AR15 saves life of New York students

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,769
52
91
Buh buh but an AR15 has no legitimate use. You only need one of those if you want to slaughter innocents by the dozen.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Honestly could do without seeing that picture this morning, cave dweller.

Anyway, the guy in NY did it without any ammunition, as it was unloaded. Not sure if this is an argument for ARs or against their mag sizes, since not only did he not need 7 rounds, but he didn't even need one.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
They're intruders. Why would you want it to be fair fight anyway? That's the point.

If you are dumb enough to attack an armed person with a something that looks like a real gun you should pay the price of your life to Darwin. That guy has been owed too much by too many already.
 

cave_dweller

Senior member
Mar 3, 2012
231
0
0
Honestly could do without seeing that picture this morning, cave dweller.

Anyway, the guy in NY did it without any ammunition, as it was unloaded. Not sure if this is an argument for ARs or against their mag sizes, since not only did he not need 7 rounds, but he didn't even need one.

My appoligy but such things is common by us so we use to seeing guts and bodies pumped full of all kinds of ammo. I wonder how many people see what different kind of gunshots a body of a person. Especially a head shot and how the blood looks around the body. I have seen peoples knees ripped with a Assault rifle. My one friend was shot in his but with a Assault rifle and the force was so big that his knee popped out. Other friend had a skin graph on his arm from one round hitting his arm.

Assault rifles are designed these days to be used in urban areas. So that means unlike the old 7.62mm it needs to hit the human body then maul it inside rather than going through it and hit a innocent person.
 

cave_dweller

Senior member
Mar 3, 2012
231
0
0
If you are dumb enough to attack an armed person with a something that looks like a real gun you should pay the price of your life to Darwin. That guy has been owed too much by too many already.

My dad use to say never bring a knife to a gun fight.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
In fact, the rifle wasn’t even loaded at the time of the incident, Raymond said.
So its by intimidation alone that they are still alive. He never could have been prepared in time if the home invaders had simply proceeded.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
This fits perfectly.

“The necessary consequence of man's right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative.

If some "pacifist" society renounced the retaliatory use of force, it would be left helplessly at the mercy of the first thug who decided to be immoral. Such a society would achieve the opposite of its intention: instead of abolishing evil, it would encourage and reward it.”
― Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
1. Don't know if it saved their lives.
2. It didn't need to be an AR-15 - a .22 may have worked just as well. Actually, a crowbar may have worked just as well for all we know.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
1. Don't know if it saved their lives.
2. It didn't need to be an AR-15 - a .22 may have worked just as well. Actually, a crowbar may have worked just as well for all we know.

1. Right, because being knocked out or tied up as your apartment is robbed, or being killed, is a small price to pay for that burglar's life!

2. No, it likely didn't have to be an AR-15. So what? The point is an AR-15 in the right hands can do good. There is no rational reason a civilian shouldn't be able to own one. There are only irrational, emotional, and philosophical reasons. If the government has no right to legislate vegetarianism, they have no right to legislate that I cannot own an AR-15 under any circumstances.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,659
491
126
The people could have stopped the thwarted apartment invasion just as well with a pump action shotgun...

2. No, it likely didn't have to be an AR-15. So what? The point is an AR-15 in the right hands can do good. There is no rational reason a civilian shouldn't be able to own one. There are only irrational, emotional, and philosophical reasons. If the government has no right to legislate vegetarianism, they have no right to legislate that I cannot own an AR-15 under any circumstances.

It can do good but in the wrong hands it also probably has a greater capacity to do more harm (in the amount of people shot) than a typical shotgun. Sure there are more "exotic" shotguns than the typical shotgun that is in the popular imagination but overall if you are one of those rare insane people planning on a mass shooting the ease of reloading a shotgun vs. reloading a magazine fed firearm might be a consideration.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,050
38,557
136
My appoligy but such things is common by us so we use to seeing guts and bodies pumped full of all kinds of ammo. I wonder how many people see what different kind of gunshots a body of a person. Especially a head shot and how the blood looks around the body. I have seen peoples knees ripped with a Assault rifle. My one friend was shot in his but with a Assault rifle and the force was so big that his knee popped out. Other friend had a skin graph on his arm from one round hitting his arm.

Assault rifles are designed these days to be used in urban areas. So that means unlike the old 7.62mm it needs to hit the human body then maul it inside rather than going through it and hit a innocent person.


Yikes! You are in South Africa? Zimbabwe? Have to disagree with the bolded as it's mostly false I think.

In urban combat you want something that can kill a guy on the other side of a concrete and mortar wall. Using a caliber that can only really take on obstructions at perpendicular angles limits your tactics and gives your adversary cover. Fuck that. What you need is the higher mass projectiles with *respectable velocities, not the small high speed ones that were designed with wound creation in mind. What happens if before your 55grains of American love can express itself to that Chechyan, it has to pass through some glass, a bead curtain, maybe a piece of furniture? Intermediate rounds like the 5.56 have great terminal effects on unarmored targets, but penetration is lacking for urban combat as far as I am aware. Therein is the reason for the 6.8SPC, and why some folks said to hell with it let's just use 7.62x51 as it's already out in use. Sure there are penetrators in bullets, but they too are hampered by a lack of mass at some point.

The West has designed calibers with terminal effects primary, penetration secondary.
The East designs their calibers ( I guess the US-mimicked 5.45mm would be the exception) with penetration as the primary concern. I've heard some pros say this boils down to one thing: both sides count on the East as the one not spending a lot on body armor. Given China's vast number of possible troops and the fact that countries like the USA go with relatively small volunteer forces I guess it makes sense? The concept is the same no matter if it's flash suppressors or tanks so why not bullet designs?




Cool thread story though, it's a real life example of satsujin no ken katsujin no ken.

I wish anti gun type could understand that what they perceive as weapons are really just tools. People are the weapons!
What I want to know is if the perps were more intimidated by the sight of a rifle than they would have been if the gun had been a .45 or shotgun, but then I guess if you are only packing a BB gun it really doesn't matter!





*One of the needs the 5.56 can't really live up to all that well is stopping a vehicle, aka, drilling it right through the block or wiping out the passengers entirely, decisively. Army and Marines can use a drop in kit on their M16A2s that allows them to fire a purposefully slow, heavy .50cal round that is far less likely to ricochet. Very effective.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
replace the AR-15 with any pistol or shotgun and you'd have had the same outcome, because they had a bb gun.
Assault rifles not being necessary for self-defense isn't enough of a reason to ban them though, maybe someone likes shooting at the range.
 
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