Arbitrary pricing?

[Arkaign]

I have been a fan of certain BMWs for some time, notably the lightweight M3 edition of the mid 90s, and a few others as well. But following the recent development of the M cars, something just seems weird to me.

(1)- The performance of the new 335i is eerily close to the new M3, and given the easy mods you can juice the turbo up with, I'd frankly rather have a 335i and spend that extra cash on making it faster/tighter than the new M3.

(2)- The new M5 and M6 are priced $82,500, and $108,xxx, respectively. WTF. I'd rather have the M5 anyway, 4 doors and more space, nearly identical performance. I guess they think a convertible is worth $26k more, even using the same exact drivetrain? Just seems dumb to me. A 500hp V10 with middling torque but a scorching redline is guaranteed fun regardless of how many doors the damn thing has.

(3)- Underpants

(4)- ???

(5)- Profit

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I have been a fan of certain BMWs for some time, notably the lightweight M3 edition of the mid 90s, and a few others as well. But following the recent development of the M cars, something just seems weird to me.

(1)- The performance of the new 335i is eerily close to the new M3, and given the easy mods you can juice the turbo up with, I'd frankly rather have a 335i and spend that extra cash on making it faster/tighter than the new M3.

(2)- The new M5 and M6 are priced $82,500, and $108,xxx, respectively. WTF. I'd rather have the M5 anyway, 4 doors and more space, nearly identical performance. I guess they think a convertible is worth $26k more, even using the same exact drivetrain? Just seems dumb to me. A 500hp V10 with middling torque but a scorching redline is guaranteed fun regardless of how many doors the damn thing has.

(3)- Underpants

(4)- ???

(5)- Profit

1. M cars have always been about NA performance. Turbos just dont hve have the linear power ramp. Personally I would rather have a smooth turbo I6 also though, tuned to easily produce more hp than a M3.

2. the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I have been a fan of certain BMWs for some time, notably the lightweight M3 edition of the mid 90s, and a few others as well. But following the recent development of the M cars, something just seems weird to me.

(1)- The performance of the new 335i is eerily close to the new M3, and given the easy mods you can juice the turbo up with, I'd frankly rather have a 335i and spend that extra cash on making it faster/tighter than the new M3.

(2)- The new M5 and M6 are priced $82,500, and $108,xxx, respectively. WTF. I'd rather have the M5 anyway, 4 doors and more space, nearly identical performance. I guess they think a convertible is worth $26k more, even using the same exact drivetrain? Just seems dumb to me. A 500hp V10 with middling torque but a scorching redline is guaranteed fun regardless of how many doors the damn thing has.

(3)- Underpants

(4)- ???

(5)- Profit

1. M cars have always been about NA performance. Turbos just dont hve have the linear power ramp. Personally I would rather have a smooth turbo I6 also though, tuned to easily produce more hp than a M3.

2. the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)

Heh, well I'd still get the M5 and spend the extra $26k saved maybe on some beer or perhaps a down payment on a house

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)

Actually, the M6 is also available as a coupe.

And you have the weights wrong, the M6 Convertible weighs 4398 lbs, the M5 weighs 4012 lbs and the M6 Coupe is lightest of all at 3909 lbs. BMW did all it could to make the overweight 6 series a lean, mean racing M machine. Check out the M6 Coupe's carbon-fiber roof!

I've driven both the M5 and the M6 coupe; they're brutal machines that demand constant attention both to drive and shift properly using the SMG transmission.

Still, either one will bring a huge grin to your face when you stomp on the right pedal!

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: Arkaign
the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)

Actually, the M6 is also available as a coupe.

And you have the weights wrong, the M6 Convertible weighs 4398 lbs, the M5 weighs 4012 lbs and the M6 Coupe is lightest of all at 3909 lbs. BMW did all it could to make the overweight 6 series a lean, mean racing M machine. Check out the M6 Coupe's carbon-fiber roof!

I've driven both the M5 and the M6 coupe; they're brutal machines that demand constant attention both to drive and shift properly using the SMG transmission.

Still, either one will bring a huge grin to your face when you stomp on the right pedal!

It's amazing how close in weight the M5 and M6 are at just a 103 lb difference, considering the M5's greater interior space, 2 extra doors, moonroof, and metal roof. I think the M5 is the better form factor in this comparison given the very slight weight difference.

 

[Arkaign]

Hehe all the quotes in this thread make it look like I said "the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)", when it was someone else.

Weird

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: Arkaign
the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)

Actually, the M6 is also available as a coupe.

And you have the weights wrong, the M6 Convertible weighs 4398 lbs, the M5 weighs 4012 lbs and the M6 Coupe is lightest of all at 3909 lbs. BMW did all it could to make the overweight 6 series a lean, mean racing M machine. Check out the M6 Coupe's carbon-fiber roof!

I've driven both the M5 and the M6 coupe; they're brutal machines that demand constant attention both to drive and shift properly using the SMG transmission.

Still, either one will bring a huge grin to your face when you stomp on the right pedal!

3769 for coupe
4419 for drop top (GD! that's a lot of extra weight)

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: Arkaign
the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)

Actually, the M6 is also available as a coupe.

And you have the weights wrong, the M6 Convertible weighs 4398 lbs, the M5 weighs 4012 lbs and the M6 Coupe is lightest of all at 3909 lbs. BMW did all it could to make the overweight 6 series a lean, mean racing M machine. Check out the M6 Coupe's carbon-fiber roof!

I've driven both the M5 and the M6 coupe; they're brutal machines that demand constant attention both to drive and shift properly using the SMG transmission.

Still, either one will bring a huge grin to your face when you stomp on the right pedal!

3769 for coupe
4419 for drop top (GD! that's a lot of extra weight)

Where did they get those numbers? Maybe for the European model?

Anyway, you bet they had to add a lot of weight to the convertible, the 6 series is a very long, heavy vehicle (its essentially the 5 platform in a coupe package) so cutting off the roof required huge amounts of structural reinforcement to prevent flex. Same old story with convertibles--wind in your hair equals pounds on the ground. (This clever phrase is copyrighted by Woofmeister and may not be used without his express written permission):laugh:


Edit--I figured it out, RSportscars is using the 2005 model weight, not the 2007. You can see the "2005" in parenthesis right here.

 

[dwcal]

1) The M's are more about track performance than straight line speed.
2) All the 6 series cost more than the 5 series. A big part of it is exclusivity and lower production numbers. 650 coupe costs 75K. 550 sedan costs 58.5K. You do get a small performance edge from the M6 being 100lbs lighter, but it's not what buyers care about.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: Arkaign
the M6 is a convertible and weighs about 250lbs less than the M5. (3769 v.s. 4012lbs)

Actually, the M6 is also available as a coupe.

And you have the weights wrong, the M6 Convertible weighs 4398 lbs, the M5 weighs 4012 lbs and the M6 Coupe is lightest of all at 3909 lbs. BMW did all it could to make the overweight 6 series a lean, mean racing M machine. Check out the M6 Coupe's carbon-fiber roof!

I've driven both the M5 and the M6 coupe; they're brutal machines that demand constant attention both to drive and shift properly using the SMG transmission.

Still, either one will bring a huge grin to your face when you stomp on the right pedal!

3769 for coupe
4419 for drop top (GD! that's a lot of extra weight)

Where did they get those numbers? Maybe for the European model?

Anyway, you bet they had to add a lot of weight to the convertible, the 6 series is a very long, heavy vehicle (its essentially the 5 platform in a coupe package) so cutting off the roof required huge amounts of structural reinforcement to prevent flex. Same old story with convertibles--wind in your hair equals pounds on the ground. (This clever phrase is copyrighted by Woofmeister and may not be used without his express written permission):laugh:


Edit--I figured it out, RSportscars is using the 2005 model weight, not the 2007. You can see the "2005" in parenthesis right here.

Yeah, those numbers are clearly off. You can check the BMW weights in any one of their sites, not just the US site.

 

[senseamp]

No offense to M5, but I'd rather have the Pontiac G6 for less than half the price with a 6 speed manual, when it comes stateside. I think that car is more of where M5 was before the redesign, just pure fun car, without the fancy techno distractions that add to the price while taking away from the driving experience. At this point, the BMW pricing is pretty much what it can squeeze out of the market, not based on value for the dollar. There are a lot of rich yuppies who don't really care about the price all that much. It's more of a "if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it" attitude, not a place for value conscious buyer to be shopping around.

 

[exdeath]

BMW's M = Intel's "Extreme" label? ie: same chip but with 900% markup 'just because'

One reason never to buy new car no matter how much money you have. You can get a supercharged S55 AMG for like $30-40k, what did they cost when they first came out?

How much can you get a P4 Netburst "Extreme Edition" chip for right now? $10?

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: senseamp
No offense to M5, but I'd rather have the Pontiac G6 for less than half the price with a 6 speed manual, when it comes stateside. I think that car is more of where M5 was before the redesign, just pure fun car, without the fancy techno distractions that add to the price while taking away from the driving experience. At this point, the BMW pricing is pretty much what it can squeeze out of the market, not based on value for the dollar. There are a lot of rich yuppies who don't really care about the price all that much. It's more of a "if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it" attitude, not a place for value conscious buyer to be shopping around.

I'm guessing you mean G8 right?

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: senseamp
No offense to M5, but I'd rather have the Pontiac G6 for less than half the price with a 6 speed manual, when it comes stateside. I think that car is more of where M5 was before the redesign, just pure fun car, without the fancy techno distractions that add to the price while taking away from the driving experience. At this point, the BMW pricing is pretty much what it can squeeze out of the market, not based on value for the dollar. There are a lot of rich yuppies who don't really care about the price all that much. It's more of a "if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it" attitude, not a place for value conscious buyer to be shopping around.

I'll take the GTO. Poor man's M5. I wanted a M5 for the longest time after I rode my friend's M5 back in 2000. That was a good looking M5. Current M5 is ugly IMO.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Few peple know but the 335i has a pretty weak suspension and drivetrain. 335 uses an open differential which is not verry good for keeping the power down around curves.

The M3 is a complete package with high performance everything right out the box.