Apple v. Samsung Jury Decision.

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PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
Heh, that's interesting news. I was on a jury once and I swear sometimes I wish I had a professor to explain the law and instructions to me. There was very little to no opportunity for the juror to ask for clarification on "what does this line of the law mean". Mostly because it seems that "interpretation of the law" is up to what the lawyers try to paint them as.

Just reading the instructions for prior art (in the link) is enough for my eyes to gloss over. Without help, I'd also have problems trying to figure out what the legal test for prior art would be.

Ir proves my point that even a pure idiot can obtain a software patent.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
I don't get all of the flag waiving and team mentality in this thread. Even as a person that owns and enjoys several Apple products I think a lot of Apple's tactics recently leave a bad taste in my mouth. That being said, Apple is a corporation working in their best interest. They are also working withing the framework of the laws and patent system in place in THIS country. I think what people are missing in their emotional responses to the verdict is that what this case illustrates is the need to move the patent system into the 21st century. If you think Apple is the only one that will be using the courts to further their corporate agenda then I would say pull up a chair and wait for what is coming in future months. A precedent has been set and it will now be exploited without mercy. In the end the consumer will pay the price despite what "side" they have taken.
 

PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
In one sense, all theories of distributive justice claim that everyone should get what they deserve. Theories disagree on the basis for deserving. The main distinction is between theories that argue the basis of just deserts is held equally by everyone, and therefore derive egalitarian accounts of distributive justice—and theories that argue the basis of just deserts is unequally distributed on the basis of, for instance, hard work, and therefore derive accounts of distributive justice by which some should have more than others. This section deals with some popular theories of the second type.

the current software patent system contravene any existing theory on distributive justice.
 

PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
I don't get all of the flag waiving and team mentality in this thread. Even as a person that owns and enjoys several Apple products I think a lot of Apple's tactics recently leave a bad taste in my mouth. That being said, Apple is a corporation working in their best interest. They are also working withing the framework of the laws and patent system in place in THIS country. I think what people are missing in their emotional responses to the verdict is that what this case illustrates is the need to move the patent system into the 21st century. If you think Apple is the only one that will be using the courts to further their corporate agenda then I would say pull up a chair and wait for what is coming in future months. A precedent has been set and it will now be exploited without mercy. In the end the consumer will pay the price despite what "side" they have taken.

Asian companies don't use patents to gain monopoly, American companies do.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Asian companies don't use patents to gain monopoly, American companies do.

Honestly I couldn't say if that is true or not. I imagine Asian companies have a number of patents in the US that they are willing to defend if infringed upon.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
I still don't understand why Samsung didn't have these idiot Apple Fanboy jurors removed. Can somebody please explain that to me? Why did Samsung find the jury satisfactory?
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
I still don't understand why Samsung didn't have these idiot Apple Fanboy jurors removed. Can somebody please explain that to me? Why did Samsung find the jury satisfactory?

I think the jury were just idiots, not fanboys. The judge on the other hand, I'm not too sure about.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
I still don't understand why Samsung didn't have these idiot Apple Fanboy jurors removed. Can somebody please explain that to me? Why did Samsung find the jury satisfactory?

I know this is sarcasm but have you seen the Samsung lawyers? They are incompetent. I think the appeal process will go like this:

US Judge: So, why are you appealing this ruling?
Samsung CEO: We didn't know our own lawyers would be so incompetent, Your Honor. We didn't know.
US Judge: Let counsel speak for you, Sir,.
Samsung CEO: We didn't know.
US Judge: This is your final warning. Let your counsel speak or I will kick you out of my courtroom.
Samsung Lawyers: Judge, do you take cash or checks?
US Judge: Out, all of you.
 

PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
Japan's former deficiency in semiconductor technology
led MITI to organize an effort to reduce the gap:
“Japan began attempting to promote the semiconductor
industry through subsidized and government-encouraged
collaborative research, especially the famous very
large scale integration program.”15 This project arranged
for disparate firms to work together for maximum efficiency
by not duplicating each others' efforts, provided
heavy protection from competition from outside firms,
and took advantage of “the openness of the U.S. semiconductor
industry to foreign investment” to introduce
exogenous sources of technology.16 As a result, Japan
reached a level equivalent to or beyond that of the U.S.
By 1987, the U.S. Department of Defense found that
Japan held the lead in twelve of 24 major categories of
semiconductor technology, with a 50% share of the
world market, up from 30% a decade earlier.17
Since then, however, the Japanese edge in semiconductors
has declined, raising questions concerning the
appropriateness of continued MITI involvement. This
involvement has accordingly fallen off: “Japanese semiconductor
makers [are] able to achieve, even at best, a
20% profit rate on their sales,” while the industry
standard is around 35%.18 Furthermore, “Japan's R&D
projects display a decline in the government's interventionist
capabilities as the country's computer and semiconductor
industry dramatically moves from industry
follower to technological pioneer.”19 Only time may tell if
this step will lead to a rebound in the semiconductor
industry.
Patent Mischief
By gathering multiple groups in the semiconductor
field and encouraging cooperation, MITI temporarily
hastened progress by reducing the inefficiencies inherent
in redundant research. Yet in the long run, this strategy
proved to reduce innovation. Because each firm's breakthroughs
were instantly accessible to its competitors, the
incentives to create additional such breakthroughs
diminished, harming the enterprise in the long term.
The problem of protecting innovation is not new, and
has long been resolved via patents and other intellectual
property protections that give the inventor of a new scientific
process exclusive rights to use or license it for a
fixed period of time. There is an inherent tradeoff in any
patent system between the short-term gains due to wide
availability of technology and the long-term gains due
to innovation that accrue from strong intellectual property
rights; the longer the time period, the more longterm
innovation, but also the more short-term inefficiency.
To a much greater extent than the U.S. and most
other industrialized countries, Japan has systematically
favored the former objective, preferring to avoid the
short-term inefficiencies of each firm reinventing the
wheel. The Japan Patent Office openly cautions against
people or firms “needlessly spend[ing] resources in order
to invent the same thing” as a product already developed.
20 Japanese patents are cited more on average than
U.S. patents, suggesting that the weaker patents were
unable to make it through the system in the first place.21
While the Japanese government theoretically needs
permission from a firm to distribute its technology to
avoid violating its private property rights, in practice
MITI is sufficiently powerful, and the government-industry
connections are so close, that the firm would be hardpressed
to avoid giving at least conditional approval:22
“ndustries are valued for the knowledge they generate
as much as the products they produce.”23 MITI wants to
take full advantage of that knowledge, although the fact
that Japan no longer needs to play catch-up has led to a
partial reassessment of this strategy.


Couldn't find what I was looking for though
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91

Yes, Japan has a much higher involvement of government within industry. Japan also does not have many other business restrictions in place such as rules on bank involvement with corporations (look at the Sony bank for example). Your post illustrates different business rules and philosophies, it does not however say that Asian companies do not aggressively pursue patents with the US in other industries.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91

I told you to say no more. Government-sponsored collaberation means no patent conflicts BETWEEN THOSE COLLABERATING. Furthermore, the government's intention was to be a world-beater by pooling resources. As made obvious, this path has serious flaws. Nevertheless, all this is besides the point. It in no way backs up your point.
 

PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
If someone invents something in the West, there are few problems in the Eastern line of thinking to create a replica product much like Samsung has. This is perhaps why there are so many knock-off goods are created in the East to be sold in the West and other parts of the world. And because of our individualistic culture here in the West and the individualistic patent laws we apply, law enforcement has tried endlessly to crack down on these types of operations. Essentially, in the East, what’s mine is more so yours, and in the West, what’s mine more so is not yours.

Wasn't what I was looking for, but Google blows.


Edit to remove profanity
PlatinumRice, this is a technical forum so please keep the profanity to a minimum.

Moderator PM
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Wasn't what I was looking for, but Google blows.

Google blows because reality does not fit your fantasy? You are delusional. The fact is, with the exception of Japan, the east is still developing and has not caught up with the west. That is why they copy.


Edited post to remove profanity
Infraction for insulting another member.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
Couldn't find what I was looking for, but the myth that South Korea is only copying is completely false. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been granted more U.S. patent than Germany.
 

PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
http://www.economist.com/node/21561888

The dispute between Apple and Samsung is less over how the devices work and more over their look and feel. At issue are features like the ability to zoom into an image with a double finger tap, pinching gestures, and the visual “rubber band” effect when you scroll to the end of a page. The case even extends to whether the device and its on-screen icons are allowed to have rounded corners. To be sure, some of these things were terrific improvements over what existed before the iPhone’s arrival, but to award a monopoly right to finger gestures and rounded rectangles is to stretch the definition of “novel” and “non-obvious” to breaking-point.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Couldn't find what I was looking for, but the myth that South Korea is only copying is completely false. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been granted more U.S. patent than Germany.

I am having a hard time understanding your point. First it is evil American companies abusing the patent system and now Samsung has more US patents than Germany (the country?). Are you saying Samsung is not willing to pursue infringement of these patents? My understanding is that Samsung has more mobile space patents than Apple does considering they actually make much of the technology inside a great number of phones including the iPhone. Samsung has already said they will sue if Apple releases a LTE phone.
 

PlatinumRice

Senior member
Aug 26, 2012
241
0
0
I am having a hard time understanding your point. First it is evil American companies abusing the patent system and now Samsung has more US patents than Germany (the country?). Are you saying Samsung is not willing to pursue infringement of these patents? My understanding is that Samsung has more mobile space patents than Apple does considering they actually make much of the technology inside a great number of phones including the iPhone. Samsung has already said they will sue if Apple releases a LTE phone.

they retaliate only to dissuade others to sue them, but they try to stay away from courts.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
that's what i read on an american article some years ago. right now, i am trying to find that article.

I don't need the article, I find it credible that there are cultural differences that influence the way different companies do business. However, Samsung and the rest of the major Asian players in the market have smart people as well. I would say you will see them adapt rather quickly to the ground rules that have been laid out before them in short order. I don't see it benefiting me as a consumer necessarily but that is the system as it is now.
 
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