Are 42" IPS 120Hz TV's using the same tech as 27" IPS 120Hz monitors?

[mathew70]

For instance there is a ASUS monitor that is 144Hz but it cost nearly as much as a 42" 120Hz TV.
http://www.asus.com/us/Monitors_Projectors/ROG_SWIFT_PG278Q/

So I was thinking it would maybe make more sense to buy the TV.
The ASUS has a 1ms response rating though, and Im sure the TV is much slower than that, so yeah Im not sure which option to choose...

 

[Cerb]

A 120Hz monitor is 120Hz, as in capable of gaming at up to 120FPS. Ditto for 144Hz monitors. The overall color quality is poor compared to slower IPS monitors, but you can get more fluid gameplay. If you're going to have the CPU and GPU power to be pushing 60FPS at the resolution in question, they are worth serious consideration.

A 120Hz TV is capable of interpolating 30p/60i into 120 frames per second, which I personally find nauseating to watch, from the demo TVs I've seen.

They mean entirely different things.

 

[mike5757]

The problem with 120 Hz TVs is that a lot of them won't accept a native 120 Hz signal. Some 120 Hz TVs will accept a 120 Hz input with a workaround (http://www.blurbusters.com/overclock/120hz-pc-to-tv/).

It would be a really bad idea to use the motion interpolation feature when playing video games since that would add a significant amount of input lag. Actually, even with that disabled, there is still a large amount of image processing that causes a delay before the image gets displayed on the TV's screen.

It varies how you disable all of that extra image processing from TV to TV. On my Samsung TV, you have to rename the input to "PC". Most TVs have a game mode that may or may not disable all of the extra processing that PC monitors don't have. For example, my TV doesn't disable overscan in game mode which is horrible for image quality since something that was at the native resolution of the screen is now being rescaled.

There's also an issue where some graphics cards may not send full RGB colors (0-255) to a TV, and instead use limited RGB colors (16-235). My Nvidia card, and most Nvidia cards are known for doing this. There's a third party utility I used to make my card send full RGB.

Overall, a giant pain in the butt.

 

[alcoholbob]

There's also an issue where some graphics cards may not send full RGB colors (0-255) to a TV, and instead use limited RGB colors (16-235). My Nvidia card, and most Nvidia cards are known for doing this. There's a third party utility I used to make my card send full RGB.

Overall, a giant pain in the butt.

Isn't that an issue with Nvidia and HDMI output? I don't think it discriminates between monitors and TVs.

 

[mathew70]

So if I understand correctly, you're saying it's doubtful a TV with a 120Hz panel will accept 120Hz signal from a PC?

 

[mike5757]

If you really want to use a TV as a 120 Hz monitor, you can look up which models will work with that workaround I linked. My point is you'll get inferior picture quality out of the box compared to a PC monitor, and it will take some doing to make it as it should be. Plus the model you get might have extra input lag which may hinder your gaming which is a main selling point of a 120+ Hz monitor. I'm sure there's a forum somewhere where some gamers have compared the input lag of various HDTVs that accept 120 Hz signals.

 

[Cerb]

So if I understand correctly, you're saying it's doubtful a TV with a 120Hz panel will accept 120Hz signal from a PC?

A 120Hz TV is not using any special "120Hz" panel.

The panel has its pixels changed at intervals. It takes time to go from one color to the next, usually several ms.

The video signal is a stream of of pixels of a frame, from top to bottom. A TV typically reads this at 30FPS.

The LCD driver reads the frame into memory, and updates the pixels to match it. However, it can change the values of pixels faster than that. It likely cannot process incoming HDMI or DVI video streams any faster, though.

A 120Hz TV is applying processing to the incoming signal to interpolate between frames and make up intermediate frames. So, it takes in 30p or 60i and figures out the points in between those frames to try to make smoother motion, by displaying more frames. They often do not use any faster panels than other TVs.

A 120Hz PC monitor takes up to 120FPS of input video signal, and displays it. Doing so and looking good requires a fast panel. A complete non-marketing-spec gray-to-gray time of 8ms or better is needed to make 120Hz really work.

As a bonus, most 120+Hz monitors are made as gaming monitors, and have very low input lag, where TVs often have high input lag, on account of being made to perform a bunch of processing to the video stream.

 

[mathew70]

I used to have a 42" plasma and it had a 50Hz and a 100Hz mode.
So when I had the TV set at 100Hz it was actually just 50Hz but the TV
was creating extra frames?

Sorry for all the questions :whiste:

This monitor by ASUS seems excellent:
ASUS RoG Swift PG278Q - G-Sync, 144hz, 1440p Monitor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdqTIfNv2DE

 

[Cerb]

There will be a lot of color shift, and contrast will be low (the fastest panels have always been TN), being TN.

For that trade off, you can get lower response times and smoother gameplay, with a sufficiently powerful system.

 

[Throckmorton]

A 120Hz monitor is 120Hz, as in capable of gaming at up to 120FPS. Ditto for 144Hz monitors. The overall color quality is poor compared to slower IPS monitors, but you can get more fluid gameplay. If you're going to have the CPU and GPU power to be pushing 60FPS at the resolution in question, they are worth serious consideration.

A 120Hz TV is capable of interpolating 30p/60i into 120 frames per second, which I personally find nauseating to watch, from the demo TVs I've seen.

They mean entirely different things.

But the panel on the TV is actually capable of 120hz... So why is 120hz impossible for IPS monitors?

 

[mike5757]

But the panel on the TV is actually capable of 120hz... So why is 120hz impossible for IPS monitors?

It's not impossible for 120 Hz TV panels to display a native 120 Hz signal, it's just that most TV manufacturers don't bother supporting it. The TV doesn't report to the graphics card that it's capable of displaying 120 Hz, even if it can.

 

[Cerb]

But the panel on the TV is actually capable of 120hz... So why is 120hz impossible for IPS monitors?

The receiver and LCD driver need to support it, and then be configured for it. Very few do.

 

[Throckmorton]

It's not impossible for 120 Hz TV panels to display a native 120 Hz signal, it's just that most TV manufacturers don't bother supporting it. The TV doesn't report to the graphics card that it's capable of displaying 120 Hz, even if it can.

I mean the panel supports 120hz. They do that so 24fps and 30fps are both evenly divided so for TV purposes 120hz input doesn't matter.

But it seems like some gargantuan task for a monitor IPS panel to actually do 120hz. AFAIK there is not a single IPS monitor that can actually do 120hz. Obviously it's not a hurdle for the controller hardware because TN 120hz monitors are common. It's the panel that can't do 120hz. So why can TVs do it?

 

[mike5757]

I mean the panel supports 120hz. They do that so 24fps and 30fps are both evenly divided so for TV purposes 120hz input doesn't matter.

But it seems like some gargantuan task for a monitor IPS panel to actually do 120hz. AFAIK there is not a single IPS monitor that can actually do 120hz. Obviously it's not a hurdle for the controller hardware because TN 120hz monitors are common. It's the panel that can't do 120hz. So why can TVs do it?

I think the reason for there being no 120 Hz IPS computer monitors except for the Korean overclocked panels is because there isn't much of a market for it. Gamers are the only large group that wants 120 Hz, and they care about refresh rate as well as pixel response time which IPS doesn't do as well. Gamers are also willing to use the poorer viewing angle TN panels since they're going to be front and center looking at the monitor, whereas with a TV you often have multiple viewers that aren't looking at the display head-on.

On a slightly related note, Eizo does make a 120 Hz VA type panel computer monitor. This is surprising since VA is actually known for having even worse pixel response times than IPS. I suppose the excellent contrast ratio makes up for that.