Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[Eug]

Regarding AI: Some of the AI features for pictures will be interesting and useful, so perhaps I will miss that if I skip the iPhone 16 series and wait for the iPhone 17 series. But as mentioned, I will have support for that on my M4 iPad Pro. However, it's the ChatGPT type stuff that I don't care about (yet).

That’s a lot of Airport Extremes! Makes sense though, you could always upgrade incrementally too. I have gigabit Fios but can’t really access the high speed 6Ghz band that I’d like to. But that’s just first-world problems.

Can't really upgrade the WiFi setup incrementally with non-Apple units. For Apple client devices it has effectively seamless handoff between units. It's strange, AFAIK Apple never advertised this feature, but it works. (I suspect they never advertised it because it does not work with non-Apple devices at all. Linux and Windows clients will stay with the last AirPort they were on until the bitter end, even if there is a closer AirPort nearby. But it works great with even my latest M4 iPad Pro, despite the fact these AirPort Extremes are from 2013.) Also, these and other features won't work with any added non-Apple access points. BTW, I also have AirPort Express units on the same system for music streaming.



I used to also have a 7th AirPort at the other end of the backyard too, but some animal chewed through the Ethernet cabling, and I haven't bothered replacing it yet.

So, if I want to upgrade the system, I'd really have to upgrade the entire network all at once. I'm guessing for a Ubiquiti setup to get this level of seamless handoff, I'd need 3-4 access points which is $$$ so I just haven't bothered. As long as I can get >50 Mbps anywhere in the house (and in the yard), then I'm fine with that. That's good enough for 4K video streaming and surfing at the same time. My work desktops are all on Ethernet.

 

[Doug S]

I'm still thinking about it, but I'm strongly leaning toward waiting for the 17 Pro Max, even though my 12 Pro Max is now 4 years old.

The main issue for me is that the 16 Pro Max gets no update to the telephoto lens and sensor, which has been criticized in the 15 Pro Max as a half-assed implementation. The 17 Pro Max is rumoured to get a big upgrade in the sensor, and a RAM upgrade too.

Performance-wise the A14 in the 12 Pro Max is totally fine for a phone (Geekbench 6 ~ 2200/5300), and I too don't give a damn about the AI upgrades at this point. And even if I did, I'd be able to use my iPad Pro M4 for that anyway.

I'm a little worried about Apple modem rumoured for next year's iPhones though. Will it be able to keep up with Qualcomm's offering?


Heheh. My home WiFi is still 802.11ac. I have 6 Apple AirPort Extremes around my large oddly-shaped house, so I'm not inclined to upgrade the entire WiFi network as it would not provide much meaningful functional improvement in my house and would cost a lot to upgrade.

Battery life is only 82% but I'll get the battery service anyway in the near future as the plan is to pass down the phone to our kid next year.

My wife is on the 14 Pro Max, but I think she can stick with that for a few more years too.

I'm a little worried about Apple modem rumoured for next year's iPhones though. Will it be able to keep up with Qualcomm's offering?

Eh, you're trying to second guess when to buy based on rumors. The iPhone's ability to take great pictures (as evidenced by the photos/videos people take using iPhones without any sort of external lens etc.) long ago far surpassed my limited ability as a photographer to choose the right time and place to take a picture, so such upgrades are the last thing on my mind. Even if it wasn't, what happens if there's a story next June from Kuo that due to delays getting enough of the right parts the 17 Pro Max won't get the upgrades you're looking for and they're pushed back a year? Then you're waiting for the 18, but if they pull the trigger on Apple's modem you say want to avoid then you'll wait for the 19. And who knows, maybe the summer before the 19 Kuo drops a bomb about some big upgrade in the 20 that you feel you REALLY want?

I just upgrade every other year, that takes playing the rumor game out of the mix. My trade in still carries a lot of value, so I'm paying less than a dollar a day. Given how much time I spend with my phone (too much screen time lol) that's probably the cheapest thing I'll ever buy versus how much use I get out of it. My car costs me way over 10x as much per day and I use it way less than 1/10th as much time as my phone!

 

[Eug]

Eh, you're trying to second guess when to buy based on rumors. The iPhone's ability to take great pictures (as evidenced by the photos/videos people take using iPhones without any sort of external lens etc.) long ago far surpassed my limited ability as a photographer to choose the right time and place to take a picture, so such upgrades are the last thing on my mind. Even if it wasn't, what happens if there's a story next June from Kuo that due to delays getting enough of the right parts the 17 Pro Max won't get the upgrades you're looking for and they're pushed back a year? Then you're waiting for the 18, but if they pull the trigger on Apple's modem you say want to avoid then you'll wait for the 19. And who knows, maybe the summer before the 19 Kuo drops a bomb about some big upgrade in the 20 that you feel you REALLY want?

I just upgrade every other year, that takes playing the rumor game out of the mix. My trade in still carries a lot of value, so I'm paying less than a dollar a day. Given how much time I spend with my phone (too much screen time lol) that's probably the cheapest thing I'll ever buy versus how much use I get out of it. My car costs me way over 10x as much per day and I use it way less than 1/10th as much time as my phone!

Meh. The nice photos you see out there usually are not taken with the 5X telephoto of the iPhone 15 Pro Max, because it just isn't great. Also, personally I think it's a waste of money to buy every other year, but that's just me. I'm fine to wait another year. I'm not fine to wait another three, but it's not as if I've been pining for a new upgrade, since performance of the 12 Pro Max is still very good. It's not like a decade ago where a 2 year old iPhone would become slow.

Note though up here in Canada I never buy these phones on contract through my carrier. I buy them outright full price, which leaves me flexibility to switch carriers at will, to capture the latest phone plan deal.

Anyhow, so far I've generally done well with my rumour and prediction based future purchase planning:

eg:
Didn't buy iPad Air because it only had 1 GB RAM. Waited one year and got the iPad Air 2 with 2 GB RAM (and triple-core CPU). (Actually, this was more a prediction on my part, rather than a solid rumour.)

Didn't buy 2016 MacBook or 2016 iMac because they didn't support HEVC in hardware. Waited until 2017 for both, and both machines got HEVC support in hardware (Kaby Lake). (Again, this was more a prediction on my part, rather than a solid rumour.)

Was planning to get the rumoured M2 Pro Mac mini in 2023 with additional USB ports but in this case I ended up getting the M1 in 2022, but that's because I really needed a new machine (as my cheese grater Mac Pro was acting up) and found a good well-spec'd M1 (16 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD) for a good price on the used market. (In contrast, I don't need a new phone, as my 12 Pro Max is still speedy and works well.) However, that M2 Pro with extra USB ports did indeed get released in 2023, just as rumoured.

Didn't buy the M2 iPad Pro, because I didn't want mini-LED. I wanted OLED, and got that in the M4 iPad Pro just as rumoured. I didn't see the point of upgrading from my 2017 iPad Pro with LCD, just to get another LCD in the M2 iPad Pro.

Anyhow, rumoured camera upgrades for iPhones are actually less of a risk in this context, because Apple largely keeps to an incremental upgrade schedule for the camera. The lack of an upgrade to the 5X telephoto was actually fully expected for the iPhone 16 Pro Max, correctly predicted in the rumour mill, so it didn't come as a surprise at all.

 

[jdubs03]

Eh, you're trying to second guess when to buy based on rumors. The iPhone's ability to take great pictures (as evidenced by the photos/videos people take using iPhones without any sort of external lens etc.) long ago far surpassed my limited ability as a photographer to choose the right time and place to take a picture, so such upgrades are the last thing on my mind. Even if it wasn't, what happens if there's a story next June from Kuo that due to delays getting enough of the right parts the 17 Pro Max won't get the upgrades you're looking for and they're pushed back a year? Then you're waiting for the 18, but if they pull the trigger on Apple's modem you say want to avoid then you'll wait for the 19. And who knows, maybe the summer before the 19 Kuo drops a bomb about some big upgrade in the 20 that you feel you REALLY want?

I just upgrade every other year, that takes playing the rumor game out of the mix. My trade in still carries a lot of value, so I'm paying less than a dollar a day. Given how much time I spend with my phone (too much screen time lol) that's probably the cheapest thing I'll ever buy versus how much use I get out of it. My car costs me way over 10x as much per day and I use it way less than 1/10th as much time as my phone!

That desert titanium sure is alluring though haha. I originally had a 13Pro (prior to that had a Samsung S8+ but accidentally sat on it climbing down a mountain and messed it up a bit, but it’s still a good portable audio player) but then upgraded to the 14Pro because I wasn’t a fan of the notch and the design change to the Dynamic Island was nice.
So I figure the 17Max is appropriate as that gets me back on a normal 2 year cadence. I just hope the color options are solid. And maybe the rumors of a narrower island cutout will come to fruition.

 

[FlameTail]

GFX is a joke lol. 3d mark steel nomad light is more believable.

A17 Pro and 8G3 were evenly matched in Steel Nomad Light.



Apple's official figure for A18 Pro is that it's GPU is 20% faster than A17 Pro. Meanwhile, 8 Gen 4's GPU is rumoured to be atleast 30% faster, with some rumours suggesting as high as 60% faster than 8 Gen 3.

 

[jdubs03]

A17 Pro and 8G3 were evenly matched in Steel Nomad Light.
View attachment 107179


Apple's official figure for A18 Pro is that it's GPU is 20% faster than A17 Pro. Meanwhile, 8 Gen 4's GPU is rumoured to be atleast 30% faster, with some rumours suggesting as high as 60% faster than 8 Gen 3.

There is no way the Gen 4 doesn’t gobble up power like a boss. Count me surprised if they manage to pull off not doing so.

 

[POWER4]

However I really want to see if there’s any movement on GPU. M4 also made little progress on that front so I’m interested to see if A18 moves things forward there.

I was also waiting for GPU improvements. Apple Silicon CPU are great, but the GPUs still have room for improvements.

One of the most interesting things to me in the Apple Silicon CPU Optimization Guide is that Apple appears to use architectural features when they are ready to, and don’t maintain a strict generation across the line.

I have been under that impression for a while now. Apple seems to be on a 'rolling release' scheme, with features added as they're ready.

I wonder if this is because their hardware team can't move as fast as their silicon team. Think about the Mac Studio. If the rumors are to be believed, the M4 Max will be released about a year after the original M4. There is plenty of space for improvements in this meantime.

 

[FlameTail]

Dan Nystedt

Arm shares rose 7% in US trading after the Financial Times reported Apple will use Arm’s newest CPU design architecture, V9, in the main chip inside iPhone 16, which could bring twice the royalties as the previous generation Arm V8. The iPhone makes up close to half of Arm’s total revenue already. Arm licenses its CPU architectures to companies that want to develop their own chip, with the V9 already inside Apple’s M4 chips

Apple makes up half of ARM's revenue??

 

[Doug S]

I was also waiting for GPU improvements. Apple Silicon CPU are great, but the GPUs still have room for improvements.

I have been under that impression for a while now. Apple seems to be on a 'rolling release' scheme, with features added as they're ready.

I wonder if this is because their hardware team can't move as fast as their silicon team. Think about the Mac Studio. If the rumors are to be believed, the M4 Max will be released about a year after the original M4. There is plenty of space for improvements in this meantime.

I thought we're going to see M4P and M4M this fall for the Macbook Pro? No reason they couldn't release a new Mac Studio then, other than perhaps not wanting to step on Mac Pro until Ultra is ready.

While it used to make sense to sync up the P core, E core, GPU, NPU and other stuff every year, because the iPhone's schedule is involuble and that was all that really mattered, that's no longer true. Since Apple Silicon appeared on the scene there are multiple designs using those blocks, but the Mac's schedule is relatively flexible. If they want to use a new P core design in the next gen Apple Silicon but they have to push back the release three months to get it, they have the option to do it, because people aren't expecting a new Macbook Pro in a certain month every year like they are the iPhone.

 

[Doug S]

Dan Nystedt

Apple makes up half of ARM's revenue??

That's ridiculous on the face of it. Clearly he has no clue what he's talking about.

 

[jdubs03]

I thought we're going to see M4P and M4M this fall for the Macbook Pro? No reason they couldn't release a new Mac Studio then, other than perhaps not wanting to step on Mac Pro until Ultra is ready.

While it used to make sense to sync up the P core, E core, GPU, NPU and other stuff every year, because the iPhone's schedule is involuble and that was all that really mattered, that's no longer true. Since Apple Silicon appeared on the scene there are multiple designs using those blocks, but the Mac's schedule is relatively flexible. If they want to use a new P core design in the next gen Apple Silicon but they have to push back the release three months to get it, they have the option to do it, because people aren't expecting a new Macbook Pro in a certain month every year like they are the iPhone.

Yeah. The M4 Pro and M4 Max will get released for the MacBook Pro next month. The M4 Ultra would be next spring. Granted this info is coming from Mark Gurman but he’s been more reliable than anyone else I’ve seen.

To be honest, I wish they did have a normal release schedule like the iPhone so you could expect each new Apple Silicon revision to be in the next release for x product. Seems like they’re getting close to that with the Mac lineup, but still staggering the MBP from the releases next spring: MacBook Air, Mac Studio, a Mac Pro (which might get a rumored M4 Extreme).

By then a standard M5 could be ready by the time those higher tier M4s are released. Which I find odd because it would be expected that the M5 would be at least 10% faster in single thread than the M4.

 

[GC2:CS]

Apple put up their typical vague % perf claims, but these allow for some nice YoY comparisons:

SoC	CPU Relative Perf (per Apple.com)
A14 (iPhone 12 / 12 Pro)	100.0%
A15 (iPhone 13 / 13 Pro)	~114.3% (+14% YoY)
A16 (iPhone 14 / 14 Pro)	~123.1% (+7.7% YoY)
A17 Pro (iPhone 15 Pro)	~139.1% (+13% YoY)
A18 Pro (iPhone 16 Pro)	160.0% (+15% YoY)

SoC	GPU Relative Perf (per Apple.com)	GPU Relative Perf per Core
A14 (iPhone 12 / 12 Pro) - 4C	100.0%	25
A15 (iPhone 13 / 13 Pro) - 5C	~133.3% (+33% YoY)	26.67 (+6.7% YoY)
A16 (iPhone 14 / 14 Pro) - 5C	~142.9% (+7.2% YoY)	28.58 (+14.3% YoY)
A17 Pro (iPhone 15 Pro) - 6C	~166.7% (+17% YoY)	27.78 (-3% YoY)
A18 Pro (iPhone 16 Pro) - 6C	200.0% (+20% YoY)	33.33 (+20% YoY)

I could also try to equalize by frequency, but I'm too lazy for that atm. Some of the maths may be off, as how did the A17 Pro only gain +17% perf with +20% more cores? Or maybe the maths is right and the hexa-core design was bottlenecked by something else.

Yeah ! Those comparison thingy on ther web site provide some nice info ! Even for generations where they kept silent.

QUESTION : How is A18 40% faster than A16 and A18 Pro 40% faster than A16 if the A18 Pro has one more core ? Maybe just clocked lower ? They said A18 Pro is both Faster AND more efficient than A18.

Also M4 has bassically M3 has bassically A17 Pro GPU.

Will the M4 Pro/Max/Ultra/Spongebob get this new A18 GPU that seems like a big upgrade ?

Also those battery comparisons are bolocks ! If the video playback corresponds to the SoT somewhat then we get an iPhone 11 Pro or at least and iPhone 13 Pro like moment at hand. The smaller 16 Pro shall actually compete with last gen Big models ! And Pro iPhones are now lasting firmly more than regular ones - only happened in iPhone 11 gen before.

Just wonder why they did not state it publicly in the keynote.

 

[GC2:CS]

I'm still thinking about it, but I'm strongly leaning toward waiting for the 17 Pro Max, even though my 12 Pro Max is now 4 years old.

The main issue for me is that the 16 Pro Max gets no update to the telephoto lens and sensor, which has been criticized in the 15 Pro Max as a half-assed implementation. The 17 Pro Max is rumoured to get a big upgrade in the sensor, and a RAM upgrade too.

Performance-wise the A14 in the 12 Pro Max is totally fine for a phone (Geekbench 6 ~ 2200/5300), and I too don't give a damn about the AI upgrades at this point. And even if I did, I'd be able to use my iPad Pro M4 for that anyway.

I'm a little worried about Apple modem rumoured for next year's iPhones though. Will it be able to keep up with Qualcomm's offering?


Heheh. My home WiFi is still 802.11ac. I have 6 Apple AirPort Extremes around my large oddly-shaped house, so I'm not inclined to upgrade the entire WiFi network as it would not provide much meaningful functional improvement in my house and would cost a lot to upgrade.

Battery life is only 82% but I'll get the battery service anyway in the near future as the plan is to pass down the phone to our kid next year.

My wife is on the 14 Pro Max, but I think she can stick with that for a few more years too.

I'm a little worried about Apple modem rumoured for next year's iPhones though. Will it be able to keep up with Qualcomm's offering?

While I understand you are shooting for the best model that is over average compared to neighbouring releases, i miss some of the points on camera.

Where was the tetraprism critized as half assed ? I do not quite remember.
What I do not like about it that is a very specialized lens and I really prefer the 2x telephotos of the past. But in the future the specialization will only get worse i suppose. Other than that I think it is a very good camera without competition.

Why do you want a full 48 Mpx setup ?
While even I was positivelly surprised with the 48Mpx main as I did not believed there would be that much upgrade in detail - I think the other cameras will benefit far far less due to their size. Also there were downsides - slower capture, wider FOV, much higher minimal focus distance.

Will have to see, but the optics is a much bigger problem for the UW then resolution.

 

[naukkis]

I know their CPU cores are BIG as in LARGE, but I wish they would upgrade to 4P cores. They want these devices to be viable for gaming, and while I'm protbbly wrong I suspect just 2P is hurting performance, no matter how powerful these cores are.



Apple isn't directly competing with anyone, so it doesn't really matter?

4 big cores are useless on phone. What is sane tdp for game phone 7w? Give 4w for gpu, 1,5w for e-cores and leftover 1.5w isn't enough for two big cores. So game should only put its main thread to big core, thread what it can to e-cores and left other big core to system calls - needs fast core but won't utilize it 100% so power budget allows to run main thread at reasonable cpu speed. Is there any Apple game developers in forum?

 

[jdubs03]

Yeah ! Those comparison thingy on ther web site provide some nice info ! Even for generations where they kept silent.

QUESTION : How is A18 40% faster than A16 and A18 Pro 40% faster than A16 if the A18 Pro has one more core ? Maybe just clocked lower ? They said A18 Pro is both Faster AND more efficient than A18.

Also M4 has bassically M3 has bassically A17 Pro GPU.

Will the M4 Pro/Max/Ultra/Spongebob get this new A18 GPU that seems like a big upgrade ?

Looking at their slides, something seems weird on the GPU performance figures.

A18 Pro (6 core GPU) - 20% faster than the A17 Pro (6 core GPU)

A17 Pro (6 core GPU) - 20% faster than the the A16 Bionic (5 core GPU)

And they stated the the A18 (5 core GPU) is 40% faster than the A16 Bionic (5 core GPU).

Going by those numbers the A18 Pro should be 44% faster than the A16 Bionic. Which obviously is barely faster than the A18. That would make the A18 GPU much more impressive. And the pro completely very weak in comparison.

Will be interesting to see the benchmarks comparing each. I surmise it’s a typo somewhere. Like I’d think maybe the A18 is 20% faster than the A16.

 

[FlameTail]

What are the clock speeds for A18?

Someone on X said 3.89 GHz.

 

[mvprod123]

What are the clock speeds for A18?

Someone on X said 3.89 GHz.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/7698811

4,04 Ghz

 

[jdubs03]

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/7698811

4,04 Ghz

Uhh what the hell is going on with that MT score!? The A17 Pro scores 7200.
Should be around 8300.
Especially as it’s clocked higher. And sustained performance is said to be better.
ST is quite a bit lower than I would think as well.

 

[mvprod123]

Uhh what the hell is going on with that MT score!? The A17 Pro scores 7200.
Should be around 8300.
Especially as it’s clocked higher. And sustained performance is said to be better.
ST is quite a bit lower than I would think as well.

Early leaks always score low. Obviously, something was being done in the background.

 

[jdubs03]

Early leaks always score low. Obviously, something was being done in the background.

Yea has to be. Why even run it then ya know. Makes no sense.

 

[poke01]

Uhh what the hell is going on with that MT score!? The A17 Pro scores 7200.
Should be around 8300.
Especially as it’s clocked higher. And sustained performance is said to be better.
ST is quite a bit lower than I would think as well.

yep I would wait for others. MT is on par with A16.. definitely a throttled score or something

 

[poke01]

On second thought, I think that scores correct at least for ST. A18 has less cache than the Pro.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/7698811

4,04 Ghz

A phone chip is running at 4GHz. How far have we come wow!

 

[jdubs03]

On second thought, I think that scores correct at least for ST. A18 has less cache than the Pro.

I was expecting a little over 3200 for ST (I said a few weeks back like 3400 because of SME). But each release for the last three generations gain about 11% in ST. The clock speed increase itself is 6.9%.
If it really is just 3115ish then there was no improvement in the IPC from the A17 Pro. Which is weird based on the 8ish% IPC increase from the M3 to the M4.

But yeah just one benchmark run, maybe GB isn’t updated to properly run it, test may have been done with other apps active in the background. Next week or so we’ll know!

 

[Eug]

While I understand you are shooting for the best model that is over average compared to neighbouring releases, i miss some of the points on camera.

Where was the tetraprism critized as half assed ? I do not quite remember.
What I do not like about it that is a very specialized lens and I really prefer the 2x telephotos of the past. But in the future the specialization will only get worse i suppose. Other than that I think it is a very good camera without competition.

Why do you want a full 48 Mpx setup ?
While even I was positivelly surprised with the 48Mpx main as I did not believed there would be that much upgrade in detail - I think the other cameras will benefit far far less due to their size. Also there were downsides - slower capture, wider FOV, much higher minimal focus distance.

Will have to see, but the optics is a much bigger problem for the UW then resolution.

It was discussed after the release of the 15 Pro Max. As you indicated, there is the loss of the 2X-3X optical lens, which means there is actually a reduction in quality at the 3X setting on the Pro Max vs the Pro since 3X on the Pro Max is just a crop of the 1X lens. Furthermore, the low light capability of the 5X is not great, and the iPhone may just default to cropping the 1X in low light anyway.

48 MP for the telephoto won't solve physics, but typically when Apple upgrades the sensor to 48 MP, it also increases the sensor size, and just as importantly, it introduces pixel binning options to improve image quality and reduce noise. The options for Apple's 48 MP sensors are 12 MP, 24 MP, and 48 MP output. In addition, the tetraprism lens itself is expected to get an overhaul. (This is not a surprise as the tetraprism design would have to change if the sensor size is increased.)

The other rumoured camera upgrades are a 24 MP FaceTime camera, a mechanical aperture, and a RAM upgrade too to support all those fancy new features.

As you may have guessed, I keep my iPhones for a very long time. I've been on a 4-year upgrade cycle (and as mentioned, likely extending to 5 years with the 12 Pro Max), so I do want to have something I'll be happy with for that period. Even if I just get one of those main upgrades: 24 MP FaceTime camera or 48 MP telephoto camera, that IMO would be enough justification for the wait. 12 GB RAM would be a bonus too, although I'm not sure I'd benefit from that as much as some other people. The mechanical aperture also sounds interesting, but I'm a little more skeptical on that one.

BTW, the 17 series is rumoured to be the "supercycle" line, not the 16 series. Even with all the 16 Pro/Max hype for Apple Intelligence, many of those AI features aren't out anyway until late this year or some time next year, and even when they do get released, they will be released in limited regions. At that point, you may as well just wait a few more months until the new 17 series is out.