Apple are ditching Imagination GPU, designing their own

[NTMBK]

https://www.imgtec.com/news/press-release/discussions-with-apple-regarding-license-agreement/

How long can Imagination survive without their one big customer?

 

[ZippZ]

Another question is are they licensing patents from AMD or Nvidia?

 

[nvgpu]

http://www.realworldtech.com/apple-custom-gpu/

David Kanter already wrote about Apple's custom GPU, no surprises that Apple would dump any supplier once their time is up.

Imagination is in a weak position and they'll lose if they try to assert anything against Apple.

 

[tamz_msc]

All this is drama before the inevitable - Apple may end up buying Imagination.

 

[NTMBK]

All this is drama before the inevitable - Apple may end up buying Imagination.

Why buy a dysfunctional company with a lot of baggage when you already have your own team?

 

[Ancalagon44]

Oh man, poor Imagination! About to lose their largest customer. They could probably see the writing on the wall though.

 

[tamz_msc]

Why buy a dysfunctional company with a lot of baggage when you already have your own team?

They are already operating with losses, and if they think Apple may infringe on their IP, then they are in no position to litigate. Apple can probably absorb them and overnight Imagination engineers become Apple engineers. It's a win-win for both.

Though according to Wikipedia, Intel holds some shares so not sure how this will pan out.

 

[NTMBK]

They are already operating with losses, and if they think Apple may infringe on their IP, then they are in no position to litigate. Apple can probably absorb them and overnight Imagination engineers become Apple engineers. It's a win-win for both.

Though according to Wikipedia, Intel holds some shares so not sure how this will pan out.

Apple have already been poaching engineers from Imagination for a while, they don't need to buy the company to do that. Buying the company nets them the engineers that they didn't feel were worth poaching, plus a bunch of management, existing product pipeline which needs to be killed, and a CPU line they need to either spin off or kill. Total mess.

 

[tamz_msc]

Apple have already been poaching engineers from Imagination for a while, they don't need to buy the company to do that. Buying the company nets them the engineers that they didn't feel were worth poaching, plus a bunch of management, existing product pipeline which needs to be killed, and a CPU line they need to either spin off or kill. Total mess.

I'm not aware of the happenings in this particular case, but if what you say is true then yeah, its the end of the line for Imagination I suppose.

 

[NTMBK]

I'm not aware of the happenings in this particular case, but if what you say is true then yeah, its the end of the line for Imagination I suppose.

Ah fair enough, I'm mostly going off rumours like this: http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...technologies-talent-hiring-key-personnel-away

 

[arandomguy]

There were reports that Apple was already in talks to buy Imagination early last year which ended up falling apart. Stock value rose quite a bit with those rumors and continued even after talks were broken off, now they are back down to pre-rumor levels.

Though according to Wikipedia, Intel holds some shares so not sure how this will pan out.

Is that up to date? https://www.theguardian.com/busines...nologies-slips-as-intel-sells-remaining-stake

 

[Rayniac]

Apple and imagination never fit together anyway.

 

[ZGR]

Ars:
https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/04/apple-ditches-imagination-technologies-shares-collapse/


Will be interesting to follow.

 

[Arachnotronic]

https://www.imgtec.com/news/press-release/discussions-with-apple-regarding-license-agreement/

How long can Imagination survive without their one big customer?

They can't survive for very long once the Apple revenue stream dies out.

This is an extinction level event for ImgTec if they can't find a way to get some revenues from Apple going forward.

 

[Yakk]

Looks like a business move by Apple to buy imagination IPs on the cheap after they close. Otherwise it's a real patent minefield for them to design a gpu from the ground up, just ask Intel.

AMD sold a lot (most, all?) of their arm patents to Qualcomm, and I doubt Apple would risk working with nvidia again on anything long term.

 

[senseamp]

I suspect that Apple is gearing up to buy Imagination. Remember how they screwed PA Semi by switching from PowerPC to x86 only to buy them out on the cheap to build iPhone chips. Imagination is at $300M, between acquihiring a complete GPU team and IP protection, that is a good deal for Apple.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I suspect that Apple is gearing up to buy Imagination. Remember how they screwed PA Semi by switching from PowerPC to x86 only to buy them out on the cheap to build iPhone chips. Imagination is at $300M, between acquihiring a complete GPU team and IP protection, that is a good deal for Apple.

Nope.

 

[Mopetar]

Funny enough, Apple has owned a stake in the company for some time, and at one point there were rumors of Apple taking over the company, but those either fell through or didn't go anywhere. According to this trading site, Apple owns slightly more than 8% of Imagination's stock. Perhaps some of the price collapse is due to Apple selling off their shares as I imagine they would want to divest themselves at some point. Intel also previously owned a large chunk of the company, but I think they sold off all of their remaining shares a few years back. They seem like a more likely candidate for buying up the company on the cheap since they're going to see more competition from AMD in the APU market and need to shore up their graphics performance.

I can't imagine Apple being allowed to buy the company after this announcement as regulators would throw the book at them.

 

[Headfoot]

Funny enough, Apple has owned a stake in the company for some time, and at one point there were rumors of Apple taking over the company, but those either fell through or didn't go anywhere. According to this trading site, Apple owns slightly more than 8% of Imagination's stock. Perhaps some of the price collapse is due to Apple selling off their shares as I imagine they would want to divest themselves at some point. Intel also previously owned a large chunk of the company, but I think they sold off all of their remaining shares a few years back. They seem like a more likely candidate for buying up the company on the cheap since they're going to see more competition from AMD in the APU market and need to shore up their graphics performance.

I can't imagine Apple being allowed to buy the company after this announcement as regulators would throw the book at them.

I very much doubt that. Apple wouldn't have much issue buying Imagination from US regulators, there are plenty of players in the fabless semi world

 

[Mopetar]

I very much doubt that. Apple wouldn't have much issue buying Imagination from US regulators, there are plenty of players in the fabless semi world

The problem is buying them after making this announcement which tanked the stock. There would be ample evidence to show that there were previous talks of an acquisition that fell through so it wouldn't be difficult to make a case that Apple intentionally did this to drop the stock price and lower their cost of a takeover. Also, Imagination is a European company and they're known for being even tougher on these kinds of things.

 

[Yakk]

The problem is buying them after making this announcement which tanked the stock. There would be ample evidence to show that there were previous talks of an acquisition that fell through so it wouldn't be difficult to make a case that Apple intentionally did this to drop the stock price and lower their cost of a takeover. Also, Imagination is a European company and they're known for being even tougher on these kinds of things.

The fact their stock price tanked on this announcement has more to do with Imagination's lack of other customers. If they had a better balanced list of customers their stock price may still have dropped, but not to this extent.

For example; when Apple dumped nvidia, nvidia's stock price took a small hit, but recovered as nvidia has a better balanced product portfolio. Should Apple have decided to buy nvidia outright following this questions might have popped up, but Apple actions wouldn't have affected anything.

 

[Arachnotronic]

The fact their stock price tanked on this announcement has more to do with Imagination's lack of other customers. If they had a better balanced list of customers their stock price may still have dropped, but not to this extent..

Hard to get much beyond Apple with ARM Mali growing in popularity in non-Apple/non-Qualcomm SoCs, and Qualcomm using its own Adreno tech for Snapdragon (the most popular mobile SoCs).

 

[Arachnotronic]

Why buy a dysfunctional company with a lot of baggage when you already have your own team?

And now Apple set up shop pretty much next door to ImgTec, they'll poach the best and the brightest for sure.

 

[senseamp]

I don't think Imagination has the money to sue Apple directly. But they don't need to. All they need to do is convince Apple and the rest of the industry that they can create a multi-billion dollar legal risk, including discovery and dragging engineers from their desks to court, and that risk is best managed by buying them out for a few hundred million. The best way for Imagination to do that is to threaten to sell their patents to non-practicing entities (patent trolls) like Interdigital or Rambus, or to shed engineering and become a patent troll themselves. When Imagination bought MIPS, they paid $60M for the business, but an industry consortium paid $300M+, which is about what Imagination Tech's market cap is now, for MIPS patents, precisely to avoid it falling into the wrong hands. I am not saying Imagination is going to make a massive comeback, but they have some potent IP cards left to play to get a good exit deal.

 

[Bacon1]

Anandtech wrote an article about it here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11243/apple-developing-custom-gpu-dropping-imagination