- Apr 24, 2013
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When applying this TIM do you paint the tim on the heat spreader only or do you paint it on the heat spreader and the base of the heatsink/waterblock as well?
Well Im not going to go as far as delidding and applying it right on the die. I will just thinly paint the IHS and that + a d15 should be enough to run 5ghz kaby lake comfortably. I don't think ill put so much that it drips off the IHS so nothing should short.
Yea as long as i can hit 5ghz and max out in the 70's I'm happy with that. Thats crazy 680 dollars for a 5.2ghz 7700k. For 700 I might as well get 6 core 6850k with 40x pci-e. Plus those are soldered on and can probably OC to like 4.8ghz no prob. Serious retards spending that on a 7700k for an extra 100-200 mhz
For 700 I might as well get 6 core 6850k with 40x pci-e. Plus those are soldered on and can probably OC to like 4.8ghz no prob.
its 700 dollars for a 5.2ghz binned 7700k. I think like 680 than+ 50 to delid so 730 total. I would rather buy a 6850k thats soldered on and have a 6 core and 40 pci-e lanes than pay for that one. People gotta be stupid to do that.
It;s like 65% success rate on 5.0 ghz according to silicon lottery's stats. I'd just get a retail unit from microcenter on a deal for like 300-330 and take my chance they are pretty good. Tho the delid cost of 50 dollars isn't bad. They say it improves temps by a solid 10C or more by repasting it with CLU. Maybe getting like a 5.1ghz binned one would make the 5.0ghz run at a lower voltage so delidding wont be needed. Spend the extra 50 on a higher binned cpu and just CLU it to a d15 and be able to turn down the voltage a bit and just go for 5.0ghz. Only like 23% of chips binned to 5.1ghz and only 4% binned to 5.2ghz
Here's a question . . . Doctor . . . LordX . . . The problem with CLU and possibly even Indigo Xtreme is that the gallium or indium or whatever bonds with the copper, less so with the nickel. for that reason, I've abjured using it, because it means difficulty and greater risk just removing the HSF from the IHS.I have applied CLU many times to both copper and nickel surfaces. DO NOT USE CLU ON ANY HSF/BASE THAT HAS EXPOSED ALUMINUM ELEMENTS. The same technique works in either case:
1). Get a cheap dollar-store paint brush set. Select a single brush and use some sharp scissors to cut the bristles short. As short as you can get, really. You don't want there to be any horizontal play. When you are finished with the brush, throw it away. You won't want to re-use it later.
2). Install the CPU in the socket.
3). Put a tiny - TINY - amount of CLU on the center of the IHS (or die if you're going naked) and start spreading it out with vertical or horizontal brush strokes. Be concise in your movements. Start from the inside and brush out. If you have a tube of CLU that you've already used, you may find residue clinging to the end cap from where the tube has leaked in various places. It's okay (and often wise) to scavenge CLU with the brush from those locations, preferably before there is any CLU on the brush, though doing it with a stained brush is okay too.
4). Repeat your brush strokes until you can no longer coat any more of the IHS/die surface. Place smaller-than-what-you-used-originally amounts of CLU near the edges of the coated area, and use brush strokes along the edges of the coated area to start spreading it. Then progressively move closer to the IHS/die.
If you're having problems reducing the size of the application, one option is to "dip" the bristles of the brush directly into the aperature of the syringe; alternatively, you can repeat scavenging efforts around the cap or around the end of the syringe itself.
5). Repeat 4 until the entire IHS/die is coated.
6). Take a coffee filter, turn it upside-down so that it forms a dome that can stand on its own, and put it over the CPU/socket.
Repeat 3-5 for the base of the HSF/water block. Then mount the HSF/block fairly quickly after removing the coffee filter "dome".
As an aside, you will find that it takes longer to get CLU to spread on a nickel surface, but you can spread it a bit further per unit mass initially applied since it doesn't cling to the surface as readily as it will a copper surface. It loves copper. Oh yes it does . . .
Depends on the particle size. I would think it would increase effective bondline thickness if you mixed in that stuff, though I could be wrong. One of the attractions of using CLU is the incredibly thin bondline thickness possible when using it. Copper -> copper bonding is pretty hard to break once the CLU sinks into both surfaces, but hey, at least you know you have good contact.
If there's a nickel surface involved, it doesn't really stick that hard.
1) Q-tips are dusty. You definitely don't want to use standard Q-tips with liquid metal TIM. The ones that come with Liquid Pro aren't dusty but they can shed big threads.
3) You'll have to lap the parts if you take apart the bond so be ready with 2000 grit or better paper, a piece of glass, and a willingness to lap.
4) Whatever brush you use to apply the stuff shouldn't shed or have any sort of material coating the bristles that will come off. Sometimes brushes are coated/sprayed and need to be cleaned prior to use.
5) Liquid Pro likes to form little beads and they roll around all over.
6) Don't use the syringe anywhere near your motherboard. I've had Liquid Pro shoot 3 feet or more through the air coming out of the syringe with a gentle press. My suggestion is to let it "explode" into a fresh plastic garbage bad so you can use the brush from the material that ends up on that plastic surface. Don't try to have it come out of the syringe onto the chip or you could end up with a big mess.
7) Worrying about thickness of application is less important, in terms of heat bottlenecking, than with polymer TIM. Liquid metal TIM has a vastly better thermal conductivity so it's not as big of an issue if it's thicker. This one reason why applying it to both the spreader and the block isn't a big no-no. Just don't have so much excess that it will drop beads onto your board. Consistent contact is more important than layer thinness with liquid metal TIM.
But the purpose of this only would be weakening the amalgamation or bonding
OP was talking about CLU, nor CL Pro. Pro behaves differently. If I recall, the most popular method of spreading it was with the tip of a syringe.
Since the main corruptive ingredient in both CLU and CL Pro is gallium, I'm going to have to disagree here. You don't have to lap anything, and 2000 grit silicon carbide sandpaper will barely put a dent in the gallium surface corruption anyway. I remember trying to "lap out" the greyed metal on my nh-d14 with 400-grit sandpaper and I barely put a dent in it. I gave up on that.
Anyway when removing and re-pasting a copper surface that has been corrupted by CLU (or Pro), just scrub it down with coffee filters and 91% or better Isopropyl alcohol. You'll notice the coffee filters blackening as you scrub. Keep it up until a fresh filter + alcohol doesn't turn black very much. Then you're okay.
You might have slightly-degraded performance using the corrupted surface with a non-metal TIM, but probably not, and I have had no issues remounting sinks after several uses of CLU.
The cheap ones have no coatings, at least in my experience.
Yeah, that's why I don't use Pro . . . CLU behaves very well, overall. Just don't let it get on anything you like. It stains everything. Even vinyl.
Bondline thickness is always important. CLU only has a W/mK of . . . 32.7 I think? Anyway it's much better than standard TIM, but it isn't perfect. Ideally there wouldn't be a TIM there at all, if we could get away with it.
I would think you'd have to salt the TIM pretty thoroughly with powder to significantly interfere with metal bonding. Who knows, it might even improve the performance of the TIM if done properly. I would think you'd want to apply the powder after painting it onto the IHS surface . . . just not sure how you'd get it on there without making a terrible mess.
Might be worth experimenting with it someday though.
Right, no lumps. You'd need a form-fitted sifter to dole it out like confectioner's sugar.
I took a look around and there is .25 micron diamond powder for sale. That isn't going to increase bondline thickness at all (sans clumping), so that would be the product to use.
Natural and synthetic will be the same. Actually synthetic might be a tad bit better.
Any update from OP? How did you end up applying the CLU? With the brush method? I see RockitCool recommending the Q-Tip method.
Also any thoughts on relidding? Do you guys use RTV or Super Glue or whatever?