Arab League agrees to attend US backed Peace conference

[Lemon law]

Here it is folks, hot off the presses from Yahoo news.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...mxfTjYBzRKU85wpTes0NUE

The Arab League and Saudi Arabia agrees to attend the Rice brokered peace conference starting next Tuesday. Lots of starting strikes against already covered in other threads, but it may be safe to say, if all sides work together, it may gasp, be possible to make some actual progress. Time will tell but I was guessing that Arab Countries would largely boycott the meeting. And if Israel is willing to discuss the Golan Heights, Syria may even get on board.

My guess is still that it will depend on how serious Israel is willing to get. And that may depend on how tough Condi Rice is willing to be.

 

[magomago]

I'm still skeptical of the overall situation mainly because Israel has already decided post condition talks for any future gatherings, as well as inching closer to passing a bill that will not compromise any of Jersusalem. That itself will really kill any follow up situation

Despite being skeptical though - you might as well try. At the very least they probably will get a chance to tour Annapolis (is there anything worth seeing there?)

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: magomago
I'm still skeptical of the overall situation mainly because Israel has already decided post condition talks for any future gatherings, as well as inching closer to passing a bill that will not compromise any of Jersusalem. That itself will really kill any follow up situation

Despite being skeptical though - you might as well try. At the very least they probably will get a chance to tour Annapolis (is there anything worth seeing there?)

ummm do you have anything bad to say about the other side as well?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: magomago
I'm still skeptical of the overall situation mainly because Israel has already decided post condition talks for any future gatherings, as well as inching closer to passing a bill that will not compromise any of Jersusalem. That itself will really kill any follow up situation

Despite being skeptical though - you might as well try. At the very least they probably will get a chance to tour Annapolis (is there anything worth seeing there?)

as usual onesided commentary

 

[Lemon law]

In somewhat related news, Lebanon is entering another period of instability with the end of the Presidential term of Lahoud. With factions inside Lebanon fighting over Syrian influence in Lebanon. Which may then some what cause Lebanese issues to dominate the peace conference.

But meanwhile, unless all sides make meaningful concessions, its doubtful progress will be made.

We can blame one side of the other later.

 

[Braznor]

India gave up 1/3rd of its land to Muslims to appease them.

Yet we still have bombings from the Islamists.

A supreme example why Israel shouldn't concede an inch of land to the enemy.

The fools, the Israelis think surrendering land to the Palestinians will buy them peace.

These people only know the language of war, inspite what the liars and apologists here tell you all.

 

[Jaskalas]

So we can beg them to show up for a meeting, but unless we sell our soul to them there is no offer they will accept. Their terms are proper and clear: surrender or die. The travesty is that our terms do not match theirs.

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
So we can beg them to show up for a meeting, but unless we sell our soul to them there is no offer they will accept. Their terms are proper and clear: surrender or die. The travesty is that our terms do not match theirs.

You can attend all the meetings they want.

Just don't expect progress. Expect Islamists to be reasonable is like expected the Niagara falls to flow upwards.

Such expectations contradict historical and psychological precedents.

 

[RichardE]

Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip to appease the arabs and recieved nothing but more death. It seems the Arab nations will pacify the west by a somewhat show of peace.

The leaders of those countries need an enemy to hate to keep power. Israel is slowly putting the noose around there own neck with all the concessions they are willing to make lately.

 

[Kntx]

Nothing will come of this. No one wants peace.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip to appease the arabs and recieved nothing but more death. It seems the Arab nations will pacify the west by a somewhat show of peace.

The leaders of those countries need an enemy to hate to keep power. Israel is slowly putting the noose around there own neck with all the concessions they are willing to make lately.

Israel also cotenued to expand their occupation of the West Bank during that same time period. Don't you think that would be the more likely cause for the more death?

 

[Lemon law]

As Braznor says------------Just don't expect progress. Expect Islamists to be reasonable is like expected the Niagara falls to flow upwards.

Funny thing that---The Arabs say the same thing about Israel. As Israel keeps grabbing more and more Arab land. After all, all gains from the 1967 war
must be given back per UN rules. And the right of return from 1948 still is a very much alive issue.

If this peace conference is to make any progress, ALL Sides must make concessions.

If the Israelis take the Braznor advice, this peace conference will be DOA. And the Israelis can then inherit the wind as they discover holding is not the same as having.
Much of the same issues drive this are rooted in the right to return and. We now approach year 60 and no end in sight. Lots of wrongs on both sides.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: magomago
I'm still skeptical of the overall situation mainly because Israel has already decided post condition talks for any future gatherings, as well as inching closer to passing a bill that will not compromise any of Jersusalem. That itself will really kill any follow up situation

Despite being skeptical though - you might as well try. At the very least they probably will get a chance to tour Annapolis (is there anything worth seeing there?)

as usual onesided commentary

Really? Then why don't you show us all your usual all-sided commentary? On Topic: Why doesn't the fed EVER stay out of things? Israel and the Arabs can just as easily talk to each other, and that way we (the poor, deluded US taxpayers) won't have to be responsible for paying off all sides.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As Braznor says------------Just don't expect progress. Expect Islamists to be reasonable is like expected the Niagara falls to flow upwards.

Funny thing that---The Arabs say the same thing about Israel. As Israel keeps grabbing more and more Arab land. After all, all gains from the 1967 war
must be given back per UN rules. And the right of return from 1948 still is a very much alive issue.

If this peace conference is to make any progress, ALL Sides must make concessions.

If the Israelis take the Braznor advice, this peace conference will be DOA. And the Israelis can then inherit the wind as they discover holding is not the same as having.
Much of the same issues drive this are rooted in the right to return and. We now approach year 60 and no end in sight. Lots of wrongs on both sides.

another Arab sympathizer I see...sad......

Braznor is 100% correct though!

 

[Lemon law]

As JEDIYoda says----another Arab sympathizer I see...sad......

Braznor is 100% correct though!

The fact that I am more neutral here and see some merits to the argument on both sides does not make me an Arab sympathizer.

But you, Braznor, and a whole lot of other people are totally delusional if you believe that Israel will ever find the peace they want on just their terms.
As much as you wish that Israel will get those terms, it just ain't going to happen. Israel can maintain itself with a very strong military, but it can't ever
find peace that way. But if Israel keeps ramping up the hatreds, in the longer course of time, they can't survive that way. And as someone who does believe in the
Israeli ideals, I find that as something I do not want to see happen.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip to appease the arabs and recieved nothing but more death. It seems the Arab nations will pacify the west by a somewhat show of peace.

The leaders of those countries need an enemy to hate to keep power. Israel is slowly putting the noose around there own neck with all the concessions they are willing to make lately.

Israel also cotenued to expand their occupation of the West Bank during that same time period. Don't you think that would be the more likely cause for the more death?

If you look at present negotiations Israel is offering the arabs everything they wanted, without asking for anything in return (and all they asked for is the bloodshed to stop)

No, the arabs need war to keep power. Israel needs to understand this and stop being so lenient with them.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As Braznor says------------Just don't expect progress. Expect Islamists to be reasonable is like expected the Niagara falls to flow upwards.

Funny thing that---The Arabs say the same thing about Israel. As Israel keeps grabbing more and more Arab land. After all, all gains from the 1967 war
must be given back per UN rules. And the right of return from 1948 still is a very much alive issue.

If this peace conference is to make any progress, ALL Sides must make concessions.

If the Israelis take the Braznor advice, this peace conference will be DOA. And the Israelis can then inherit the wind as they discover holding is not the same as having.
Much of the same issues drive this are rooted in the right to return and. We now approach year 60 and no end in sight. Lots of wrongs on both sides.

Why should they give more land back? The land they have given back has been used for more closer attacks. So give ever more land back so that Iran can set up more quasi bases closer to them? Its suicidal to try and appease a entity that exists solely for your destruction. Appeasement has been tried in history already and met with a catastrophic failure many times.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As JEDIYoda says----another Arab sympathizer I see...sad......

Braznor is 100% correct though!

The fact that I am more neutral here and see some merits to the argument on both sides does not make me an Arab sympathizer.

But you, Braznor, and a whole lot of other people are totally delusional if you believe that Israel will ever find the peace they want on just their terms.
As much as you wish that Israel will get those terms, it just ain't going to happen. Israel can maintain itself with a very strong military, but it can't ever
find peace that way. But if Israel keeps ramping up the hatreds, in the longer course of time, they can't survive that way. And as someone who does believe in the
Israeli ideals, I find that as something I do not want to see happen.

The problem is Lemon law, and this is something you seem to be missing from your limited knowledge on this subject is that Israel has offered to the Arabs everything that have declared they wanted. When they first asked for concessions many on this board said give it to them, and a few, myself included said it will not do any good, they will ask for more. Now years later, Israel has offered them everything they wanted, and they still refuse asking for even more. The Arab leaders do not want peace, and the next two generations at least are already taught to hate your enemy (be it an arab, or a jew). Peace will not happen anytime soon, nor anytime in the near or foreseeable century.


It took how many decades for blacks and whites in america to come together as one? And this is a country where even the poor drive cars to protests, where education is free to all, and that even when opressed because you are a different race, the fact is you can still lead a comfortable life. These things are not present in the middle east, you cannot alliavate a hunger or lack of money by saying "love your neighbor". The majority of the people who are pawns of the players have no real chance, they did not "blow it" they just never had it, and they need an enemy. They are taught that it is the fault of Israel. And who keeps Israel in power in there corner of the earth? The United States does, so that hate flows to you guys. You cannot sit here and sell arms to Israel and at the same time wonder why the arabs do not want to talk peace.

MAD worked with the Russians because people were on even footing. This is not the same situation as in the Middle East, the Arab nations cannot even come close to the amount of power that the US could bring down on them, you are not discussiong peace on even terms, you are holding a gun to someones head and saying accept this, and if you don't we will send you back to your people as a weak slobering fool. You seem to think that because they drink Coca Cola that there morals and there idea of right and wrong is the same as ours, and it is not.

We cannot have peace in the Middle east. It will not happen in our lifetime, nor probally in the next. All we can do in ensure that the place does not go to hell and endanger our way of life in North America, and to do that we need to keep certain powers there (Saudia Arabia and Israel to state the obvious) so that millions do not die.

To think you will bring stabilization to somewhere that does not want to be stabilized is foolish. If you need an example, look at Africa and ask yourself why they are not a modern beacon of hope after we shoved so much money at them.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip to appease the arabs and recieved nothing but more death. It seems the Arab nations will pacify the west by a somewhat show of peace.

The leaders of those countries need an enemy to hate to keep power. Israel is slowly putting the noose around there own neck with all the concessions they are willing to make lately.

RIIIIGHT. B.S. You act as if they dissapeared from Gaza Life. They may not have physical boots on the ground , but they still crippled Gaza's economy by putting a free on anything entering or exiting the region as well as harassing the population as much as possible

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE
Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip to appease the arabs and recieved nothing but more death. It seems the Arab nations will pacify the west by a somewhat show of peace.

The leaders of those countries need an enemy to hate to keep power. Israel is slowly putting the noose around there own neck with all the concessions they are willing to make lately.

Israel also cotenued to expand their occupation of the West Bank during that same time period. Don't you think that would be the more likely cause for the more death?

If you look at present negotiations Israel is offering the arabs everything they wanted, without asking for anything in return (and all they asked for is the bloodshed to stop)

No, the arabs need war to keep power. Israel needs to understand this and stop being so lenient with them.

Lies. The most BASIC foundation is this:
1967 borders with the dismantlement of EVERY single settlement and East Jersusalem as the capital of Palestine.

After that there are more points to debate - namely the most important being the right of return.

By the way you have it wrong - Israel needs war to keep its aggressive expansion campaign to stealing even more Arab land.

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
So we can beg them to show up for a meeting, but unless we sell our soul to them there is no offer they will accept. Their terms are proper and clear: surrender or die. The travesty is that our terms do not match theirs.

Where is this stated? I don't see it on any agenda up for discussion. Although I guess it is fun to pretend there is a random battle of "good vs evil" to lighten up otherwise boring life.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As JEDIYoda says----another Arab sympathizer I see...sad......

Braznor is 100% correct though!

The fact that I am more neutral here and see some merits to the argument on both sides does not make me an Arab sympathizer.

But you, Braznor, and a whole lot of other people are totally delusional if you believe that Israel will ever find the peace they want on just their terms.
As much as you wish that Israel will get those terms, it just ain't going to happen. Israel can maintain itself with a very strong military, but it can't ever
find peace that way. But if Israel keeps ramping up the hatreds, in the longer course of time, they can't survive that way. And as someone who does believe in the
Israeli ideals, I find that as something I do not want to see happen.

The problem is Lemon law, and this is something you seem to be missing from your limited knowledge on this subject is that Israel has offered to the Arabs everything that have declared they wanted. When they first asked for concessions many on this board said give it to them, and a few, myself included said it will not do any good, they will ask for more. Now years later, Israel has offered them everything they wanted, and they still refuse asking for even more. The Arab leaders do not want peace, and the next two generations at least are already taught to hate your enemy (be it an arab, or a jew). Peace will not happen anytime soon, nor anytime in the near or foreseeable century.

Again, a lie. When you can point to me the fact that Israel offered "Arabs everything they have declared they wanted".

Let us just take a look at one of the latest situation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1844214.stm

* Israel is required to withdraw from all territories seized in 1967 - the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.
* In return, all Arab states offer normal diplomatic relations - including a peace deal that recognises Israel's right to exist and secures its borders.
* The plan was formally announced at an Arab League summit in Beirut in March 2003.


* Reports suggest that the Saudi plan allows for Israeli sovereignty over the Western or Wailing Wall in Jerusalem - one of Judaism's holiest sites.
* The same reports suggest that the plan allows for the transfer of some areas of the West Bank to Israel in return for equivalent transfers to a Palestinian sate.
* It is also suggested that the issue of the right of return for Palestinian refugees to Israel has been dropped or sidestepped. This issue is crucial because many Israelis see the Palestinian claim to the right of return as a fundamental demographic threat to the idea of Israel as a state for Jewish people.

This peace plan was endorsed again earlier this year, in case you forgot.

It took how many decades for blacks and whites in america to come together as one? And this is a country where even the poor drive cars to protests, where education is free to all, and that even when opressed because you are a different race, the fact is you can still lead a comfortable life. These things are not present in the middle east, you cannot alliavate a hunger or lack of money by saying "love your neighbor". The majority of the people who are pawns of the players have no real chance, they did not "blow it" they just never had it, and they need an enemy. They are taught that it is the fault of Israel. And who keeps Israel in power in there corner of the earth? The United States does, so that hate flows to you guys. You cannot sit here and sell arms to Israel and at the same time wonder why the arabs do not want to talk peace.

Do you have selective filtering or something?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As JEDIYoda says----another Arab sympathizer I see...sad......

Braznor is 100% correct though!

The fact that I am more neutral here and see some merits to the argument on both sides does not make me an Arab sympathizer.

But you, Braznor, and a whole lot of other people are totally delusional if you believe that Israel will ever find the peace they want on just their terms.
As much as you wish that Israel will get those terms, it just ain't going to happen. Israel can maintain itself with a very strong military, but it can't ever
find peace that way. But if Israel keeps ramping up the hatreds, in the longer course of time, they can't survive that way. And as someone who does believe in the
Israeli ideals, I find that as something I do not want to see happen.

The problem is Lemon law, and this is something you seem to be missing from your limited knowledge on this subject is that Israel has offered to the Arabs everything that have declared they wanted. When they first asked for concessions many on this board said give it to them, and a few, myself included said it will not do any good, they will ask for more. Now years later, Israel has offered them everything they wanted, and they still refuse asking for even more. The Arab leaders do not want peace, and the next two generations at least are already taught to hate your enemy (be it an arab, or a jew). Peace will not happen anytime soon, nor anytime in the near or foreseeable century.

Again, a lie. When you can point to me the fact that Israel offered "Arabs everything they have declared they wanted".

Let us just take a look at one of the latest situation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1844214.stm

* Israel is required to withdraw from all territories seized in 1967 - the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.
* In return, all Arab states offer normal diplomatic relations - including a peace deal that recognises Israel's right to exist and secures its borders.
* The plan was formally announced at an Arab League summit in Beirut in March 2003.


* Reports suggest that the Saudi plan allows for Israeli sovereignty over the Western or Wailing Wall in Jerusalem - one of Judaism's holiest sites.
* The same reports suggest that the plan allows for the transfer of some areas of the West Bank to Israel in return for equivalent transfers to a Palestinian sate.
* It is also suggested that the issue of the right of return for Palestinian refugees to Israel has been dropped or sidestepped. This issue is crucial because many Israelis see the Palestinian claim to the right of return as a fundamental demographic threat to the idea of Israel as a state for Jewish people.

This peace plan was endorsed again earlier this year, in case you forgot.

It took how many decades for blacks and whites in america to come together as one? And this is a country where even the poor drive cars to protests, where education is free to all, and that even when opressed because you are a different race, the fact is you can still lead a comfortable life. These things are not present in the middle east, you cannot alliavate a hunger or lack of money by saying "love your neighbor". The majority of the people who are pawns of the players have no real chance, they did not "blow it" they just never had it, and they need an enemy. They are taught that it is the fault of Israel. And who keeps Israel in power in there corner of the earth? The United States does, so that hate flows to you guys. You cannot sit here and sell arms to Israel and at the same time wonder why the arabs do not want to talk peace.

Do you have selective filtering or something?

And even as you say that they were accepted, they go around giving other statements trying to destroy it. For example, http://jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/104603.html where Abbas will be asking for the Wailing Wall, after endorsing the Saudi plan. I have read the proposals, all in all, the arabs say "yes this will work" only to have a few months later go bakc on some issue that will be of religious significance to derail it. It might not be going back on a fundamental aspect of a peace plan, but it is going back on something that the Israel public is going to say "no, that will not work" and they know it. Again, as I said, the Arabs need war to stay in power. Hopefully Netanyahu is elected and can fix some of the damage done to Israel due to her concessions before it is too late. As well, I hope the peace plan is stalled until Olmert is out, before he can destroy Israel any more than he has.

 

[teclis1023]

All things considered, Israel has given back WAY more land than it has kept. Strange that nobody seems concerned about Syria or Lebanon's land-grabbing or mistreatment of the Palestinians.

Oh, right - I forgot, it's okay to kill Civilians as long as they're Israeli. Perhaps this is the same reason that when Palestinian rockets kill their own civilians, they blame Israel.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
All things considered, Israel has given back WAY more land than it has kept. Strange that nobody seems concerned about Syria or Lebanon's land-grabbing or mistreatment of the Palestinians.

Oh, right - I forgot, it's okay to kill Civilians as long as they're Israeli. Perhaps this is the same reason that when Palestinian rockets kill their own civilians, they blame Israel.

- Killing civilians? Did you all the sudden forget the +1000 civilians Israel killed last Summer and the hundreds of civilians dying from Israeli cluster bombs even till today?

- Mistreatment of Palestinians? Bring me proof for your arguments... (and please don't be foolish enough to bring up Fatah Al-Islam). Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are not Lebanese citizens and therefor are not entitled to take part of the many things Lebanese citizens are legally allowed to take part of, it's sad, but Lebanon is a very small country and the integration of +600,000 Palestinians into the very sensitive and fragile Lebanese society can be of catastrophic results, plus we would be doing Israel a big favor by naturalizing the Palestinians as they would lose a lot, it's not going to happen

And BTW in case you forgot, these Palestinians that we are sheltering in Lebanon and you are all of the sudden concerned for, are the same Palestinians that your beloved Israel won't let go back to their own land under their right to return! The land which now hosts illegal Jewish settlers on it's premise!

- Land grabbing? What are you efing talking about? When the hell did Lebanon grab anyone's land?
As far as I know Israel "grabbed" the entirely of Southern Lebanon and the Shebaa Farms and it took a couple of decades of terror and squabbling for them to withdraw! And I am damn sure that if those suckers from Hizbollah didn't bug the sht out of them during those 2 decades, they would have been present in the South till this very day (and that's if they hadn't taken over the Karoun power generation damn too). And as far as Syria is concerned last time I checked the land grabbing balance is in Israel's favor by a whopping Golan Heights difference.

 

[Braznor]

Magomago and DarkThinker, tell me this:

What did India get for giving away Muslims 1/3rd of its own land thereby creating Pakistan?

Did it get us peace?

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Braznor
Magomago and DarkThinker, tell me this:

What did India get for giving away Muslims 1/3rd of its own land thereby creating Pakistan?

Did it get us peace?

Personally, I don't think India should have been split in the first place I have both Indian and Pakistani friends that I used to study with back in Engineering (both Muslim and non-Muslim) good people, I don't see an obvious reason why they couldn't have gotten along in better circumstances...I don't know go ask the British about that, as far as I know they could have made much better decisions than what they did over there, it's not my area of expertise anyways nor my top concern ATM, my country is hanging on a cliff right now and I need to find answers to how to fix it before giving my opinion about others.