Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[Doug S]

As I said, 18 GB packages are a thing (144 Gb = 18 GB). They are made using six 24 Gbit dies. 6 x 24 = 144.

AFAIK, 18 Gbit dies are not a thing.

The only reason I could see a reason for 18 Gbit DRAMs to exist is to implement some type of ECC or tagged memory implemented by bursting an extra cycle for every eight into memory controllers or caches that are designed to handle it. Maybe some embedded systems do something like this?

 

[Eug]

A17/M3 isn't their best work. It is a skip generation despite being on a new node. I know that offends consumers on principle but people are comparing M1/M2 to M3 and it isn't compelling unless you spend $5k on a laptop.

While I understand they were designed as "chop" chips, M1 Pro and M2 Pro never made much sense to me from a market segmentation point of view. For those chips, the CPU performance of the full M1 Pro and M2 Pro is exactly the same as M1 Max and M2 Max respectively. (I'm not counting the binned variants.)

For the M3 Family, they finally truly differentiated the chips in this regard. They still bin them, but the tiers make more sense now.

M1 Pro: 8-10 core (2+6 or 2+8)
M1 Max: 10 core (2+8)
M1 Ultra: 20 core (4+16)

M2 Pro: 10-12 core (4+6 or 4+8)
M2 Max: 12 core (4+8)
M2 Ultra: 24 core (8+16)

M3 Pro: 11-12 core (6+5 or 6+6)
M3 Max: 14-16 core (4+10 or 4+12)
M3 Ultra: Up to 32 core (8+24)?

M3 Ultra is gonna rock ...for those who need and can make use of all that CPU performance that is. Roughly equivalent to the hypothetical M2 Extreme that people complained they couldn't get.

 

[thunng8]

New results here

Mac15,5 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac15,5 with an Apple M3 processor.

browser.geekbench.com

Mac15,9 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac15,9 with an Apple M3 Max processor.

browser.geekbench.com

multicore of 21,560 beats out the top end AMD 7950x (20k) and only marginally behind the Intel 14900k (approx 22k).

 

[Mopetar]

Considering the differences in power use, nipping at the heels of a 14900K is hardly a thing to be ashamed of.

It is kind of funny how Apple not managing to be on top (or not delivering quite as much of an uplift as previously) is viewed as a failure when they've been in the business of making desktop and notebook chips for how long exactly?

The scary part will be if (or maybe even just when) their team does hit one out of the park again. Do we go from talking about when other ARM manufacturers will catch up to Apple to when the x86 manufacturers will catch up to Apple?

 

[poke01]

Yes but not really M3 Pro is even more of a skip than M2 Pro. At least M2 Pro was a straightforward improvement over its predecessor.

we'll see about M3 Pro. But M3 and M3 Max are better judging from core counts alone.
There is also RT in M3 but I think only Pro and Max will have good RT.

 

[poke01]

blender

The official Blender project repository.

projects.blender.org

Blender v4.0 has been delayed to 14th Nov.

 

[poke01]

only marginally behind the Intel 14900k (approx 22k).

thats crazy I doubt 14900k can even handle thin laptops

 

[trivik12]

we'll see about M3 Pro. But M3 and M3 Max are better judging from core counts alone.
There is also RT in M3 but I think only Pro and Max will have good RT.

M3 Max is available only with base 48GB memory and costs like 4 grand with tax

 

[poke01]

M3 Max is available only with base 48GB memory and costs like 4 grand with tax

Yeah that’s a lot. No student or video editor needs a 4K laptop.

That’s more for 3D artists and scientists etc. it’s a prosumer laptop.

 

[igor_kavinski]

$200 discounts: https://www.tomshardware.com/laptops/macbooks/apples-new-m3-macs-discounted-just-days-after-launch

 

[Mopetar]

I wouldn't be surprised if even the base M3 does well enough with video editing given an application that makes use of the built-in hardware encoders/decoders and other stuff Apple put on their SoCs.

The M1 Max MBP that I have doesn't even break a sweat when editing in Final Cut. Maybe if I were working with much higher resolutions or layering on a bunch of effects, but anyone doing that kind of work can justify a $5K machine if it makes them more productive.

 

[Eug]

I wouldn't be surprised if even the base M3 does well enough with video editing given an application that makes use of the built-in hardware encoders/decoders and other stuff Apple put on their SoCs.

The M1 Max MBP that I have doesn't even break a sweat when editing in Final Cut. Maybe if I were working with much higher resolutions or layering on a bunch of effects, but anyone doing that kind of work can justify a $5K machine if it makes them more productive.

I was talking to some pros who make documentaries and TV commercials, etc., and some edited on Intel MacBook Pros until at least last year.

However, they often worked in 1080p, and almost never work in higher than 4K, unless the client specifically asked for it. However, I would imagine that for >4K, they would just use proxies to maintain performance, and perhaps used proxies for 4K too.

What people (like me) sometimes forget is that a lot of content simply doesn't need 8K, 6K or even 4K footage. (Good 1080p footage is better than mediocre 4K footage.) What Apple is arguably building in the M3 Max MacBook Pros is the ability to edit directly in 8K without proxies, but that's kinda overkill for many pros out there in 2023 and 2024.

BTW, Everything Everywhere All At Once was edited on an Intel iMac from long before Apple Silicon, and Star Trek: Discovery was edited on a trash can Mac Pro.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1242119299055026176

 

[poke01]

Mac15,6 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac15,6 with an Apple M3 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

M3 Pro +4 MT uplift over M2 Pro due to 6+6 config. On the upside efficiency should be better but there is no reason to upgrade from M2 Pro at all.

Only the M3 and M3 Max had huge gains, mainly the Max.

 

[Eug]

Mac15,6 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac15,6 with an Apple M3 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

M3 Pro +4 MT uplift over M2 Pro due to 6+6 config. On the upside efficiency should be better but there is no reason to upgrade from M2 Pro at all.

Only the M3 and M3 Max had huge gains, mainly the Max.

FWIW, for those who are not already aware: M3 Pro has fewer transistors than M2 Pro, at 37 billion vs. 40 billion respectively.

 

[Henry swagger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720909967375425643

Apple is under pressure from amd intel and now Qualcomm.. sales are gonna be even lower

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720909967375425643

Apple is under pressure from amd intel and now Qualcomm.. sales are gonna be even lower

Apple can always gift me their fully decked out M3 Max laptop. In return, I'll pray for their success.

"May Apple be bought out by a consortium of investors led by Elon Musk".

Coz you know, people on Mars gonna need Apple laptops.

 

[FlameTail]

FWIW, for those who are not already aware: M3 Pro has fewer transistors than M2 Pro, at 37 billion vs. 40 billion respectively.

It's rumoured Apple will bring the M3 Pro chip to the iPad Pro.

It all makes sense now...

The cost cutting on the Pro version.

 

[jeanlain]

Apple is under pressure from amd intel and now Qualcomm.. sales are gonna be even lower

We need to look at the larger picture. Were sales particularly high for the same quarter last year? What is the overall trend? I believe that the Apple Silicon Macs have been quite successful. Many users have switched from intel and see no reason to upgrade. My M1-Pro MacBook Pro will last many years.

All in all, I'm not aware that the Mac marker share is declining.

 

[Ajay]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720909967375425643

Apple is under pressure from amd intel and now Qualcomm.. sales are gonna be even lower

Not really. Apple sells devices - not CPUs. Apples and Oranges.

 

[GC2:CS]

It's rumoured Apple will bring the M3 Pro chip to the iPad Pro.

It all makes sense now...

The cost cutting on the Pro version.

Honestly this seems insane.

iPad Pro is sought to get oled display drastically decreasing weight and thickness. (And increase price by hundreds of dollars)

The basic M chips can draw in excess of 20 W under load which is way over the limits of an iPad or even a passivelly cooled Mac Book.
The M Pro goes over 40W.

While Apple silicon is super power efficient the power draw keeps growing. We are way past the days of 0,5W for full GPU load (on an iPhone 4). Thus having larger SoCs might be irellevant as it is strictly thermally limited. iPad also has much smaller battery than Mac Books.
However I can imagine Apple doing this for bragging rights AND having fans pay 6k$ for fully speced M3Pro 14 oled iPad.

 

[FlameTail]

Honestly this seems insane.

iPad Pro is sought to get oled display drastically decreasing weight and thickness. (And increase price by hundreds of dollars)

The basic M chips can draw in excess of 20 W under load which is way over the limits of an iPad or even a passivelly cooled Mac Book.
The M Pro goes over 40W.

While Apple silicon is super power efficient the power draw keeps growing. We are way past the days of 0,5W for full GPU load (on an iPhone 4). Thus having larger SoCs might be irellevant as it is strictly thermally limited. iPad also has much smaller battery than Mac Books.
However I can imagine Apple doing this for bragging rights AND having fans pay 6k$ for fully speced M3Pro 14 oled iPad.

It seems they are going after Windows tablets now.

Android tablets are in the rear view mirror.

 

[FlameTail]

Android tablets are in the rear view mirror

Unless Snapdragon X can change that.

The next iteration of the Samsung Galaxy Tab S Ultra is rumoured to get the Snapdragon X Elite SoC.

 

[Mopetar]

The basic M chips can draw in excess of 20 W under load which is way over the limits of an iPad or even a passivelly cooled Mac Book.
The M Pro goes over 40W.

It's probably safe to bet they won't let it pull the much power. If anything, they'll use a separate bin specifically for the iPad. The biggest reason for using a Pro is the extra memory bandwidth.

Maybe there are some power users who can put a lot of stress on their iPad, but even the iPad Pro models would be fine with the phone SoC. I forget whether Inhave a first or second generation model, but even the older A-series SoC keeps up fine with anything I'm doing.

Maybe they'll eventually let some models run in a full blown OS X mode instead of having to always run the tablet OS.

 

[trivik12]

M3 Max is going to be niche. That is why they are putting it in $3800 plus tax plus device. Since its so big and pricy the volume will be low and so they can take the risk. Base M3/M3 Pro are the mass market devices for this year. Especially once they update MBA with these chips in Q1. There is a reason why they started with expensive laptops.

 

[Tigerick]

M3 Max is going to be niche. That is why they are putting it in $3800 plus tax plus device. Since its so big and pricy the volume will be low and so they can take the risk. Base M3/M3 Pro are the mass market devices for this year. Especially once they update MBA with these chips in Q1. There is a reason why they started with expensive laptops.

I don't think MBA lineup will get the M3 upgrade so soon; iPad Pro with OLED most likely will get M3 in Q1 next year. Now that MBP14 has featured M3 with 8GB of RAM , there is little incentives for Apple to upgrade MBA lineup to M3 with 8GB RAM. I think Apple will wait until M4 comes out before even considering update the MBA to M3; and based on my estimate that could happen end of next year. Hopefully, we will see M4 with 12GB of RAM by that time.