Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[Doug S]

Then it case I think Apple should have stuck with 4 core clusters. Comparing M3 vs M3 Pro/Max, the ST performance difference is minimal, which shows that the extra cache isn't helping that much.

But more importantly it would have allowed them to this:

M3: 4P + 4E
M3 Pro : 8P + 4E
M3 Max : 12P + 4E

How neat is that!

There are other considerations when it comes to the choice of two 6 core clusters versus three 4 core clusters - the L2 of each cluster is connected to the SLC. More ports means more snoop traffic (which may impact latency) and more wiring complexity (which may impact and both size and latency) Maybe someday they get enough to use a ring bus to connect everything to the SLC which solves the wiring impact and mitigates the snoop traffic, but that has even bigger latency impacts.

Everything is a tradeoff.

 

[okoroezenwa]

Anyone here have a Macbook with M3 Pro or M3 Max?


- https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...ormance-and-improved-efficiency.766789.0.html

I want to know if it's only the base M3 showing this behaviour, where under all-core load, the max speed is 3.6 GHz.

Hoakley found similar on the M3 Pro https://eclecticlight.co/2023/11/27/evaluating-m3-pro-cpu-cores-1-general-performance/

 

[FlameTail]

@SpudLobby

now that we have this information about the M3 CPUs, what do you think of Qualcomm's dual-core boost strategy?

 

[FlameTail]

When is M3 Ultra expected to arrive?

 

[okoroezenwa]

When is M3 Ultra expected to arrive?

Interesting timing. M3 Ultra Mac Studio Rumored to Launch in Mid-2024, But No Sign of New Mac Pro

 

[Doug S]

Interesting timing. M3 Ultra Mac Studio Rumored to Launch in Mid-2024, But No Sign of New Mac Pro

They claim it is fabbed with N3E. Since it is made from two M3 Max, they would have to switch those from N3B to N3E. That would line up with the claims that Apple will be switching to N3E once it is available due to cost savings (and perhaps TSMC forcing/encouraging it via the KGD deal having an expiration date or funding the port of A17 and the M3 family)

 

[smalM]

I think the A17/M3 generation will just be as short-lived as N3 and that's it. No redesign for N3E needed.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I think the A17/M3 generation will just be as short-lived as N3 and that's it. No redesign for N3E needed.

N3E and N3P should be around for awhile.

 

[FlameTail]

When will the Macbook Airs get the M3, and what price are we expecting?

The Macbook Air releases in the previous years have been a bit weird, to say the least.

First came the M1 Macbook Air for $999.

Then came the M2 Macbook Air 13" at $1199
But the old M1 Air 13" didn't get discontinued, nor did it get a price cut. Apple continued to sell it at $999.

Then came the M2 Macbook Air 15", at $1299. At the same time, the 13" M2 Air got a price cut to $1099.

 

[okoroezenwa]

When will the Macbook Airs get the M3, and what price are we expecting?

The Macbook Air releases in the previous years have been a bit weird, to say the least.

First came the M1 Macbook Air for $999.

Then came the M2 Macbook Air 13" at $1199
But the old M1 Air 13" didn't get discontinued, nor did it get a price cut. Apple continued to sell it at $999.

Then came the M2 Macbook Air 15", at $1299. At the same time, the 13" M2 Air got a price cut to $1099.

I'm guessing the March/April rumours are correct and the 13" Air will get down to $999 this year (at 8/256 of course). Apple seems to be taking the same path they did with the 2018 Air redesign so they're probably going to get it down there and get rid of the M1 Air. I could see the 15" Air also dropping $100 but I could also see it just staying at $1299.

I do hope they consider an SE strategy with the M1 Air. Either keep it in the line for like $699 (too good) to $799 (ok) or reintroduce it later with updated internals at those prices. Or maybe $899, I dunno.

 

[FlameTail]

Also,


My soul briefly left my body when I saw this.

 

[Thibsie]

Also,
View attachment 91785

My soul briefly left my body when I saw this.

Well... Apple.🤷‍♀️

 

[Harry_Wild]

Looking forward to the upcoming M4 SOC in 2025!

 

[Eug]

Gurman claims the Apple Vision Pro has an M2 with 8 CPU cores and 10 GPU cores.

I didn’t realize these things needed so much processing power.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746585308626612655

 

[igor_kavinski]

Gurman claims the Apple Vision Pro has an M2 with 8 CPU cores and 10 GPU cores.

Could just be a glut of M2 CPUs due to overproduction. Might as well use them for something coz they are not gonna increase their marketshare in laptops with their current prices. Also gives them an excuse to refresh these headsets periodically with newer CPUs.

 

[soresu]

What's 10 GPU cores equivalent to in AMD or nVidia terms?

 

[Eug]

Could just be a glut of M2 CPUs due to overproduction. Might as well use them for something coz they are not gonna increase their marketshare in laptops with their current prices. Also gives them an excuse to refresh these headsets periodically with newer CPUs.

I’m 100% sure the SoC for this device has been planned for years.

 

[Mopetar]

Also, they need a chip with the hardware to drive all of the displays. They're claiming to be driving 23 million pixels which is about the equivalent of 3 4k displays. They have to drive the displays for each eye and then the front display that's showing someone an image of the person wearing the device.

Since they're charging so much for this anyways they may have gone with the more premium SoC variant just to give the impression of added value. If it normally costs $$$ to upgrade to that over the baseline version in their laptops then it makes the hefty price of the equipment feel a bit more reasonable from a psychological perspective.

 

[Ajay]

Geez, Apple really does charge an arm and a leg for extra DRAM and SSD storage ugrades. Was toying around with buying a Mac Mini to try my hand at IOS app development. Been wanting to do that for a while. I even looked a late model Intel Mini's (2018-2020) - Gah!, only a hundred bucks cheaper for the same specs.

 

[FlameTail]

What's 10 GPU cores equivalent to in AMD or nVidia terms?

 

[FlameTail]

Yo wait a minute.

How does the M2 get to drive 3 4K displays when it only has 2 display engines?

 

[poke01]

Yo wait a minute.

How does the M2 get to drive 3 4K displays when it only has 2 display engines?

I think it’s still 2 displays. 3000 x 3000. One display for each eye but since resolution is so high it’s equivalent to 3 4K panels worth of pixels.

 

[FlameTail]

Ah yes. One display per eye. That's 2 displays.

Then what about the external display that shows the user's eyes?

Where is the display engine powering that?

 

[ashFTW]

Ah yes. One display per eye. That's 2 displays.

Then what about the external display that shows the user's eyes?

Where is the display engine powering that?

Maybe the R1 chip since it’s the one responsible for real-time handling of all sensors including the cameras facing inwards.

 

[LightningZ71]

Just guessing, but that exterior dusplay isn't exactly 4k or anything. It could be driven by a usb based video controller.