Question Apple getting serious about gaming with Metal 3

Jul 27, 2020
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To celebrate this Metal 3 API milestone, Apple confirmed that popular and processing-intensive games Resident Evil Village and No Man's Sky will come to macOS "later this year."

I knew those GPU cores wouldn't just sit idle. Not sure if Metal 3 is meant solely for M2 or if it supports the M1 series too. Clarification from Apple would have been nice.

I suppose later this year means M2 MBP 16 will be unveiled at that point too.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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LOL at they want AAA gaming back. Hopefully they will fully commit to porting games for real. I don't keep up with Apple, but when was the last time they had cool exclusive games, the 90s? I remember Bungie making good games for them, until they did Apple a bamboozle and switched to Xbox for Halo.

I always think of the parody ad from back in the day, when someone says Apple and gaming.

 
Reactions: GodisanAtheist
Jul 27, 2020
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I don't keep up with Apple, but when was the last time they had cool exclusive games, the 90s?
Remember when Steve Jobs brought John Carmack to show off Doom 3 running on Apple hardware?

Here's the benchmark: https://www.macworld.com/article/174720/doom3-7.html

Later, Carmack bemoaned that Jobs doesn't give a damn about games. With Jobs out of the way, games can finally be a first class citizen on Apple hardware.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,980
126
Apple will never be a gaming platform because they don't give a crap about backwards compatibility.

6502: gone.
68K: gone.
PPC: gone.
Intel: basically gone, only a matter of time before they drop emulation like they did to the two above.
32 bit: gone.
OGL: basically gone.
Unsigned apps: basically gone.

Each decision caused hundreds of games to permanently stop working, and Apple has shown they'll continue making breaking changes whenever they feel like it.

In contrast where I can still run games from 1999 like Descent 3 and Quake 3 natively on the latest versions of Windows.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,065
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Apple/Mac have completely ceded the gaming market to Windows/PCs and they're never getting more than a blip back.

Look how entrenched Steam is vs Epic and that's on the same relatively open platform.

MS is making huge moves picking up gaming studios.

What chance in hell do games have coming out on a platform that is basically devoid of all PC gamers (and doesn't even have the BYOPC community to prop it up), walled garden, no existing library, and no real consumer base either?
 
Jul 27, 2020
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There is a future possibility of an anemic $1000 and a Pro $2000 Apple console. If they project 10 million sales for the former and 2 million for the latter, it should be profitable enough for them to pursue it.
 

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
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Save for a few random ports, gaming on Mac will be an extension of the iOS ecosystem. With Apple still pushing the AppleTV, which, on it's next iteration, will likely have a SoC in it that has more performance than the PS4 and XBoxOne (and switch), which will also share a common programming and hardware platform with iPad and the entire Mac line, there will certainly be enough critical mass for that to progress to a decent ecosystem for gaming. Apple continues to gain market share, and with that will come development interest and money. Now, we just have to watch and wait.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,016
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LOL at they want AAA gaming back. Hopefully they will fully commit to porting games for real. I don't keep up with Apple, but when was the last time they had cool exclusive games, the 90s? I remember Bungie making good games for them, until they did Apple a bamboozle and switched to Xbox for Halo.

I think Microsoft bought Bungie because they wanted (or maybe even needed) an exclusive title for their new system. The Marathon series that Bungie had made prior to Halo were pretty good and Halo itself looked impressive, which is probably why MS picked them up.

Apple's biggest issue with gaming is getting anyone to spend the time optimizing for Metal when they're already dealing with DX12, Vulkan, and whatever consoles might be using.

Having something like this will at least allow games to run smoother in their unoptimized state.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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Considering that the AR goggles from Apple will have to be fed with software one of main key aspects of it will be of course gaming.

Don't underestimate Apple's ambitions. I would not be surprised to see even the "craziest", or rather... unthinkable currently initiatives.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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I think Microsoft bought Bungie because they wanted (or maybe even needed) an exclusive title for their new system. The Marathon series that Bungie had made prior to Halo were pretty good and Halo itself looked impressive, which is probably why MS picked them up.

Apple's biggest issue with gaming is getting anyone to spend the time optimizing for Metal when they're already dealing with DX12, Vulkan, and whatever consoles might be using.

Having something like this will at least allow games to run smoother in their unoptimized state.

The story of Bungie being purchased is an interesting one. I knew some people who worked at Bungie at the time.

Long story short, when Myth II came out it had a horrible Windows bug that could result in deleting most of the contents of the users HD. Bungie had to recall all the windows copies that resulted in costing Bungie almost $1M, which was a huge amount for such a small company. This gave MS the opening to swoop in and buy them, specifically for Halo. The rights to Oni and Myth were transferred to Take-Two, as MS had no interest in them. The rights to Marathon were retained, probably because Halo borrowed from it pretty heavily.

As part of the deal, MS required Bungie to have Halo completely finished in time for the launch of the XBox. This tight deadline really hurt the game. As anybody that has played it knows, the first half of the game has these really pretty, large, outdoor areas. But the second half of the game is largely filled with copy and pasted corridors, and large chunks of the original story had to be cut out. Also, as the Windows and Mac versions were the original versions, they were also released along side the XBox version.
 

Frenetic Pony

Senior member
May 1, 2012
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Considering that the AR goggles from Apple will have to be fed with software one of main key aspects of it will be of course gaming.

Don't underestimate Apple's ambitions. I would not be surprised to see even the "craziest", or rather... unthinkable currently initiatives.

The VR project seems the most likely explanation for me as the genesis of this project. The game support was probably from people responsible for creating Metal pushing for more to get done with it.

I get the impression that these silicon valley CEO types are totally unaware of gaming as even a thing though. It's all about productivity, that's what gives them dopamine so it should be what gives everyone else dopamine. Witness Mark Zuckerberg's vision of XR being simulating an office, because of course given infinite possibilities that's the first and most important place anyone would think of simulating.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
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The game market isn't on Mac, the game developers aren't on Mac, it isn't happening. You can't just put out a slightly updated API and some more overpriced hardware and suddenly have an ecosystem sprout up.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
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The VR project seems the most likely explanation for me as the genesis of this project. The game support was probably from people responsible for creating Metal pushing for more to get done with it.

I get the impression that these silicon valley CEO types are totally unaware of gaming as even a thing though. It's all about productivity, that's what gives them dopamine so it should be what gives everyone else dopamine. Witness Mark Zuckerberg's vision of XR being simulating an office, because of course given infinite possibilities that's the first and most important place anyone would think of simulating.

-VR hasn't taken off in the substantially larger PC market for games or much else... because there are fundamental issues with the tech that sprinkling Jobs mummy dust on won't magically fix.

All the problems that have always been there with VR: bulky headset, motion sickness, needing physical space, etc cannot be solved by Apple.

Agreed on SV CEOs being an out of touch bunch of nutter butters if the first thing they think of after VR is "office". Problem is VR doesn't really work for or have broad appeal in gaming... So where else is the tech going to go?
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
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The game market isn't on Mac, the game developers aren't on Mac, it isn't happening. You can't just put out a slightly updated API and some more overpriced hardware and suddenly have an ecosystem sprout up.

New M1 Macs can run iOS games. And iOS is one of the largest gaming platforms on the planet. Sure its not console gaming, or PC gaming. But its still gaming, even if you or I don't spend our time gaming there. And as such, MANY game developers are already in the Apple ecosystem.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,016
6,468
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The game market isn't on Mac, the game developers aren't on Mac, it isn't happening. You can't just put out a slightly updated API and some more overpriced hardware and suddenly have an ecosystem sprout up.

Frankly I'd rather see them work on developing an ecosystem by releasing stuff like this and supporting developers instead of the usual approach that companies use where they just buy up exclusivity rights and annoy everyone else that doesn't want to buy their hardware or use their game store.

Apple doesn't need to be the best. Good enough will be plenty for their users who don't want to jump through the hoops of using Parallels or something just to be able to run a game.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Surely if Apple was getting serious about gaming they'd drop Metal for Vulkan.
Yep. Apple wants to have total control over their entire software stack. Not an entirely bad idea - but very bad when it comes to game development. If M series desktop/laptop Macs doubled their market share over the next couple of years, some of the top game makers would take advantage of that - so long as Apple would show some buy in. Poor odds on that I’d guess. Apple and it’s developers do a huge amount business with games, just not from AAA development firms.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,765
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The game market isn't on Mac, the game developers aren't on Mac, it isn't happening. You can't just put out a slightly updated API and some more overpriced hardware and suddenly have an ecosystem sprout up.
There is 1 bln iPhones, active.

The gaming is on the iPhones, and therefore - its also on the Mac.

Just because we live in our bubble doesn't mean there are no other bubbles.
 

Frenetic Pony

Senior member
May 1, 2012
218
179
116
-VR hasn't taken off in the substantially larger PC market for games or much else... because there are fundamental issues with the tech that sprinkling Jobs mummy dust on won't magically fix.

All the problems that have always been there with VR: bulky headset, motion sickness, needing physical space, etc cannot be solved by Apple.

Agreed on SV CEOs being an out of touch bunch of nutter butters if the first thing they think of after VR is "office". Problem is VR doesn't really work for or have broad appeal in gaming... So where else is the tech going to go?

Oh I'd very much disagree, I think Apple can solve a lot of those problems. The world's top hardware designer doing a new project isn't going to come up with an "also ran" project. Not that I expect it to be an "iphone" like moment, there's stuff like your arm going through solid objects and your inner ear not experiencing the acceleration you're seeing, a thousand other problems to solve. But they'll do quite well.

The problem appears to be their general unawareness that a ton of people would be willing to spend a ton of money on gaming for those problems being solved. Ohwell, maybe they'll be able to adapt fast after they see sales.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
-VR hasn't taken off in the substantially larger PC market for games or much else... because there are fundamental issues with the tech that sprinkling Jobs mummy dust on won't magically fix.

All the problems that have always been there with VR: bulky headset, motion sickness, needing physical space, etc cannot be solved by Apple.

Agreed on SV CEOs being an out of touch bunch of nutter butters if the first thing they think of after VR is "office". Problem is VR doesn't really work for or have broad appeal in gaming... So where else is the tech going to go?
The goggles are for AR not VR, AR has huge potential, it's likely to be completely revolutionary in fact. Not for gaming but for general life.
 

soresu

Platinum Member
Dec 19, 2014
2,969
2,200
136
Apple/Mac have completely ceded the gaming market to Windows/PCs and they're never getting more than a blip back.

Look how entrenched Steam is vs Epic and that's on the same relatively open platform.

MS is making huge moves picking up gaming studios.

What chance in hell do games have coming out on a platform that is basically devoid of all PC gamers (and doesn't even have the BYOPC community to prop it up), walled garden, no existing library, and no real consumer base either?
Perhaps they want to buy EA? 😱
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,578
2,913
136
Arent they going to need to build their own version of directX? Could they license that from MS? I dont see devs wanting to fragment the API market anymore than they already have.
 
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