Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

Page 78 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 78 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

M1 Ultra discussion here:

Page 109 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 109 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

M2 discussion here:

Page 127 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 127 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

Page 215 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 215 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

M4 Family discussion here:

Page 263 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 263 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

 

[Doug S]

As for the app store, I don't think it'll change much. I think 99% of people will continue to use the default app store no matter what. iOS users trust that any app they download on the default App Store isn't a scam or virus.

They may not have a choice. Facebook was upset at Apple's changes that limited their ability to track and cost them billions. They might set up a Facebook app store and tell people "from now on if you want Facebook, Instragram or WhatsApp you have to go there". Then Apple can't enforce anything for those apps beyond what the OS enforces (i.e. they couldn't use your microphone to spy on your since the user has to explicitly allow an app access to it) but all the current App Store rules become irrelevant.

That sort of thing would make it worse for everyone, especially if it normalizes alternate app stores and it becomes that much easier to fool people into installing the next one. And eventually there will be a buyout of a popular app that's on an alternate app store by scammers who will push a malware laced update.

I'm just glad that it is only the EU pushing this folly, so they will be the guinea pigs for dealing with this before it (hopefully never) comes to the rest of us.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think the Safari search default revenue is a risk. Yes, it's insanely profitable for Apple to just get 37% of pure profit from Google. But if anything, Apple will just open up default to Bing if the court forces them. They'll still make a ton of money whether it's from Google or Bing.

You have to assume that (assuming Google loses the lawsuit) that Bing won't be able to do it either.

It's like 4 billion a quarter for Apple. That's a big deal. Mozilla will likely go out of business too.

 

[manly]

As for the app store, I don't think it'll change much. I think 99% of people will continue to use the default app store no matter what. iOS users trust that any app they download on the default App Store isn't a scam or virus.

This is correct. Average consumers want the least amount of friction possible. Heck, apparently they buy iPhones just because of blue bubbles.

Once upon a time, there was an Amazon Appstore for Android. IIRC there was even a trademark dispute over the term "app store." I'm not sure it still exists, because nobody actually used it. Even if the EU pierces Apple's (or Google's) walled garden, most people won't know or even care.

Something similar happened with BitTorrent, which at a time was the dominant distribution for video content. But once Netflix and other streaming services made a push, consumers were willing to drop a free (but manually driven download process) for a simple UX with an affordable monthly cost. (Unfortunately now the streamers are turning into cable companies 2.0).

The time to stop Apple's App Store would have been in 2010 (anyone remember Cydia?); by now it's way too late.

 

[Doug S]

You have to assume that (assuming Google loses the lawsuit) that Bing won't be able to do it either.

It's like 4 billion a quarter for Apple. That's a big deal. Mozilla will likely go out of business too.

Apple is only getting 1/3 of Google's search advertising revenue for searches conducted on Apple devices. Apple has been crawling the web for over a decade, they probably have had a search engine running internally for ages that could easily be deployed.

It would take some time to deploy an advertising market for it, but they could eventually introduce advertising based solely on search terms without using any personal information. Privacy would be preserved, and you'd have a search engine that actually obeyed you if you used quotes or +/- which Google Search decides to ignore at random, claiming it is because of your "search history" or whatever that indicate they should (what they really mean is we want to direct you to the highest paying searches)

I've long questioned the value that the personal information adds to advertising but let's say are willing to pay twice as much for a Google ad that uses all the juicy data they've collected on you versus an ad that uses only your search terms. So Apple would get half the revenue Google does (but half of 100% is still better than 36% of 100%) Some might argue "but Google's search will be better" though given the poor quality of Google search which seems to get worse every year I'm not sure how much better it will be. But let's say 1/3 of Apple customers find their search so crappy they go to the bother of changing the default from Apple Search to Google Search. That basically drops Apple down to the same revenue they are getting currently from Google. And there's no way 1/3 of users would do that - Apple Maps definitely was inferior when introduced, but only about 10% of iPhone users downloaded Google Maps (and that was back then, I'm sure the numbers are far smaller now)

The bigger long term risk IMHO is that Apple is forced one way or another to allow "full" Chrome on iOS, rather than mandating the use of WebKit in all browsers. If that happens, there will effectively be no more browser competition at all, as the existence of Safari is the only reason web sites haven't already gone to the "best viewed in Chrome" tags and testing only with Chrome like they did in the dark days of IE6. Firefox's market share is simply far too small to stop it. Web designers can't do that can't today because iOS users are basically all using Safari, so they have no choice but to take it into account. But if full Chrome was available and the web slowly became broken for Safari users they would be forced to capitulate and download Chrome just to have a working browser. That Chrome download of course would default to Google Search, with Google keeping ALL the revenue for itself.

I hope that if Apple is forced to open up iOS browsing due to "monopoly" concerns, those same monopoly concerns should mandate that Google is forced to divest Chrome, and be permanently barred from any involvement in the development or distribution of web browsers.

And yes, Mozilla would be out of business if Google wasn't allowed to pay them to make Google Search the default. That's basically their entire funding. Not that having all that money has stopped them from continually screwing up and making every wrong decision in developing Firefox and destroying its userbase.

 

[jpiniero]

Apple is only getting 1/3 of Google's search advertising revenue for searches conducted on Apple devices. Apple has been crawling the web for over a decade, they probably have had a search engine running internally for ages that could easily be deployed.

Unlikely. Why do that when Google is giving you more than most F500 companies revenue a quarter and you don't have to do anything?

 

[Doug S]

Unlikely. Why do that when Google is giving you more than most F500 companies revenue a quarter and you don't have to do anything?

I don't think Apple wants to deal with operating their own search engine, but if regulators make Google stop paying them then I think Apple can roll it out in pretty short order and with little change to their financial position.

The big risk for Apple regulation wise are changes that take away their App Store revenue by letting everyone have free access to their platform via operating their own app store or sideloading.

 

[poke01]

So I returned the M3 MBP back to Apple I couldn't stomach the $2400+ AUD being spent on a 8GB laptop. It's actually started choking at 4K YouTube videos and browsing multi on Chrome. Definitely would not last even 1 year, not with all the swapping and the SSD will wear.


Moral of the story: don't ever buy 8GB Macs. They are designed to die with less than 4 years of heavy use and the SSD is not removable. It will be a paperweight.

 

[soresu]

Heck, apparently they buy iPhones just because of blue bubbles.

Lol I started seeing something about that recently with the RCS/iMessage nonsense.

I know I'm not nearly as attached to my phone as the avg person because I do almost everything on my PC instead - but it still seems laughably silly none the less.

 

[FlameTail]

So I returned the M3 MBP back to Apple I couldn't stomach the $2400+ AUD being spent on a 8GB laptop. It's actually started choking at 4K YouTube videos and browsing multi on Chrome. Definitely would not last even 1 year, not with all the swapping and the SSD will wear.


Moral of the story: don't ever buy 8GB Macs. They are designed to die with less than 4 years of heavy use and the SSD is not removable. It will be a paperweight.

Why on earth did you even buy the 8gb version?

 

[FlameTail]

I know I'm not nearly as attached to my phone as the avg person because I do almost everything on my PC instead - but it still seems laughably silly none the less.

It seems like a serious issue with American teenagers.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think Apple wants to deal with operating their own search engine, but if regulators make Google stop paying them then I think Apple can roll it out in pretty short order and with little change to their financial position.

It's not that easy. They are pretty much going to have to suck it up. Google's revenue isn't really from the ads, it's from the spying and the data mining. Only Facebook can really compete.

 

[poke01]

Why on earth did you even buy the 8gb version?

To test the M3 chip. I liked it but definitely not worth. I had 14 days to return it, so like a trial of sorts.

 

[eek2121]

This is correct. Average consumers want the least amount of friction possible. Heck, apparently they buy iPhones just because of blue bubbles.

Once upon a time, there was an Amazon Appstore for Android. IIRC there was even a trademark dispute over the term "app store." I'm not sure it still exists, because nobody actually used it. Even if the EU pierces Apple's (or Google's) walled garden, most people won't know or even care.

Something similar happened with BitTorrent, which at a time was the dominant distribution for video content. But once Netflix and other streaming services made a push, consumers were willing to drop a free (but manually driven download process) for a simple UX with an affordable monthly cost. (Unfortunately now the streamers are turning into cable companies 2.0).

The time to stop Apple's App Store would have been in 2010 (anyone remember Cydia?); by now it's way too late.

Amazon App Store is not only a thing, but you can install it as part of the Windows Subsystem for Android or whatever they call it.

IIRC they were playing Epic’s game of giving out free apps/games at one point.


Blue/green bubbles…don’t get me started. There are women out there who will refuse to date you unless you own an iPhone.

I am dead serious.

The entitlement is real.

 

[Eug]

Regarding messaging...

iOS 18 will support RCS. I'm guessing RCS messages will still probably be green though, because I don't expect RCS messaging on iPhone will support Live Photos.

 

[tamz_msc]

I've heard that Americans still use MMS - is that true?

 

[Doug S]

Regarding messaging...

iOS 18 will support RCS. I'm guessing RCS messages will still probably be green though, because I don't expect RCS messaging on iPhone will support Live Photos.

Apple already said RCS will be green. What part of "blue is for iMessage" do people not get?

And if there are really women who won't date you if you have green bubbles you've dodged a bullet - even if you passed that "test" she'd also expect you to drive the right car, own a house in the right neighborhood, etc. and is basically looking for a guy willing to spend a lot of money on her.

When I first heard about the "teens getting bullied for green bubbles" thing last spring I asked my girlfriend's niece (she just turned 16) She said it was a joke meme going around Tik Tok, not a real thing. Apparently like the "kids identifying as cats getting schools to provide them litter boxes" hoax from a year or two ago it has gained traction in the media.

 

[manly]

I've heard that Americans still use MMS - is that true?

Yes, it works fine for photos and group texts. However, when an iPhone sends a video to Android, it's total garbage. Like worse than VGA, super low bitrate so it looks like home video cam footage from the 1960s.

Blue bubbles bullying may be a meme, but iPhone enjoys roughly 50% market share in the U.S.! Whereas it's much lower overseas outside of a few countries.

The problem with RCS is that E2EE is not standard, but a Google extension. So it's certainly better than MMS, but it can't be considered secure outside of Google's proprietary implementation.

As for Amazon Appstore, does anyone actually use it? I remember "purchasing" a couple apps from it a decade ago, but never touched it since. At least Epic Games store gives away stuff, and there are a few gamers who currently use it.

 

[mikegg]

Apple already said RCS will be green. What part of "blue is for iMessage" do people not get?

And if there are really women who won't date you if you have green bubbles you've dodged a bullet - even if you passed that "test" she'd also expect you to drive the right car, own a house in the right neighborhood, etc. and is basically looking for a guy willing to spend a lot of money on her.

When I first heard about the "teens getting bullied for green bubbles" thing last spring I asked my girlfriend's niece (she just turned 16) She said it was a joke meme going around Tik Tok, not a real thing. Apparently like the "kids identifying as cats getting schools to provide them litter boxes" hoax from a year or two ago it has gained traction in the media.

When I was in college 10+ years ago, the green vs blue bubble thing was already in force. It was probably one of the reasons I switched from Android to iOS amongst a few other reasons. My girlfriend at the time was using an iPhone and I was on Android. It was a pain to send messages.

It isn't that you "dodged" a bullet. It's just that blue bubble messaging removes a lot of frustration and friction. It's like going from SMS to Whatsapp. The quality of life improvement is drastic.

 

[tamz_msc]

Yes, it works fine for photos and group texts. However, when an iPhone sends a video to Android, it's total garbage. Like worse than VGA, super low bitrate so it looks like home video cam footage from the 1960s.

Obviously it will be garbage because you rely on 2000s tech, when the best camera in a phone was the Nokia 6600.

 

[DrMrLordX]

And if there are really women who won't date you if you have green bubbles you've dodged a bullet - even if you passed that "test" she'd also expect you to drive the right car, own a house in the right neighborhood, etc. and is basically looking for a guy willing to spend a lot of money on her.

Men with real money have foldable Android phones.

 

[FlameTail]

Men with real money have foldable Android phones.

You haven't seen this eh?

That $170 000 phone.

 

[eek2121]

Apple already said RCS will be green. What part of "blue is for iMessage" do people not get?

And if there are really women who won't date you if you have green bubbles you've dodged a bullet - even if you passed that "test" she'd also expect you to drive the right car, own a house in the right neighborhood, etc. and is basically looking for a guy willing to spend a lot of money on her.

When I first heard about the "teens getting bullied for green bubbles" thing last spring I asked my girlfriend's niece (she just turned 16) She said it was a joke meme going around Tik Tok, not a real thing. Apparently like the "kids identifying as cats getting schools to provide them litter boxes" hoax from a year or two ago it has gained traction in the media.

Oh the green vs. blue thing is very real, at least here in the U.S.

 

[Eug]

Apple already said RCS will be green. What part of "blue is for iMessage" do people not get?

I figured as much but didn’t realize they had actually announced that part already. However, ironically, for years I used SMS on my iPhone because iMessage had significant growing pains when it first came out. But now it is key, and we are an all iPhone household, partially for the sake of iMessage and Live Photos.

We are also still on a multi Apple AirPort Extreme (circa 2013) 802.11ac wireless network at home, since it works well and supports all our Apple devices with seamless handoff, even though seamless handoff wasn't even advertised as a feature with these. I suspect the reason it wasn't advertised was because its seamless handoff does NOT work with Android, Linux, and Windows devices, only Apple devices. So far I haven't felt the need to upgrade to 802.11ax, esp. considering most of our WiFi client devices don't support that standard anyway. That makes this WiFi network a decade old now, and I could see us still using it 5 years from now, given the advantages it has for our primarily Apple household. We do have several non-Apple WiFi client devices, but since they are all non-mobile devices, the lack of seamless handoff with those is moot.

Overall, this hardware and software integration is a real advantage for our purposes, but it can also have some disadvantages too sometimes of course.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That $170 000 phone.

That's just extra bling from an aftermarket source though. Samsung doesn't actually sell a $170k phone, and iPhonegurl will still turn her nose up at your green texts.

 

[Doug S]

I figured as much but didn’t realize they had actually announced that part already. However, ironically, for years I used SMS on my iPhone because iMessage had significant growing pains when it first came out. But now it is key, and we are an all iPhone household, partially for the sake of iMessage and Live Photos.

I remember iMessage being a pain initially because of its reliance on data. If you were on a highly congested cell (common back in the day, especially if you were in a place with a lot of people) your iMessages might take ages to get through since voice is prioritized over data. But SMS could get through because it used the cellular control link that was less overwhelmed, so if I was at a football game or crowded mall I'd have to turn off iMessage.