Apple Announcement Oct 23rd - iPad mini? Live links inside!

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Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
I disagree that it's innovative. All they did was take a desktop concept and put it on a phone. How is that innovative?

I didn't know I could put all sorts of re-sizable widgets on my old desktops or use things like gesture shortcuts that eliminate the need to navigate to apps or even have to launch them in the first place...

By that logic nothing is ever really innovative.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
ZOMG THE HOMESCREEN LOOKS THE SAME!!!
You can take a stock, bought from the store Android phone, go into Google Play, and download widgets, apps or launchers that will completely change your homescreen layout to suit your needs. Some add minor touches like additional gesture support, and some (like TSF Shell) are major overhauls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYzYQ6YtepU&feature=plcp

But the point being, stock iOS is stock iOS. Doesn't matter if you have an iPhone 3GS or an iPhone 5, the software experience will be very similar because Apple's slow iterative updates cater to the lowest common denominator. I guess that's great for people who want legacy device support, but phones from 2012 are completely different beasts than phones from 2009, and I'd rather have my mobile operating system take full advantage of my 2012 hardware.
 
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bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
I didn't know I could put all sorts of re-sizable widgets on my old desktops or use things like gesture shortcuts that eliminate the need to navigate to apps or even have to launch them in the first place...

By that logic nothing is ever really innovative.

You probably just weren't looking for it on your desktop.

But yes, I believe your last sentence is the point. innovation shouldn't be reserved for every little tweak or additional feature. Innovation needs to change things. It needs to move markets. It needs to be important. It needs to affect not only the people using said innovative object, but also those that don't. That's innovation to me. It doesn't have a schedule. It doesn't happen every week, every month, every year or possibly even every five years.

Everything in between is iteration.

I'm not saying Google CAN'T innovate in this market. I'm just saying they haven't. But, I'm also saying that Apple hasn't either in 5 years. Or Microsoft. Or RIM.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
I didn't know I could put all sorts of re-sizable widgets on my old desktops or use things like gesture shortcuts that eliminate the need to navigate to apps or even have to launch them in the first place...

By that logic nothing is ever really innovative.

Not nothing, but you are getting close to the point. If you want to get right down to it, then very little can be properly labelled as 'innovative'. Until the introduction of the CVT, there was little innovation in automotive hardware. What's innovative in your kitchen right now? I mean in the last... 10-15 years people suddenly noticed this thing called ergonomics, but past that, a measuring cup is still a measuring cup.

The iPhone came out in 2007, and you can argue prior art all you like, but the iPhone came out in '07, and changed the landscape. They provided a new and creative way of interacting with small devices, namely through multitouch, and made them more powerful than they had been in the past. Since then... what have we gotten?

You had mentioned before about how being on the bleeding edge of software development Android.. something something... I would argue that that is not innovation, but more simply a rapid release schedule, and refinement as well. As Bearxor showed in his images, the interface of straight Android hasn't really changed a whole lot either, it has just been refined, iterated, and improved.

Re-sizable widgets: What do you think the windowing metaphor is?
Gesture shortcuts: How about mouse gestures from firefox?

You can take a stock, bought from the store Android phone, go into Google Play, and download widgets, apps or launchers that will completely change your homescreen layout to suit your needs. Some add minor touches like additional gesture support, and some (like TSF Shell) are major overhauls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYzYQ6YtepU&feature=plcp

But the point being, stock iOS is stock iOS. Doesn't matter if you have an iPhone 3GS or an iPhone 5, the software experience will be very similar because Apple's slow iterative updates cater to the lowest common denominator. I guess that's great for people who want legacy device support, but phones from 2012 are completely different beasts than phones from 2009, and I'd rather have my mobile operating system take full advantage of my 2012 hardware.

And that's great, no one is saying that it is a bad thing. What it seems that Bearxor and I are saying is that it is NOT innovation. And I am not sure why you brought it up.
 

TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
I didn't know I could put all sorts of re-sizable widgets on my old desktops or use things like gesture shortcuts that eliminate the need to navigate to apps or even have to launch them in the first place...

By that logic nothing is ever really innovative.

Ding ding ding! I'm not saying that's correct, but going by the arguments against the "innovation" of Apple, nothing can be ever really innovative. Everything has been done before in a similiar or completely different context/usage/product. ("The iPhone isn't innovative! They didn't invent rectangles, or cell phones or using your fingers to touch stuff or blah blah blah") and everything is just an improvement and not innovation. Picky picky...
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,158
20
81
Bestbuy mobile sells phones threw carriers.this was brought up about the nexus having low sales and I pointed out that the biggest retail store will not or does not sell the nexus 7.

Go into a best buy and buy one....YOU CANT now take that rumor the way you want to but Intel did the very same thing with amd.

Bottom line is you can't walk into a bestbuy and leave with a nexus 7

Lol, and so what? If Apple did 100% online sales it'd still move 10s of millions of iPads. You blame Apple for Best Buy not carrying the Nexus because of some stupid rumor on a forum posted by someone who sounds idiotic?

You don't need a tablet that does not have cellular connectivity to sell through a carrier. Do you blame low laptop sales on carriers not pushing you to get a laptop? The vast majority of iPad sales are Wifi models. The Nexus 7 is a wifi only model. If Verizon offered a 4G version would sales all of a sudden go through the roof? They would shoot up 20x to rival iPad sales? I doubt it.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
I am quite happy Apple went with a quick refresh on the iPad personally. Getting a refurbished unit for $379 sounds like a damned good deal to me and I get to keep the old connector. I was pretty well convinced that my next tablet would be some sort of Android device but $379 is sounding pretty good right now.
 

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
11,565
203
106
Lol, and so what? If Apple did 100% online sales it'd still move 10s of millions of iPads. You blame Apple for Best Buy not carrying the Nexus because of some stupid rumor on a forum posted by someone who sounds idiotic?

You don't need a tablet that does not have cellular connectivity to sell through a carrier. Do you blame low laptop sales on carriers not pushing you to get a laptop? The vast majority of iPad sales are Wifi models. The Nexus 7 is a wifi only model. If Verizon offered a 4G version would sales all of a sudden go through the roof? They would shoot up 20x to rival iPad sales? I doubt it.

Well, clearly Best Buy is the linchpin upon which tablet success depends.
 

badboyeee

Senior member
Nov 12, 2001
664
0
0
I am quite happy Apple went with a quick refresh on the iPad personally. Getting a refurbished unit for $379 sounds like a damned good deal to me and I get to keep the old connector. I was pretty well convinced that my next tablet would be some sort of Android device but $379 is sounding pretty good right now.

My ipad depreciated $150 in value in just 6 months.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
My ipad depreciated $150 in value in just 6 months.

Yeah, I understand and that does stink if you are into upgrading with every cycle. I am still on a first generation iPad and tend to hold onto my devices for awhile though (still using my second gen Ipod Touch daily) so I don't worry too much about the used value. I imagine the third gen iPad is still going to be a viable device for quite some time.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
My ipad depreciated $150 in value in just 6 months.

If you are buying tech as an investment you are doing it wrong. Apple still has the best resale in the business. You should still be happy that you can flip it for $300+ and upgrade for a minimal amount of money. There isn't another tech brand out there that has the same fortune as Apple. I actually see the 3rd gen holding decent value for a while due to the "old style" connector still being present and people who have docks/chargers/ect will still be interested in it. The new one is a very, very minimal refresh. Better face time camera and better, yet hard to appreciate processor updates (at this time).
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,460
774
126
You can take a stock, bought from the store Android phone, go into Google Play, and download widgets, apps or launchers that will completely change your homescreen layout to suit your needs. Some add minor touches like additional gesture support, and some (like TSF Shell) are major overhauls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYzYQ6YtepU&feature=plcp

But the point being, stock iOS is stock iOS. Doesn't matter if you have an iPhone 3GS or an iPhone 5, the software experience will be very similar because Apple's slow iterative updates cater to the lowest common denominator. I guess that's great for people who want legacy device support, but phones from 2012 are completely different beasts than phones from 2009, and I'd rather have my mobile operating system take full advantage of my 2012 hardware.

Bold part's incredibly ironic seeing how iOS takes MUCH better advantage of hardware than Android does. If the bold is how you really feel you'd stay far far away from Android and go with WP or iOS.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,838
5,456
136
I think the Mini is going to flop. It's one of those products where the better product is so much better it's worth paying extra; and if the iPad is too much, the below cost Android tablets are a better choice.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Bold part's incredibly ironic seeing how iOS takes MUCH better advantage of hardware than Android does.
Yes, displaying icons on a grid is incredibly taxing, tell us more.

If your argument is that iOS is optimized better for the hardware, you're absolutely correct. That's how a 3 year old phone can run iOS 6. For that very same reason, you can't say iOS 6 really takes advantage of the horsepower in an iPhone 5.

If you like icons on a grid with nothing else, iOS is the best show in town.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
I think the Mini is going to flop. It's one of those products where the better product is so much better it's worth paying extra; and if the iPad is too much, the below cost Android tablets are a better choice.
It's not going to flop, Apple has a fan base and they are rabid for product.

It won't be a blockbuster out of the gate because of display supply issues. Apple will get about 6 million units out to consumers worldwide by the end of the year, but they could easily sell more if their suppliers could produce enough displays.

6 million would give the iPad Mini about 15% of the 7" tablet market for 2012.
 
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grkM3

Golden Member
Jul 29, 2011
1,407
0
0
Lol, and so what? If Apple did 100% online sales it'd still move 10s of millions of iPads. You blame Apple for Best Buy not carrying the Nexus because of some stupid rumor on a forum posted by someone who sounds idiotic?

You don't need a tablet that does not have cellular connectivity to sell through a carrier. Do you blame low laptop sales on carriers not pushing you to get a laptop? The vast majority of iPad sales are Wifi models. The Nexus 7 is a wifi only model. If Verizon offered a 4G version would sales all of a sudden go through the roof? They would shoot up 20x to rival iPad sales? I doubt it.

you cleary missed the point and Im not even going to attempt to explain it to you.

Hint bestbuy mobile is not bestbuy,they sell what the carriers sell,bestbuy sells what ever it wants and yes if verizon had a nexus with 4g bestbuy mobile would have to carry it.

what you seem to keep over looking is that bestbuy choosed to never even have the device in its stores or on there site,witch hurts sales to your post about low nexus sales and me telling you the biggest electronics brick and motor store dont sell it.


GET IT?
 
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MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
Yes, displaying icons on a grid is incredibly taxing, tell us more.

If your argument is that iOS is optimized better for the hardware, you're absolutely correct. That's how a 3 year old phone can run iOS 6. For that very same reason, you can't say iOS 6 really takes advantage of the horsepower in an iPhone 5.

If you like icons on a grid with nothing else, iOS is the best show in town.

The 5 does take advantage of the new hardware. Check out the vids of the 5 vs gs3. The gs3 loses in almost everything.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,460
774
126
Yes, displaying icons on a grid is incredibly taxing, tell us more.

If your argument is that iOS is optimized better for the hardware, you're absolutely correct. That's how a 3 year old phone can run iOS 6. For that very same reason, you can't say iOS 6 really takes advantage of the horsepower in an iPhone 5.

If you like icons on a grid with nothing else, iOS is the best show in town.

It makes better use of the hardware, you said "full advantage of my 2012 hardware" yet Android doesn't even have full GPU acceleration. We can argue back and forth all day about which OS is superior. But iOS takes advantage of the hardware far better than Android. I don't see how that's even debatable.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
you cleary missed the point and Im not even going to attempt to explain it to you.

Hint bestbuy mobile is not bestbuy,they sell what the carriers sell,bestbuy sells what ever it wants and yes if verizon had a nexus with 4g bestbuy mobile would have to carry it.

what you seem to keep over looking is that bestbuy choosed to never even have the device in its stores or on there site,witch hurts sales to your post about low nexus sales and me telling you the biggest electronics brick and motor store dont sell it.


GET IT?

Did Walmart, Target, Costco, Sam's Club, Meier's, Big Lots, Sears, Staples, Office Depot & OfficeMax all decide not to sell it as well, or did Google not offer it to them?

The original Nexus 1 (and I think the Nexus S as well) were both online exclusives. The Galaxy Nexus is the first Nexus device that I know of that has been available through the carriers.

What are the latest figures on sales of the Nexus 7? Double them, that would be the optimistic effect of Best Buy on Nexus 7 sales.*


*Best Buy sells about as many iPads & iPhones as Apple does through their stores (online & retail)
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
you cleary missed the point and Im not even going to attempt to explain it to you.

Hint bestbuy mobile is not bestbuy,they sell what the carriers sell,bestbuy sells what ever it wants and yes if verizon had a nexus with 4g bestbuy mobile would have to carry it.

what you seem to keep over looking is that bestbuy choosed to never even have the device in its stores or on there site,witch hurts sales to your post about low nexus sales and me telling you the biggest electronics brick and motor store dont sell it.


GET IT?

I have no problem with what you're saying. If you're saying that a B&M retailer not carrying the Nexus 7 is dramatically prohibiting sales, that's fine. That's your opinion and your entitled to it.

What I took issue with was the comment that Apple bitched and moaned to BB and threatened to pull all of their products and that's WHY BB isn't selling the Nexus 7. It's also something you had absolutely no evidence for yet you were throwing it around like it was fact.

Fact: BestBuy doesn't sell the Nexus 7
Rumor: BestBuy doesn't sell the Nexus 7 because Apple bitched and moaned about the possibility of them carrying it
 

Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
I think the Mini is going to flop. It's one of those products where the better product is so much better it's worth paying extra; and if the iPad is too much, the below cost Android tablets are a better choice.

Nah, not a total flop. The one handed aspect of use is absolutely critical. Of course, with these new releases, Apple will be cannibalizing its own devices to a certain extent, so your prediction is not completely wrong. I doubt I'll be buying a mini without unloading my Ipad 3. Frankly, the ipad 3 is so good that I would only resell it if I try the mini and it turns out to be much more physically comfortable.

The ipad 3 screen is just unreal, I have no battery issues, and Verizon LTE is baller. Its sole issue is that its a tricky balancing act to use it with one hand.
 
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