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Encryption stuff
You are 100% right. I did not think of encryption when I respond with my earlier post. Mainly because I do not care about this stuff on an instinctual level, it does not motivate me if that makes sense. But my rational brain, understand this is of profound importance with businesses and keeping the internet secure. You know encryption is the man behind the curtain kind of thing, you are not supposed to see him. You are supposed to be in disneyworld not see all the things behind the curtain to make it possible. Encryption is damn important and if avx and other things can help that is great and should be implemented in a true benchmark.

I was thinking of all the awesome stuff avx helps like medical imaging, scientific calculation, probability calculation etc. I did not even think of encryption, you are not going to run these awesome tasks on mobile silicon.

You made a very good point!
 

thunng8

Member
Jan 8, 2013
167
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Yes, this is true.

However, there is not a lot of CPU load during GFX bench. My point was that under heavy load it is possible for throttling to occur (CPU + GPU).

Other phones don't throttle nearly as much.

Not sure what you are implying. by "Other phones don't throttle nearly as much."

Do you mean other phone don't throttle as much as the iPhone 6 since that is absurd as in GFXBench (with little CPU load), the flagship models from Samsung and LG already halved their frame rates.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
You are 100% right. I did not think of encryption when I respond with my earlier post. Mainly because I do not care about this stuff on an instinctual level, it does not motivate me if that makes sense. But my rational brain, understand this is of profound importance with businesses and keeping the internet secure. You know encryption is the man behind the curtain kind of thing, you are not supposed to see him. You are supposed to be in disneyworld not see all the things behind the curtain to make it possible. Encryption is damn important and if avx and other things can help that is great and should be implemented in a true benchmark.

I was thinking of all the awesome stuff avx helps like medical imaging, scientific calculation, probability calculation etc. I did not even think of encryption, you are not going to run these awesome tasks on mobile silicon.

You made a very good point!

Pretty much everything related to internet, about 90% of what your phone does, uses encryption.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
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Not sure what you are implying. by "Other phones don't throttle nearly as much."

Do you mean other phone don't throttle as much as the iPhone 6 since that is absurd as in GFXBench (with little CPU load), the flagship models from Samsung and LG already halved their frame rates.

Well I meant the sony, or the HTC models which lose nothing to 20%.

Personally losing less than 20% under sustained load is okay for me. Given the wide variety of configurations and thermal conditions its to be expected (ie the S800 seems to vary by +/- 10% depending on which phone it is in). It is throttling, make no mistake, but its not enough to be a real problem.

That said, the A8 (on 20nm) is much better with regards to power than the S800 series.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
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A forum member at B3D has dug up an iOS CPU PassMark chart which indicates that A8X will have three CPU cores! So in comparison to A7, the A8X SoC appears to have 50% more CPU cores and 50% more GPU cores, which would help to explain the 50% difference in transistor count (1 billion extra transistors!).

So I would estimate the Geekbench 3 AArch64 results to be ~ 2000 for single-core and ~ 5400 for multi-core!
 

Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
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A forum member at B3D has dug up an iOS CPU PassMark chart which indicates that A8X will have three CPU cores! So in comparison to A7, the A8X SoC appears to have 50% more CPU cores and 50% more GPU cores, which would help to explain the 50% difference in transistor count (1 billion extra transistors!).

So I would estimate the Geekbench 3 AArch64 results to be ~ 2000 for single-core and ~ 5400 for multi-core!
Are you assuming the +40% CPU perf claim Apple made is single-thread increase alone then?
 

Steelbom

Senior member
Sep 1, 2009
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Heh... tri-core... that's interesting. If you run apps side by side, that may be necessary.
 

asendra

Member
Nov 4, 2012
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iPad 5,4

Memory Mark 2 GB: http://www.iphonebenchmark.net/memmark_chart.html
CPU Mark triplecore: http://www.iphonebenchmark.net/cpumark_chart.html

Click on performance bar on graph to see specs.

I'm skeptical. CPU boost is 100% over A7 and 75% over A8.

CPU score is easily explainable if you consider the 40% increase to mean single core performance, I think. Original Ipad Air score (37k) * 1.4 (40%) ~ 52k. If it scaled perfectly, that would mean a score of 78k for a 3 core cpu. Considering it almost never scales perfectly, a 73k could be posible.
 
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