AR-15 Stripped Lower Receiver

[AV1611]

For all of you guys worried about accidentally building an illegal machine gun.... impossible with the AR-15. You would have to go out and purposefully buy an auto sear, which does not come in a standard lower parts kit. Also, on every lower receiver I've ever seen there is a little protrusion near the selector switch (the switch that you move from safe to semi and back) that would not allow the switch to be moved to a third position (the full auto position), even if you somehow got hold of an auto sear.

See this lower receiver for example:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SASL&groupid=53

There are a lot of pins, springs, etc. in a lower parts kit. However, there are actually very few parts in the fire control group. It's pretty easy to compare a picture 100,000 different sources of a properly installed lower parts kit to your build to make sure that you haven't done something wrong. Even if you have done something wrong, it's not going to go full auto. Period.

AV1611 out....

 

[rsolomon]

For all of you guys worried about accidentally building an illegal machine gun.... impossible with the AR-15. You would have to go out and purposefully buy an auto sear, which does not come in a standard lower parts kit.

I don't think you'll have to look far to find several famous cases where that's not true. Accidentally doubling rifles have been ruled machineguns by BATFE. Simple ignorance would let you build a rifle with an 11" SMG barrel, etc.

I'm not arguing against DIY, but there is a *REMOTE* chance that you could unintentionally build something that BATFE ruled was illegal. I mean it's not much less likely than you accidentally stumbling across a diamond while walking through the desert, but it is NOT "impossible".

Richard

 

[Kabob]

For all of you guys worried about accidentally building an illegal machine gun.... impossible with the AR-15. You would have to go out and purposefully buy an auto sear, which does not come in a standard lower parts kit. Also, on every lower receiver I've ever seen there is a little protrusion near the selector switch (the switch that you move from safe to semi and back) that would not allow the switch to be moved to a third position (the full auto position), even if you somehow got hold of an auto sear.

See this lower receiver for example:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SASL&groupid=53

There are a lot of pins, springs, etc. in a lower parts kit. However, there are actually very few parts in the fire control group. It's pretty easy to compare a picture 100,000 different sources of a properly installed lower parts kit to your build to make sure that you haven't done something wrong. Even if you have done something wrong, it's not going to go full auto. Period.

AV1611 out....

I'm not saying that you'll make a MG or anything at all, the chance is VERY small, I'm saying that telling someone with zero knowledge of AR's to start off their experience by building their own FIREARM may not be the greatest idea.

I've got 4 AR's (3 Colts, 1 BCM) and I could make my own easily I'm sure, but I've had experience dissassembling, reassembling, cleaning, I know how they function, etc.

I don't think you'll have to look far to find several famous cases where that's not true. Accidentally doubling rifles have been ruled machineguns by BATFE. Simple ignorance would let you build a rifle with an 11" SMG barrel, etc.

I'm not arguing against DIY, but there is a *REMOTE* chance that you could unintentionally build something that BATFE ruled was illegal. I mean it's not much less likely than you accidentally stumbling across a diamond while walking through the desert, but it is NOT "impossible".

Richard

Once again, there's a 99.99% chance all will go well, but even so I wouldn't recommend someone building their own rifle from scratch with zero experience, especially when nowadays you can buy a complete S&W rifle or BCM upper, lower, BCG and such for nearly the same price as building it yourself.

 

[Kabob]

Nvm

 

[iroc409]

First of all, when you assemble a new lower yourself, before you make it into a firearm and before you take it out to test fire, function test it! It will be readily apparent if the trigger group does not operate as designed. You don't need ammo or a completed AR to test the FCG. Watch a Youtube video on how the trigger works, it may help.

Second, a forged lower is a forged lower. The main difference is the roll mark and finish quality. This is a hot deal. If you want to spend $150+ on a Noveske for the finish quality, more power to you (there are some very nice lowers out there I wouldn't mind owning). As long as it is in spec, the $60 one will not function any less than the Noveske.

I also agree though, with deals like the M&P you really only build when you want something specific. If you fill this $60 lower with BCM parts, it will be just as good as a BCM. If you just want a basic rifle, get a good quality factory rifle.

 

[Kabob]

First of all, when you assemble a new lower yourself, before you make it into a firearm and before you take it out to test fire, function test it! It will be readily apparent if the trigger group does not operate as designed. You don't need ammo or a completed AR to test the FCG. Watch a Youtube video on how the trigger works, it may help.

Second, a forged lower is a forged lower. The main difference is the roll mark and finish quality. This is a hot deal. If you want to spend $150+ on a Noveske for the finish quality, more power to you (there are some very nice lowers out there I wouldn't mind owning). As long as it is in spec, the $60 one will not function any less than the Noveske.

I also agree though, with deals like the M&P you really only build when you want something specific. If you fill this $60 lower with BCM parts, it will be just as good as a BCM. If you just want a basic rifle, get a good quality factory rifle.

1) Not all forged lowers are the same. A forged lower from a high quality company, sure, but some are out of spec. My buddy has an Oly lower that will not accept PMags because it is off a little bit.

2) BCM does not sell their LPK's.

3) Putting your own parts in a rifle does not make it "as good as" a reputable assembler/manufacturer. Alot of the $$ you are paying for with BCM/Colt/Noveske is quality control.

 

[AV1611]

Okay, everyone. As the OP I should say a few things. No, the receiver I posted in the OP is not as nice as something made by Noveske. However, I very much doubt that the receiver I posted is out of spec. If it IS in spec, the only difference between it and some other high end forged receiver is quality/amount of engraving or lettering and the finish. Spec is spec. If it is not in spec, Aim Surplus will make it right. They are not some fly by night company.

Yes, Olympic Arms sucks very much. Don't buy one of their completed rifles or one of their lowers. They are the worst of the bigger companies making AR's.

Yes, you could get a poorly made or even defective lower parts kit. Check out detailed pictures of a quality lower parts kit (Rock River Arms, etc.) and compare it to what you have if you are worried. Step one, however, is: Don't buy some junky generic kit from a gun show. Stick with a decent name brand still sealed in the factory bag: DPMS, Rock River Arms, Bushmaster, etc.)

I had ZERO experience with gunsmithing or building AR-15's before I decided I wanted to put one together. Changing the oil in my car is about as mechanically inclined as I get. If you can put together a gaming PC, you are smart enough to buy quality parts and put them together properly with the help of a free YouTube video.

Yes, www.cdnn.com is selling a nice Bushmaster for $599 after rebate. That is an incredible price. If you want a quality, no frills AR-15 without having to build one, this is the one and now is the time to buy it.

That does not change the fact that a $59.99 stripped lower is an incredible deal. If you want the experience of building your own gun, this is the first step. It's not voodoo or magic and you don't have to be mechanically inclined to do it. Just as many computer types build their own rigs so they know exactly what's in it as well as for the fun of it, some gun guys like building their own AR-15's. That is why I posted this deal in the first place: to hopefully turn some computer guys into gun guys. I love computers AND guns and love infecting other geeks with "black rifle disease".

So, come on AnandTech gunnies. Let's not bicker about every little thing and get more people into guns and shooting because guns and shooting are a freaking awesome hobby.


AV1611 out......

 

[iroc409]

1) Not all forged lowers are the same. A forged lower from a high quality company, sure, but some are out of spec. My buddy has an Oly lower that will not accept PMags because it is off a little bit.

2) BCM does not sell their LPK's.

3) Putting your own parts in a rifle does not make it "as good as" a reputable assembler/manufacturer. Alot of the $$ you are paying for with BCM/Colt/Noveske is quality control.

1. My buddy has an Oly lower that works perfectly, and I've never seen his rifle fail (but I do think as a rifle they are of lesser quality). I stated "if it is in spec". If it is not, the manufacturer should make it right. I bought a lower quite some time ago from a local mfr, and I had them exchange it when it wouldn't drop mags free. There are plenty of expensive rifles that won't drop a PMag either (hence the e-mag or whatever it is).

2. So choose Daniel Defense, RRA, Stag/CMT, etc. Plenty of good LPKs of equivalent quality to BCM. I didn't mean specifically the LPK itself, but you can get everything else from BCM.

3. I'd wager those companies still put quality control into the parts they sell, or they shouldn't have the reputation that they have. If you are not comfortable with providing your own QC for the final product, then you should buy a factory rifle.

Honestly, you're nit-picking my post. For someone who wants a cheap lower for a parts-bin range blaster, a .22 plinker, or whatever (and doesn't care about bling), this should be a fine lower. If this was a CAST lower, then it would be a different comparison.

ETA: I've paid around $150 for my lowers so ultimately I don't have a dog in this fight, but for the .22 I'm thinking about building I would most likely buy this if I didn't already have a spare--or would consider CMMG's complete .22.

 

[AMCRambler]

I'm looking into picking one of these up and apparently there are some laws in NY state regarding these guns that need to be considered. I haven't fully researched it yet but there's two gotchas I have found out about:

1. Flash suppressors are illegal here. Not sure about elsewhere.
2. Magazines larger than 10 rounds are still illegal in NY.

Apparently even though the federal assault weapons ban expired, there are still laws on certain features in NY. I'm not sure if there are any other gotchas that you need to worry about.

Does anybody have any more info regarding what's legal in NY?

 

[AV1611]

Here you go

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/#?st=NY

Just click on New York state on the map.

AV1611 out.....

I'm looking into picking one of these up and apparently there are some laws in NY state regarding these guns that need to be considered. I haven't fully researched it yet but there's two gotchas I have found out about:

1. Flash suppressors are illegal here. Not sure about elsewhere.
2. Magazines larger than 10 rounds are still illegal in NY.

Apparently even though the federal assault weapons ban expired, there are still laws on certain features in NY. I'm not sure if there are any other gotchas that you need to worry about.

Does anybody have any more info regarding what's legal in NY?

 

[AMCRambler]

Here you go

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/#?st=NY

Just click on New York state on the map.

AV1611 out.....

Crap. Sounds like Ar-15's are illegal in NY according to that site.

"It shall be unlawful to possess any “assault weapon”
or “large capacity ammunition feeding device.” So called
assault weapons lawfully possessed prior to September
14, 1994 and large capacity ammunition feeding devices
manufactured prior to such date can continue to be
lawfully possessed..."

“Assault weapon” is defined as:
A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
• a folding or telescoping stock;
• a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon;"
...
"Any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such
weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber,
known as:
• Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs
(All Models);
• Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
• Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
• Colt AR-15;
• Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
CAUTION: Firearm laws are subject to frequent change and court interpretation. This summary is not intended as legal advice or
restatement of law. This summary does not include federal or local laws, ordinances or regulations. For any particular situation, a
licensed local attorney must be consulted for an accurate interpretation. YOU MUST ABIDE WITH ALL LAWS: STATE, FEDERAL
AND LOCAL.
This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
• SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
• Steyr AUG;
• INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22;"

Well that friggin' sucks.

 

[AV1611]

Nope, NOT illegal. Go to this site:

www.ar15.com It is the AnandTech/Tom's Hardware of AR-15's, among other things.

Click on the "home town" button near the top of the page, then click on the link for New York. You can sign up for a free account and post whatever questions you want to the New Yorkers on the forum. There are a lot of them with AR-15's and AK-47's. They can fill you in on all the legalities, but basically, the tools who wrote the assault weapon ban mention the Colt AR-15 by name. There are a bazillion companies that make the AR-15 or make an AR-15 lower. You just have to watch out to not have too many "evil" features on your AR-15 (flash hider, pistol grip, bayonet lug, high cap mags, etc) or it will be illegal.

AV1611 out......

 

[imaheadcase]

I got a question. What is the deal with law enforcement guns? Do you have to be in law enforcement to buy them?

The reason for asking is, some guns i don't notice a single difference but small changes to the guns in question. For instance, a .308 magnum rifle. The only difference i see between it and store bought one is the bolt hangs down and is not as straight as civilian one.

 

[AMCRambler]

I got a question. What is the deal with law enforcement guns? Do you have to be in law enforcement to buy them?

The reason for asking is, some guns i don't notice a single difference but small changes to the guns in question. For instance, a .308 magnum rifle. The only difference i see between it and store bought one is the bolt hangs down and is not as straight as civilian one.

Does it come with a larger capacity mag?

 

[AMCRambler]

Nope, NOT illegal. Go to this site:

www.ar15.com It is the AnandTech/Tom's Hardware of AR-15's, among other things.

Click on the "home town" button near the top of the page, then click on the link for New York. You can sign up for a free account and post whatever questions you want to the New Yorkers on the forum. There are a lot of them with AR-15's and AK-47's. They can fill you in on all the legalities, but basically, the tools who wrote the assault weapon ban mention the Colt AR-15 by name. There are a bazillion companies that make the AR-15 or make an AR-15 lower. You just have to watch out to not have too many "evil" features on your AR-15 (flash hider, pistol grip, bayonet lug, high cap mags, etc) or it will be illegal.

AV1611 out......

Really? The way the NRA site words it, they say:

"Any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as:..."

and then go on to specifically mention the Colt AR-15. How are these other manufacturers not considered duplicates or copies? Maybe they worded it poorly. I'll have to check that other site you mention.

 

[AV1611]

Yes, really. It's legal, not shady in the slightest. Ask the guys on the New York hometown sub-forum at www.ar15.com for clarification and links to the relevant laws.

AV1611 out......

Really? The way the NRA site words it, they say:

"Any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as:..."

and then go on to specifically mention the Colt AR-15. How are these other manufacturers not considered duplicates or copies? Maybe they worded it poorly. I'll have to check that other site you mention.

 

[imaheadcase]

Does it come with a larger capacity mag?

Nope. Even so, you buy them without the clip the one i was eyeing. Yet it was $45 more than the others on site. weird

 

[AV1611]

Some manufacturers (Colt in the past), Ruger (in the past) focused more on military/govt/police sales rather than sales to private citizens. For example: in the past, Ruger only sold their 30 round mags for the Mini-14 rifle to police/govt./military... not because it was illegal for civilians to own them, but because the founder of Ruger, Bill Ruger, was a "sportsman" who didn't think that civilians should have the same magazines that the police/govt/military had access to. I'm not referring to full auto vs. semi-auto here, just accessories/features and magazines. The same with Colt and their "Law Enforcement only" models of AR-15's.

There was nothing really special about them. Same with some ammo companies producing "Law Enforcement" grade ammo. Civilians can buy the same stuff cops use if they like spending $$$ for "special" police ammo.

There is one company (can't remember the name) that makes high end bolt action precision rifles that purposefully uses lower quality (less accurate) barrels for the "civilian approved" model of their military/police "sniper grade" rifle.

Most "Law Enforcement Only" stuff is just hype. Some is actually different (the less accurate "civilian" barrel)

AV1611 out......

I got a question. What is the deal with law enforcement guns? Do you have to be in law enforcement to buy them?

The reason for asking is, some guns i don't notice a single difference but small changes to the guns in question. For instance, a .308 magnum rifle. The only difference i see between it and store bought one is the bolt hangs down and is not as straight as civilian one.

 

[AMCRambler]

Motion to give AV1611 the title "AT Gun Nut". Dude knows his shit.

 

[AV1611]

Thanks, but I don't qualify. Some of the mods over at www.ar15.com make me look like a complete gun ignoramus. I highly recommend you check it out over there. It's not just AR-15's. There are sub-forums for revolvers, pistols, AK's, shotguns, .22 rimfires, history, music, law enforcement, outdoor survival, cars, etc, etc, plus an EXTREMELY active General Discussion forum with thousands of people online at a time.

As of right now, there at 3335 people reading the forums at www.ar15.com. There are cops, MD's and tons of nurses and allied health care professionals, preachers, lawyers, tradesmen, scientists, computer geeks, small business owners, gays, straights, conservatives, liberals, you name it and plenty of them all. They only thing they all have in common is guns.


AV1611 out....

Motion to give AV1611 the title "AT Gun Nut". Dude knows his shit.

 

[AMCRambler]

Thanks, but I don't qualify. Some of the mods over at www.ar15.com make me look like a complete gun ignoramus. I highly recommend you check it out over there. It's not just AR-15's. There are sub-forums for revolvers, pistols, AK's, shotguns, .22 rimfires, history, music, law enforcement, outdoor survival, cars, etc, etc, plus an EXTREMELY active General Discussion forum with thousands of people online at a time.

As of right now, there at 3335 people reading the forums at www.ar15.com. There are cops, MD's and tons of nurses and allied health care professionals, preachers, lawyers, tradesmen, scientists, computer geeks, small business owners, gays, straights, conservatives, liberals, you name it and plenty of them all. They only thing they all have in common is guns.


AV1611 out....

Soon as I get home I'll check it out. I'm at work and weapons sites are all blocked by the content filter. I shouldn't be looking at that stuff while I'm working anyway.

AMCRambler out.. hehehe

 

[pyro451]

+1 for ARFCOM (ar15.com).

Awesome resource. It got me hooked before I bought my first black rifle and then another...etc.

Some great folks over there that seem to be willing to help with almost anything.

 

[imaheadcase]

The only gun i own is the Marlin 7000 .22LR. I've had a blast with if over the years in target practice, it has that short-heavy barrel all black. I think i'm going to get a bolt action gun soon, i got all excited again looking at gun sites dammit!

 

[AV1611]

Since you already have a .22 rifle and are looking for cheap blasting fun, I recommend three different options for you:

1) get a .22lr revolver or pistol. You could get a quality gun for $300. Ammo is dirt cheap.

2) get a 9mm Hi-Point carbine. MSRP is only $274 for the basic model. I'm sure you could find one cheaper NIB in a local store.
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/carbines/carbines_9mm.html

cheap Russian 9mm can be found here for $171.95/1,000 rounds:
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/9mm-fmj-ammo

3) One of these bad boys for only $100:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=117

880 round of hard hitting ammo $139.98 = crazy cheap:
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1569.html


Shoot 'em if you got 'em.

AV1611 out......

 

[SJP0tato]

880 round of hard hitting ammo ...

Haha, you aren't kidding! Everytime someone at the range has one it sounds like a little mini canon going off.