Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[A///]

Apple provides security and browser updates for 2 years after macOS feature updates stop. So, there is a minimum support period of seven years before the Macs are at risk in terms of security, but sometimes it is longer.

In this case nearly a decade. That doesn't change what I said. Apple would prefer you to not keep your phone or Apple device for a long time. Don't mix them offering long support with them wanting to keep oyur device longer.

 

[Heartbreaker]

In this case nearly a decade. That doesn't change what I said. Apple would prefer you to not keep your phone or Apple device for a long time. Don't mix them offering long support with them wanting to keep oyur device longer.

For things like phones or tablets, Apple support tends to be MUCH better than for Android devices. Samsung NEVER provided an OS update for my Galaxy Pro tablet. It was stuck on Kit Kat forever.

 

[A///]

For things like phones or tablets, Apple support tends to be MUCH better than for Android devices. Samsung NEVER provided an OS update for my Galaxy Pro tablet. It was stuck on Kit Kat forever.

Yep a few years ago I briefly used android and thought I loved it until I ran into long term experience issues. I quickly repented to steve jobs and went back to my iphone. They're not bad phones, but it's like buying a good generic. Seems great until you really examine it and realize it's not that good. The one benefit I saw in my brief droid use was the ability to side load a secondary store and run a custom app to watch youtube without ads and be able to install an active ad blocker that worked whereas the store version was gimp masked.

 

[eek2121]

Yep a few years ago I briefly used android and thought I loved it until I ran into long term experience issues. I quickly repented to steve jobs and went back to my iphone. They're not bad phones, but it's like buying a good generic. Seems great until you really examine it and realize it's not that good. The one benefit I saw in my brief droid use was the ability to side load a secondary store and run a custom app to watch youtube without ads and be able to install an active ad blocker that worked whereas the store version was gimp masked.

I used to be a die hard Android guy. The lack of updates, shovelware, and lack of security and privacy killed it for me.

 

[A///]

I used to be a die hard Android guy. The lack of updates, shovelware, and lack of security and privacy killed it for me.

For me my phone history is very basic. I went from the motorola bricks to the their then tracfone flip to the 850 and stuck with Blackberry until the first iphone came out and got with that. With the exception of a few months on android I've been with Apple longer than I have another brand. My brief love affair with droid was over how customizable it was but you quickly find yourself bored with that ability and find yourself going back to default soon after because otherwise there was a list of cons to the platform as you point out, but also the lack of quality apps. Apple's standards are higher and thus the quality of even a random app is better.

 

[Mopetar]

They did, but a security update isn't the same as bringing new features and abilities like you would an os upgrade. Microsoft still pushes msrts to outdated unsupported system.

How many new features does an operating system need these days? I'll gladly take security support, but there's been very little that Apple has done with Mac OS that I would consider a must have feature and I've been running OS X since the PowerPC days.

The whole debacle with Microsoft wanting people to move to Windows 11 and trying to shove that on anyone with Windows 10 like some kind of drug pusher / used car salesman hybrid shows that for a lot of people the updates are undesirable and unwanted.

I'd be far happier if they spent 2 years adding no new features but instead improving the performance and reliability of the operating system.

 

[Doug S]

In this case nearly a decade. That doesn't change what I said. Apple would prefer you to not keep your phone or Apple device for a long time. Don't mix them offering long support with them wanting to keep oyur device longer.

If Apple didn't want people to keep using iPhones longer they wouldn't fix security issues in a 9 1/2 year old model.

I guess you have missed how Tim Cook keeps talking about installed base of devices these days. That's how you build service revenue. I won't be using my iPhone 14 Pro Max nine years from now, but having a long service life makes it worth more as a trade in (decreasing my TCO) and leads to second, third even fourth owners after it leaves my hands. That increases Apple's installed base beyond just those people who can afford a $1000 phone.

Those subsequent owners of my phone may result in less services revenue to Apple versus a first owner but it is still adding to the bottom line. More importantly having them in the Apple ecosystem means as their economic situation improves maybe a fourth owner becomes a third owner next time around, and a third owner a second, and a second owner buys their first new one. This is how Apple can play in the "low end" market where Android dominates, without offering $100 phones.

 

[A///]

If Apple didn't want people to keep using iPhones longer they wouldn't fix security issues in a 9 1/2 year old model.

Microsoft didn't want to issue service patches or updates to XP but they still did. The CVE the other user was referring to is a very serious issue involving the render engine of Safari allowing code execution unbeknownst to the user.

I guess you have missed how Tim Cook keeps talking about installed base of devices these days. That's how you build service revenue. I won't be using my iPhone 14 Pro Max nine years from now, but having a long service life makes it worth more as a trade in (decreasing my TCO) and leads to second, third even fourth owners after it leaves my hands. That increases Apple's installed base beyond just those people who can afford a $1000 phone.

If the phone enters the hands of a fourth user it doesn't help them much if major updates to the phone ended a while back, now does it? The phone's usefulness rapidly goes down as more and more apps become incompatible with the standing OS version on the phone. You may have also missed the greater picture here in which an iPhone does not cost a base of $1000. Have you been asleep for the past seven to eight years? The cheapest new iPhone can be had for $430 today.

You selling your crusty phone in 5 years, 7 years, or 9 years helps no one. Unless you sell it for less than $100 you're doing a great disservice by ripping someone off with a phone that no longer gets updates except the rare security update that can't be ignore. Instead they can a few hundred and get a terrific new phone. Even a higher end refurbished phone is a better deal.

Your install base argument has some basis to it but you forget these services may not be viable on these very old phones you generously wish to sell onto unassuming customers.

Those subsequent owners of my phone may result in less services revenue to Apple versus a first owner but it is still adding to the bottom line. More importantly having them in the Apple ecosystem means as their economic situation improves maybe a fourth owner becomes a third owner next time around, and a third owner a second, and a second owner buys their first new one. This is how Apple can play in the "low end" market where Android dominates, without offering $100 phones.

A 5S used now goes for $35-45. Someone has to be financially incompetent to buy that phone and use it when they can spend a few hundred to get an SE, or even less for a certified refurbished phone from Apple that's still relevant. The iPhone X is due to get its support dropped soon. 2 years of security updates won't do much to keep the phone relevant and is currently overpriced on the used market.

 

[A///]

How many new features does an operating system need these days? I'll gladly take security support, but there's been very little that Apple has done with Mac OS that I would consider a must have feature and I've been running OS X since the PowerPC days.

The whole debacle with Microsoft wanting people to move to Windows 11 and trying to shove that on anyone with Windows 10 like some kind of drug pusher / used car salesman hybrid shows that for a lot of people the updates are undesirable and unwanted.

I'd be far happier if they spent 2 years adding no new features but instead improving the performance and reliability of the operating system.

It depends on what is a feature and what was put in to make things fancy. If the features improve the user experience or aid the user then it's a good decent feature to have.

You seem to not keep up with Microsoft news. Microsoft abandoned the rapid feature output and opted for stability a while back. You're in luck. Windows 12 is due to come out end of next year.

From what I understand Microsoft's push towards 11 is due to security of devices and the slow removal of legacy code that plagues their operating system code. Tools such as Rufus don't help as they allow older unsupported systems to install Windows 11. Microsoft recently explained why W11 lacks some features and is slowly getting them back. The short answer is not due to user demand, but because those features were being rewritten.

 

[Ajay]

2 years of security updates won't do much to keep the phone relevant and is currently overpriced on the used market.

Nothing is 'overpriced' in a used market. It's price is what the market will bear. That may not be a price that you are willing to spend - but someone is buy at those prices.

 

[A///]

Nothing is 'overpriced' in a used market. It's price is what the market will bear. That may not be a price that you are willing to spend - but someone is buy at those prices.

It's a nearly six year old phone that isn't viable after the next 2 years still going for $200 on the used market. You think that's fine, I think it's a waste of money.

 

[Ajay]

It's a nearly six year old phone that isn't viable after the next 2 years still going for $200 on the used market. You think that's fine, I think it's a waste of money.

I didn't say I think that is fine. I'm saying that a large number people do consider it to be a fair enough price to justify their purchase. Nothing personal man.

 

[A///]

I didn't say I think that is fine. I'm saying that a large number people do consider it to be a fair enough price to justify their purchase. Nothing personal man.

Not taking it personally mate. Your opinion is fine, but so is mine. That's what makes the world great. I don't like seeing people waste their money only to get a couple years of viable use when a newer or refurbished phone would be better. Besides someone wanting a used iPhone could do a lot better than the X.

 

[Doug S]

Microsoft didn't want to issue service patches or updates to XP but they still did. The CVE the other user was referring to is a very serious issue involving the render engine of Safari allowing code execution unbeknownst to the user.

If the phone enters the hands of a fourth user it doesn't help them much if major updates to the phone ended a while back, now does it? The phone's usefulness rapidly goes down as more and more apps become incompatible with the standing OS version on the phone. You may have also missed the greater picture here in which an iPhone does not cost a base of $1000. Have you been asleep for the past seven to eight years? The cheapest new iPhone can be had for $430 today.

You selling your crusty phone in 5 years, 7 years, or 9 years helps no one. Unless you sell it for less than $100 you're doing a great disservice by ripping someone off with a phone that no longer gets updates except the rare security update that can't be ignore. Instead they can a few hundred and get a terrific new phone. Even a higher end refurbished phone is a better deal.

Your install base argument has some basis to it but you forget these services may not be viable on these very old phones you generously wish to sell onto unassuming customers.

A 5S used now goes for $35-45. Someone has to be financially incompetent to buy that phone and use it when they can spend a few hundred to get an SE, or even less for a certified refurbished phone from Apple that's still relevant. The iPhone X is due to get its support dropped soon. 2 years of security updates won't do much to keep the phone relevant and is currently overpriced on the used market.

Not everyone cares about what is delivered in feature updates, and anyway most apps are compatible with an OS a few releases behind unless their entire reason for existence is that new feature because app writers want the biggest potential userbase. They won't make an app that requires iOS 16 unless they have no choice, because there are hundreds of millions of phones that can't run it still in active use.

I upgrade iOS more for the security fixes than new features, and I suspect I'm not alone in that. Not saying new features are totally irrelevant to me, but if I look at Apple's list of new things coming with iOS 17 I doubt I will see more than one or two that I care about enough I'd even consider updating for features alone.

Your talk about "financially incompetent" people is kind of a western prejudice. There are people in the world for whom that $45 might be a week's or even a month's earnings. Telling them they should spend several times as much so they can get feature updates is pretty ignorant. Now maybe one could argue they should buy a new Android phone for that $45 - there are some that cheap - but I doubt they ever get an OS version upgrade so they may not get any new features delivered to them either.

 

[A///]

Not everyone cares about what is delivered in feature updates, most apps are compatible with an OS a few releases behind unless their entire reason for existence is that new feature because app writers want the biggest potential userbase. They won't make an app that requires iOS 16 unless they have no choice, because there are hundreds of millions of phones that can't run it still in active use.

That's why I said it depends on the app or innate feature set of the phone. Apple goes through periods where they put out middle of the road apps and features and then do some great ones.

Call me a damn nerd but I jumped for joy when Apple included lidar tech in the iPhone beginning with the 12th gen model. That is a fing cool feature. The closest feature and I use the word feature lightly here was the android phone I'd bought to try out had a very basic DIY ar mode that ceased to be interesting soon after I began trying it out. The Lidar iPhones? Hours of immense pleasure.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The Lidar iPhones? Hours of immense pleasure.

What are you doing with Lidar? Mapping out your home?

 

[A///]

What are you doing with Lidar? Mapping out your home?

No but that would have helped so much now that I think about it. I'd been using it to scan cool and interesting things.

 

[soresu]

No but that would have helped so much now that I think about it. I'd been using it to scan cool and interesting things.

One of the nice things to come out of the Epic Games/Quixel merger was the recent mobile app that can do 3D photogrammetry of objects using only RGB camera pictures.

Nice for the multitudes lacking LIDAR, especially now that UE5 can basically import the reconstructed 3D objects at full geometry resolution using Nanite.

 

[A///]

One of the nice things to come out of the Epic Games/Quixel merger was the recent mobile app that can do 3D photogrammetry of objects using only RGB camera pictures.

Nice for the multitudes lacking LIDAR, especially now that UE5 can basically import the reconstructed 3D objects at full geometry resolution using Nanite.

You lost me after Epic Games. All I know is they make Fortknight. I've used the Lidar to take scans of nature though improvements can be made. I haven't tried shoving my phone in hard to reach areas and see if it'll scan anything. It's done well with sculptures done traditionally or modern art.

What had not occurred to me was I could have used it for as @igor_kavinski pointed out. Instead I've wasted hundreds of hours printing out photos and using a white gel pen to write down notes to hand over to companies that special fabricate cabinets or stonework, people at improvement stores or contractors. What makes it worse is I'd watched the videos on Lidar when Apple announced it to familiarise myself with it at a handheld scale and conveniently forgot that I could have used it to cut down my frustration, work and chasing down companies.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You lost me after Epic Games. All I know is they make Fortknight.

They make something more important than that. Unreal Engine.

 

[soresu]

You lost me after Epic Games. All I know is they make Fortknight.

They make something more important than that. Unreal Engine.

What igor said - plus the Epic Games Store which has occasionally great free games.

Fortnite makes money for them, but their concentration is without a doubt on the Unreal Engine it is built on, and Fortnite often sees experimental use of new UE features months to years before they appear in ground up games.

These days UE4/5 is used in everything from games to architectural visualisation to virtual environments/presentations on news channels to virtual production for movies and TV series like The Mandalorian.

 

[A///]

They make something more important than that. Unreal Engine.

I'm familiar with that. They used to make Unreal Tournament. Very popular game almost 30 years ago. You either played that or Quake if you had a good computer. I fail to see what that's got to do with Epic Games merging with a company that has software to turn flat photos into 3d objects. Is it a free or paid service for 3d designers?

 

[soresu]

I fail to see what that's got to do with Epic Games merging with a company that has software to turn flat photos into 3d objects. Is it a free or paid service for 3d designers?

Quixel does photogrammetry software, but for the most part they have actually focused on creating professionally authored photogrammetry assets of their own in the Quixel Megascans library which is now free to people using the Unreal Engine since not long after the acquisition.

The amazing UE5 announcement demo "Lumen in the land of Nanite" was created using Quixel assets and it is stellar.

 

[soresu]

God I sound like an Epic promoter 😂

Apologies I shall tone it down 😆

 

[igor_kavinski]

I fail to see what that's got to do with Epic Games merging with a company that has software to turn flat photos into 3d objects.

Excellent article on that: https://www.mosaic51.com/featured/reality-capture-epic-games-ultimate-simulation/

Conclusion: Unreal Engine + Quixel Metascans + RealityCapture = the Ultimate Simulation​