Apple and x86?

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

You expect 100% working condition on 100% of the systems? Not Dell, nor Sun, Nor HP can do that, let alone Apple.

Of course not, but what are you paying extra for if there's no burn-in at Apple? All it seems you get extra with an Apple PC is OS X, a PPC processor and a fancy case. I just don't think the price they charge is justified.

You said the drive lasted a week. What if it had failed after 30 days? Would you expect 30 days of burn-in at Apple? How long should burn-in be?

Apple is crap. Don't buy it. Sun is crap. Don't buy it. SGI won't be around much longer, don't buy it. HP is switching to Intel crap, don't buy it. Stick with Dell and their 60 days of burn-in time and their pot smoking hippy spokes people. Stick with Intel and their great processor designs. I'll start converting everything to Debian, maybe they can brain wash me into thinking there is only one true path.

 

[Nothinman]

ou said the drive lasted a week. What if it had failed after 30 days? Would you expect 30 days of burn-in at Apple? How long should burn-in be?

Of course 30 days is excessive, but I bet if they would have worked the drive for say 24 hours with bonnie++ it would have died in their warehouse.

Sounds like someone needs a vacation...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

ou said the drive lasted a week. What if it had failed after 30 days? Would you expect 30 days of burn-in at Apple? How long should burn-in be?

Of course 30 days is excessive, but I bet if they would have worked the drive for say 24 hours with bonnie++ it would have died in their warehouse.

Quite possibly. Send them a suggestion, they do listen to their customers after all.

Sounds like someone needs a vacation...

Let the mods decide that.

 

[Nothinman]

Quite possibly. Send them a suggestion, they do listen to their customers after all.

Technically I'm not a customer =)

Let the mods decide that.

I meant a real-life vacation...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Quite possibly. Send them a suggestion, they do listen to their customers after all.

Technically I'm not a customer =)

Have your buddy submit it. I've been very impressed as to how much Apple listens to legitimate criticisms.

Let the mods decide that.

I meant a real-life vacation...

I don't take vacations. When things slow down at work idiots in town decide they want cheaper oil and my work load goes through the roof, well the critical stuff anyways. And everything I do is apparently critical. The best I get is a couple days out of town working somewhere else, or a night at Camelot's.

 

[Nothinman]

Well I hope you get some time at Camelot's soon then =)

 

[chsh1ca]

Ooh, I love PC vs MAC arguments.

What does Apple have going for it?
- A very good operating system.
- Users who will accept a good financial rogering with a smile.

That to me, is it. Their processors are slower, and DDR RAM is almost useless in that their boards support DDR SDRAM, but even the latest G4 Processors only support a 166MHz bus, which means that in a G4 system, you'd need it dual proc, and you would have to have both processors at full memory bandwidth to take advantage of the ram's bandwidth. Luckily Apple is selling their $4000 Systems in Dual 1.42GHz Processor configuration, otherwise you'd be worried that your FOUR $900 2.4GHz P4s from Dell might be a little extravagant for the cost. Yes, those Dells come with 15" Flat Panel displays too.

Apart from their motherboards and processors, nowadays, all the other components are interchangeable anyway. The only thing Apple does well anymore is their software. They should be first and foremost a software company if they want to survive.

Everyone also always talks about Apple vs Dell/MS. Well, if Apple actually did a sensible business thing, they would try and and get HP or another of the giant manufacturers to try and sell an x86 version of OS X for them, they could do what MS is doing. They don't have to be different from MS to beat MS.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: chsh1ca
Ooh, I love PC vs MAC arguments.

MACs have nothing to do with this "debate."

What does Apple have going for it?
- A very good operating system.
- Users who will accept a good financial rogering with a smile.

That to me, is it. Their processors are slower, and DDR RAM is almost useless in that their boards support DDR SDRAM, but even the latest G4 Processors only support a 166MHz bus, which means that in a G4 system, you'd need it dual proc, and you would have to have both processors at full memory bandwidth to take advantage of the ram's bandwidth. Luckily Apple is selling their $4000 Systems in Dual 1.42GHz Processor configuration, otherwise you'd be worried that your FOUR $900 2.4GHz P4s from Dell might be a little extravagant for the cost. Yes, those Dells come with 15" Flat Panel displays too.

Apart from their motherboards and processors, nowadays, all the other components are interchangeable anyway. The only thing Apple does well anymore is their software. They should be first and foremost a software company if they want to survive.

Everyone also always talks about Apple vs Dell/MS. Well, if Apple actually did a sensible business thing, they would try and and get HP or another of the giant manufacturers to try and sell an x86 version of OS X for them, they could do what MS is doing. They don't have to be different from MS to beat MS.

If they released an x86 version out of the blue, they would die. I know most of you would like that, but I think it would be a bad situation.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Well I hope you get some time at Camelot's soon then =)

I'm actually hoping for another trip to SC. I had a great time down there, and everything is slow enough that I had a chance to relax for a minute or two.

People down there didn't really start getting into the office until like 9am! :Q

 

[iam29a]

Apple is a hardware company.

Excuse me, but that's being somewhat short-sided, isn't it? First, they are borrow quite a bit of PC-derived technology so as not to develope their own technology (good for them, its a wiser business position). BUT, they are also a software company. Last time I checked not too many people were running Mandrake Linux or Mircosoft Windows on those i/Power Macs, and I also remember something about Apple developing and publishing several software titles of their own, and even modified an OS to put onto their hardware.

Anyone thinking Apple as only a hardware company is missing a very big point. The profit isn't in the hardware, but the software. What good does it do to make 5-10% margin on a $2K Mac when you can make 40% margin on a $500 piece of software? Its an easier sell, IMHO. Still, this means absolutely NOTHING in what point I was trying to make.

I am not suggesting Apple throw away or abandon its present efforts, but rather to expand on those efforts for the sake of running a business at a greater profit. Its nice for any company to have secondary and tertiary revenue streams, and placing all you eggs in one basket is about the most unwise approach of any mature company. Heck, where would Microsoft be if they ONLY had XP and nothing else?

 

[Nothinman]

People down there didn't really start getting into the office until like 9am!

Heh, I generally start around 9:30 am.

What good does it do to make 5-10% margin on a $2K Mac when you can make 40% margin on a $500 piece of software? Its an easier sell, IMHO. Still, this means absolutely NOTHING in what point I was trying to make.

But what software are they selling for $500 to make those margins?

Heck, where would Microsoft be if they ONLY had XP and nothing else?

Out of legal trouble.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

People down there didn't really start getting into the office until like 9am!

Heh, I generally start around 9:30 am.

:Q

I get up at 5am, get to work at 8am, leave work at 6pm, get home at 8pm.

 

[Nothinman]

I get up at 5am, get to work at 8am, leave work at 6pm, get home at 8pm

And to think I'm pissed because I normally get up at 8:30 and am home by 6:30 heh

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I get up at 5am, get to work at 8am, leave work at 6pm, get home at 8pm

And to think I'm pissed because I normally get up at 8:30 and am home by 6:30 heh

Lazy

 

[Nothinman]

Lazy

Extremely =)

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Haha, yeah, n0c, you definitely need a vacation. Alot of people don't have money to throw around, and it doesn't matter how "superior" anything is, wasting money is just plain stupid. So you're basically either knocking people for being poorer than you, thriftier than you, or both, and both are stupid things to insult.

Not that I wouldn't love an alpha or something, but my rusting $900 car needs body work and a paint job, and I have $1200+ worth of dental work that I need done (and no insurance). I put off buying $40 of ram for months (until I actually *needed* it, basically) because I hate spending money frivolously. Bla bla bla. I'm not making this personal at all, I'm just pointing out some examples that I'm not pulling out of my ass.

And yeah, working long hours blows. I only work 30-35 hours and I feel like the life is being sucked out of me. Getting up at 8am doesn't help.

 

[spyordie007]

I only work 30-35 hours and I feel like the life is being sucked out of me. Getting up at 8am doesn't help.

Damn you are lazy

A normal week for me is 50 hours and I'm up every day at 6am, 8am is what I call sleeping in

I do agree though, there is no reason to not be cost effective wherever possible.

-Spy

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Haha, yeah, n0c, you definitely need a vacation. Alot of people don't have money to throw around, and it doesn't matter how "superior" anything is, wasting money is just plain stupid. So you're basically either knocking people for being poorer than you, thriftier than you, or both, and both are stupid things to insult.

That is not what I am saying at all. I don't understand the point in crapping on something because it is not the way you want it to be. They are more expensive, you get what you pay for. If you do not want to spend the extra money, if you do not need or want the good things that come out of these systems, or if you cannot afford them that is ok with me. But just because it is different and more expensive does not make it a bad decision at all. Maybe I'm an idiot for spending money on things I want or like, but that's me.

Not that I wouldn't love an alpha or something, but my rusting $900 car needs body work and a paint job, and I have $1200+ worth of dental work that I need done (and no insurance). I put off buying $40 of ram for months (until I actually *needed* it, basically) because I hate spending money frivolously. Bla bla bla. I'm not making this personal at all, I'm just pointing out some examples that I'm not pulling out of my ass.

And yeah, working long hours blows. I only work 30-35 hours and I feel like the life is being sucked out of me. Getting up at 8am doesn't help.

30-35 and you feel the life being sucked out of you? Read my hours again, I spend around 65 hours per week getting ready for work, commuting, and working. And I get up at 5am. Except for tomorrow, I got invited to a party!

 

[Idoxash]

n0cmonkey "I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the way x86 machines are a bunch of parts thrown together by someone, much the same way Linux is a bunch of programs thrown together by a group and called a distro. "

--Kick ASS I'm not the only one that feels that way about linux

n0cmonkey "I'm actually hoping for another trip to SC. I had a great time down there, and everything is slow enough that I had a chance to relax for a minute or two."

--SC as in South Carolina? Crazed who would thought ya take a trip to my home state... So where-ya went here er there?

--Idoxash

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Idoxash
n0cmonkey "I wasn't referring to that. I was referring to the way x86 machines are a bunch of parts thrown together by someone, much the same way Linux is a bunch of programs thrown together by a group and called a distro. "

--Kick ASS I'm not the only one that feels that way about linux

Lots of us do, we're called BSD users

n0cmonkey "I'm actually hoping for another trip to SC. I had a great time down there, and everything is slow enough that I had a chance to relax for a minute or two."

--SC as in South Carolina? Crazed who would thought ya take a trip to my home state... So where-ya went here er there?

--Idoxash

Columbia is where I went last time. Nice little area. The No Name Deli rocks!

 

[Nothinman]

They are more expensive, you get what you pay for.

That's my point, I don't think you get much extra for the price. Unless you feel OS X is worth all that extra cash, what are you paying extra for? I really like their notebooks, but again I can get a dell for half the price and it runs just as well.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

They are more expensive, you get what you pay for.

That's my point, I don't think you get much extra for the price. Unless you feel OS X is worth all that extra cash, what are you paying extra for? I really like their notebooks, but again I can get a dell for half the price and it runs just as well.

I can agree with the first part, but not the second. When I bought my iBook the only x86 based notebooks I found that I thought were comparable for my needs were much more expensive.

 

[Idoxash]

I'm very open to computer tech and I like to read and use a lot of differ computers. I'm looking forward to see how this new cpu by IBM will do in Apple computers.

"Columbia is where I went last time. Nice little area. The No Name Deli rocks! "
I only been to Columbia a few times and have not been to that Deli you mention. Besides it's a long trip from where I am "Myrtel Beach" However a few days ago I got back from a week in Ohio vistting with a friend (that was a long drive.)

--Idoxash

 

[Nothinman]

When I bought my iBook the only x86 based notebooks I found that I thought were comparable for my needs were much more expensive.

Well I bought a 1Ghz PIII Dell in Dec of 2001 I believe, but I have no idea any more what was available from Apple then.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Idoxash
I'm very open to computer tech and I like to read and use a lot of differ computers. I'm looking forward to see how this new cpu by IBM will do in Apple computers.

"Columbia is where I went last time. Nice little area. The No Name Deli rocks! "
I only been to Columbia a few times and have not been to that Deli you mention. Besides it's a long trip from where I am "Myrtel Beach" However a few days ago I got back from a week in Ohio vistting with a friend (that was a long drive.)

--Idoxash

Columbia is about 7.5-8 hours from DC. Wasn't too bad of a drive. But OKC is a nasty drive from here, Chicago is too, but not quite as bad.