Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[Eug]

Not gonna hate on the assumption that a mac user would solely rely on youtube for software recommendations, but that is not me. I'm a sw engineer by education and trade, I use windows and linux professionally, and mac/windows/linux/ipados/android personally. I know how to find software. Also I feel like I should get some benefit of the doubt for being a forum user of any sort in the year 2024, let alone anand.

I was exaggerating a bit but getting my m3 mbp working as I would expect with two non-"hidpi" monitors (mirroring dummy higher resolution displays to trick the OS into doing font smoothing) and using non-apple peripherals (3rd party apps to override default mouse acceleration, scroll wheel behavior) was a major pain.

Apple's removal of sub-pixel anti-aliasing support still irritates me to this day.

Yeah, for $$$$ you can buy "Retina" displays, but I'm not a huge fan of Apple's default pixel densities for running at 2X/4X resolution. Apple specs 218 ppi for its desktop monitors (Studio Display, Pro Display XDR) but IMO that is too high with their default font sizing in macOS. Unless you choose non-2:1 resolutions, it makes the text sizing smaller than I'd prefer. I'd actually much prefer a pixel density of roughly 200 ppi.

Ironically, 200 ppi would be doubling/quadrupling of the pixel density of Apple's previous pro displays. The 30" Cinema HD Display is 101 ppi, at it looked good with sub-pixel anti-aliasing. My desired "Retina" monitor would be a 30" 202 ppi Studio Display with HDR support.

 

[poke01]

using non-apple peripherals (3rd party apps to override default mouse acceleration, scroll wheel behavior) was a major pain.

yeah I use this app that solves this issue. its free

Scroll Reverser

Per-device scrolling preferences for MacOS.

pilotmoon.com

I was exaggerating a bit but getting my m3 mbp working as I would expect with two non-"hidpi" monitors

Have a look at this app. Its good for these sorts of things, listed below. Hope it helps. Its free too.

GitHub - ZhipingYang/BetterDummy: Software Dummy Display Adapter for Apple Silicon/Intel Macs to Have Custom HiDPI Resolutions.

Software Dummy Display Adapter for Apple Silicon/Intel Macs to Have Custom HiDPI Resolutions. - ZhipingYang/BetterDummy

github.com

Advantages of BetterDummy over a physical 4K HDMI dummy plug or mirroring your internal display:

• Your HDMI port will remain usable for an other display on the Mac Mini
• Your internal screen will be available as an extended space on a MacBook (or you can use clamshell mode).
• Does not suffer from issues that prevalent with the physical dummy (like jittery mouse cursor).
• Offers a much wider range of HiDPI and standard resolutions.
• Works with all aspect ratios, does not depend on what resoluations are recorded in the dummy's EDID/firmware.
• Available instantly.

Some other uses:

• The app is useful for anybody who is not satisfied with the offered default HiDPI resolutions offered by macOS.
• Use headless Macs (servers) with any resolution and HiDPI mode for remote access.
• Scale Sidecar resolutions.
• Better quality zooming (System Preferences»Accessibility»Zoom) or High Quality screenshots even on 1080p displays.
• You can use it instead of or alongside other apps that create custom native resolutions.

Or this too.

GitHub - waydabber/BetterDisplay: Unlock your displays on your Mac! Flexible HiDPI scaling, XDR/HDR extra brightness, virtual screens, DDC control, extra dimming, PIP/streaming, EDID override and lots more!

Unlock your displays on your Mac! Flexible HiDPI scaling, XDR/HDR extra brightness, virtual screens, DDC control, extra dimming, PIP/streaming, EDID override and lots more! - waydabber/BetterDisplay

github.com

I do agree that macOS lacks many QoL features by default but once you configured via third party apps most things are fine. I'm very grateful to these devs.

 

[igor_kavinski]

so you can get M chips under different conditions.

M1 is the cheapest option right now and fanless. Snapdragon fails in both of those departments. Don't have much hope of Mediatek being able to accomplish much when it comes to low price and high performance. The M1 just seems like any beginner computer user's best first companion, minus Apple's reality distortion field and ecosystem.

 

[Doug S]

You still have never said why Snapdragon X Elite doesn’t answer your call. The upcoming version sounds like everything you are asking for, let alone Lunar Lake.

Then there’s Mediatek coming with yet another innovative large cache top-level out of order powered SOC with Nvidia graphics. It seems like a great time to not worry about Apple Silicon since you don’t like the business model, the hardware or the OS. Why aren’t you swooning to the powerful, power efficient sweet siren song of Snapdragon.

Oh how you hurt the feelings of Gerard Williams and John Bruno. All the strain and sweat to lead the development of performant, efficient chips that run Windows. Then they come onto Anandtech forums to relax and unwind only to see you forsake their efforts and continue to hope for Apple to completely upend its multi trillion dollar business model so you can get M chips under different conditions.

The day after they present what they must feel are tremendous achievements, no less. Your posts here today must be like shivs in their hearts.

Because he likes to tilt at windmills and swim against the current. He's just using this as a way to bitch about Apple. If he really cared about this he'd be in the Qualcomm forum complaining about how they don't meet most of his list either (soldered SoC, soldered RAM, I presume no user installable HSF) But hey its got Windows drivers, so there's that!

 

[igor_kavinski]

If he really cared about this he'd be in the Qualcomm forum complaining about how they don't meet most of his list either (soldered SoC, soldered RAM, I presume no user installable HSF) But hey its got Windows drivers, so there's that!

Their RAM up to 64GB is affordable even for me and they have user upgradable SSD. It's only their immaturity as a platform that is preventing me from jumping onboard. And no idea how long Microsoft will be in bed with them. Microsoft's previous partners regret any partnerships with them (Sega, Nokia). But I do believe that QC has a bigger chance of making my wishes come true. It's just that they will be the number 2 SoC. Not No.1 which would kinda hurt my feelings as an enthusiast. There's Mediatek/Nvidia but I don't expect anything groundbreaking from them, other than cool tech demos from Nvidia.

 

[mvprod123]

Apple’s iPad mini 7 Maintains A Solid Framerate Of Nearly 60FPS In Two Gaming Titles In Latest Test, Despite Its A17 Pro Featuring One Less GPU Core

In the latest gaming test, two titles are tested on the iPad mini 7, and the compact tablet delivers solid performance while sporting a slower A17 Pro

wccftech.com

 

[Eug]

Because he likes to tilt at windmills and swim against the current. He's just using this as a way to bitch about Apple. If he really cared about this he'd be in the Qualcomm forum complaining about how they don't meet most of his list either (soldered SoC, soldered RAM, I presume no user installable HSF) But hey its got Windows drivers, so there's that!

Interesting:

Arm cancels Qualcomm's license to use its chip design standards

Arm has given Qualcomm 60 days to use its chip design standards, which could cause a huge disruption to the latter's business.

www.engadget.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Interesting:

Arm cancels Qualcomm's license to use its chip design standards

Arm has given Qualcomm 60 days to use its chip design standards, which could cause a huge disruption to the latter's business.

www.engadget.com

I doubt that US courts will side with ARM...

 

[Nothingness]

The thing with macs and macos is it's the best computing platform in the world if you grew up with macs or if your usage happens to align exactly to how apple thinks you should use a computer and you operate entirely within their ecosystem.

If you deviate from that even an inch, the options are one of:

• you used to be able to change that with a terminal command but they removed it in 10.whatever
• you can do that, there's a $14.99 app, and it has a fun name referencing food that has no relation to its function
• no you can't do that and you should feel bad for trying

Coming from 35 years of UNIX, I had few issues when switching to macOS a few months ago.

OTOH I have never been able to properly use/tweak/fix Windows, despite having it on my PCs for 25 years. Well except for launching games, which is why I like to call it a gaming OS (which it is for me).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Coming from 35 years of UNIX

You must be a legend in your circles!

 

[Eug]

^^ Heh. A friend of mine was a Unix admin for a large international IT company. This was a long time ago, in the earlier OS X days: I handed him my Mac and he immediately knew how to use it, despite not being familiar with OS X at all. However, in truth, he didn't really interact that much with the OS X GUI, as he was doing everything at the command line. Anyhow, he bought a Mac shortly after that.

 

[igor_kavinski]

OTOH I have never been able to properly use/tweak/fix Windows, despite having it on my PCs for 25 years.

I only know how coz trying to run games forced me to learn MSDOS and then Windows 3.1/95/98 forced me to pay attention to hardware (why is my CDROM copying so slow?? What happens if I turn on this DMA option under IDE settings? Oh wow! 30 minutes copy time reduced to 5 minutes!).

The more you are desperate to do something, the more you learn I guess.

 

[Nothingness]

You must be a legend in your circles!

No, I am just closer to retirement than most in my circles 😁

 

[igor_kavinski]

No, I am just closer to retirement than most in my circles 😁

Give us a cool benchmark before you retire!

 

[Nothingness]

^^ Heh. A friend of mine was a Unix admin for a large international IT company. This was a long time ago, in the earlier OS X days: I handed him my Mac and he immediately knew how to use it, despite not being familiar with OS X at all. However, in truth, he didn't really interact that much with the OS X GUI, as he was doing everything at the command line. Anyhow, he bought a Mac shortly after that.

That's exactly what happened to me. When I get lost, I can open a terminal and be presented with a shell and commands I'm familiar with.

My main issue is to remember to properly use cut and paste instead of relying on the middle button of my mouse 😅

 

[Nothingness]

Give us a cool benchmark before you retire!

Wait for SPECv8.

 

[Mopetar]

To get the Mac SoC power efficient experience without struggling with the awful Mac UI.

Hush you. I know you're not being serious but statements like that are going to make people think you crawled out from under the wrong side of the bridge this morning.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I know you're not being serious

You would know how serious I am if you saw me struggling with MacOS.

 

[poke01]

You would know how serious I am if you saw me struggling with MacOS.

If you struggle with macOS, I can’t imagine you using Gnome, which is pretty bare bones compared to macOS.

 

[igor_kavinski]

If you struggle with macOS, I can’t imagine you using Gnome, which is pretty bare bones compared to macOS.

I managed to survive Ubuntu, PopOS and ClearLinux but MacOS gives me fits. I feel ill after using it for a while then have to close the Macbook lid to breathe and recuperate.

 

[poke01]

I managed to survive Ubuntu, PopOS and ClearLinux but MacOS gives me fits. I feel ill after using it for a while then have to close the Macbook lid to breathe and recuperate.

Lol. I feel like that when using Gnome.

 

[Nothingness]

Lol. I feel like that when using Gnome.

Gnome3 is an abomination. If you don't add a dozen of extensions it is just plain horrible.

 

[mvprod123]

A funny part of the AMD Ryzen 9900 review by Geekerwan, where the processor was overclocked under the influence of nitrogen to beat the M4 in SPEC tests. We can only imagine how exciting the M4 Ultra will be.

 

[Eug]

A funny part of the AMD Ryzen 9900 review by Geekerwan, where the processor was overclocked under the influence of nitrogen to beat the M4 in SPEC tests. We can only imagine how exciting the M4 Ultra will be.

...while wearing an  Park shirt.

 

[The Hardcard]

You would know how serious I am if you saw me struggling with MacOS.

I hope you find a way to have a UI that works for you, but trying to make macOS work more like Windows would force me to declare war if I thought you had a reasonable chance. I have a lot of issues with macOS and iOS, but nearly all of my preferred solutions involve moving farther away from Windows, not closer.

My ideal UI would be a modernized Nextstep. I liked using KDE Plasma and when I am ready to add Linux back to my mix. But, Windows UI is severely inferior to me, starting with how much I dislike every window having it’s own menubar. I also greatly prefer Terminal to every Windows CLI, though I haven’t had time to try WSL yet.

The one Windows feature I want is Explorer breadcrumbs. You can keep the taskbar and Start Menu.