Are brass knuckles really illegal for self defense?

[CZroe]

I'm finding conflicting information online regarding the legality of brass knuckles in my state (Georgia). Of course it is illegal to conceal them without a concealed weapons permit.

Now, other than the people saying that they are out-right illegal without anything to back that up (jumping to conclusions?), I've seen it said time and time again that they are not illegal until you use them on someone and then it is "assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill" no matter what (as if they are particularly deadly). But no, it's no different than a baseball bat in that regard. Baseball bats aren't illegal, but if you attack someone, it depends on the context (self-defense vs. aggression). Just like brass knuckles carried unconcealed, a baseball bat also works as a nice deterrent. Why would it be legal to use a gun for self defense and not a less-deadly more defense-type weapon like knuckles? Does the right to bear arms only apply to projectiles?

Anyway, this was prompted because a family member gave my twin brother and I each a set of brass knuckles many years ago and told us to keep them in the car for self-defense, and I need something light-weight now that I am going to be riding a motorcycle. In my car, I've been pulled over a few times since for traffic reasons and they have been plainly visible but they have never been discussed or caused me any legal trouble. I've even carried them into stores more than once when I realized I was still holding them after exiting my car (putting them in my pocket was illegal). No one has ever said a thing.

I asked a former sherriff and a wanna-be sherriff but still active in law-enforcement guy (runs every time an election happens) both of whom I work with: one didn't answer while the other just said "uh, I would think they'd be illegal." Hmm, nothing conclusive.

I see websites exclusively dedicated to selling them as a personal protective device and yet they don't have anything expressing their legality. Funny.

I'm a weakling that couldn't do a damn thing if the average criminal attacked me or tried to force me to do something. I can't think of a more perfect way to even the odds in self-defense if my attacker did not have a gun, and it seems too perfect for riding to just assume that it is illegal and not get that answered right now. So, will they go on teaching women to punch with their keys in their self defense classes but a man can't even use a less-destructive tool (keys tear flesh)?

 

[Maximus96]

punch them in the eye with keys between fingers.

 

[Gamingphreek]

May depend on the state, but I am almost 100% certain that brass knuckles are illegal.

Edit: As for the baseball bat idea-- you are kidding yourself.

Baseball bats have a primary purpose to play baseball. If you go up and whack someone with it you get "Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" just the same. Brass Knuckles are different because the primary purpose is to HURT someone!

 

[QurazyQuisp]

You should be like every other ATOTer. Purchase like 5-6 handguns, and hide them on various parts of your body so you can easily grab one if you're ever assaulted.

 

[jlee]

If brass knuckles are considered deadly force, why not just get a CCW..?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Yes, they are illegal period.

You can buy them online but a place selling them put this disclaimer in their ad:

Brass Knuckles of any material are not legal and therefore cannot be sold to people in the states of: MA,CA,NY,MI,RI and IL
Metallic Knuckles may not be sold to FL.

Note: We can only ship brass knuckles to the billing address of the paying credit card, ie, dual address orders are not allowed. If you are caught with these in your possession, you may get in trouble with the law.

 

[Raizinman]

If you get attacked, put your finger down your throat and vomit all over yourself and wallet. No thief will then want it. I knew one biker (Schwin) who use to keep his wallet in his underwear, as when he got robbed, nobody wanted his wallet.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
You should be like every other ATOTer. Purchase like 5-6 handguns, and hide them on various parts of your body so you can easily grab one if you're ever assaulted.

If I wasn't at work I would find a video of a kid about 12 years old that has guns concealed on him. He pulls out a solid 10 different guns, including a rifle (or shotgun forget which).

edit: Found it

 

[JulesMaximus]

Grrr....stupid opera.

 

[CZroe]

It is not illegal to shoot someone in self defense. Similarly, it is not aggrivated assault to hit someone in self defense with or without an object. The only reason to hold brass knuckles to any other standard is because they are so easily concealable, so please point me to the law that specifically holds them to a different standard.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
May depend on the state, but I am almost 100% certain that brass knuckles are illegal.

Edit: As for the baseball bat idea-- you are kidding yourself.

Baseball bats have a primary purpose to play baseball. If you go up and whack someone with it you get "Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" just the same. Brass Knuckles are different because the primary purpose is to HURT someone!

Says YOU. Don't jump to conclusions. The primary purpose in self-defense is to DETER, just like the threat of pepper-spray vs. using it (you are threatening with PAIN). Regardless, the right to bear arms specifically refers to the "primary purpose" as a weapon, so causing harm DOES NOT EQUATE TO ILLEGALITY! I wish people would understand that the right to bear arms isn't "for hunting." You use a baseball bat on someone attacking you with whatever and it's self defense because you didn't "aggrivate" anything: You ended it. Defending yourself with a baseball bat is not assault. Once again, to claim that a baseball bat is illegal is to ASSUME that it is being used as a weapon in an aggrivated assault. It could be ANYTHING. If someone attacked you so you grabbed a 2x4 and hit back, it's no different. You aren't a criminal.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Yes, they are illegal period.

You can buy them online but a place selling them put this disclaimer in their ad:

Brass Knuckles of any material are not legal and therefore cannot be sold to people in the states of: MA,CA,NY,MI,RI and IL
Metallic Knuckles may not be sold to FL.

Note: We can only ship brass knuckles to the billing address of the paying credit card, ie, dual address orders are not allowed. If you are caught with these in your possession, you may get in trouble with the law.

Are they claiming to know the legality for all countries? Why is it legal to ship to any other state than those listed? It's clearly not illegal to own, so it's STILL a vague and useless statement that doesn't explain exactly WHAT is illegal.

This is why I'm here. I need a specific law or code and not vague "they are illegal" statements.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

They have been illegal for a long time. Just go old school and carry a couple rolls of quarters in your pocket.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Legal or not...

That's from the state itself.

Not legal to conceal. Legal if you carry openly. Doesn't say anything about using it defensively.

I imagine if you ever used them in a defensive situation you'd be in a world of shit. Even if legal.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Legal or not...

That's from the state itself.

Not legal to conceal. Legal if you carry openly. Doesn't say anything about using it defensively.

I imagine if you ever used them in a defensive situation you'd be in a world of shit. Even if legal.

What, like I'm going to stand around an armed mugger and wait for the police after hitting him?

What criminal is going to press charges after I used it only to get away? Yeah, I can imagine some shit-storm scenarios but, for the scenario that it is most needed for, I doubt that is a concern.

Thanks a bunch. Reading it now.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Legal or not...

That's from the state itself.

Not legal to conceal. Legal if you carry openly. Doesn't say anything about using it defensively.

I imagine if you ever used them in a defensive situation you'd be in a world of shit. Even if legal.

What, like I'm going to stand around an armed mugger and wait for the police after hitting him?

What criminal is going to press charges after I used it only to get away? Yeah, I can imagine some shit-storm scenarios but, for the scenario that it is most needed for, I doubt that is a concern.

Thanks a bunch. Reading it now.

Well, he can prove you knocked the shit out of him, can you prove he was trying to rob you? Sounds like a pretty good idea to sue you if I were him...

If it were a jury trial how do you think the average juror would look at brass knuckles? You ever hear about them in the news about stopping an attack? Or is it always in a bad light? How about in movies or on TV? Brass knuckles are what the bad guys use. You might as well wear a black cowboy hat too I'm not saying it's fair or right, just what you'd be up against if you ever have to use it.

 

[jonks]

3 o'clock high

sometimes illegal or not, you damn well need em!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: CZroe
It is not illegal to shoot someone in self defense. Similarly, it is not aggrivated assault to hit someone in self defense with or without an object. The only reason to hold brass knuckles to any other standard is because they are so easily concealable, so please point me to the law that specifically holds them to a different standard.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
May depend on the state, but I am almost 100% certain that brass knuckles are illegal.

Edit: As for the baseball bat idea-- you are kidding yourself.

Baseball bats have a primary purpose to play baseball. If you go up and whack someone with it you get "Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" just the same. Brass Knuckles are different because the primary purpose is to HURT someone!

Says YOU. Don't jump to conclusions. The primary purpose in self-defense is to DETER, just like the threat of pepper-spray vs. using it (you are threatening with PAIN). Regardless, the right to bear arms specifically refers to the "primary purpose" as a weapon, so causing harm DOES NOT EQUATE TO ILLEGALITY! I wish people would understand that the right to bear arms isn't "for hunting." You use a baseball bat on someone attacking you with whatever and it's self defense because you didn't "aggrivate" anything: You ended it. Defending yourself with a baseball bat is not assault. Once again, to claim that a baseball bat is illegal is to ASSUME that it is being used as a weapon in an aggrivated assault. It could be ANYTHING. If someone attacked you so you grabbed a 2x4 and hit back, it's no different. You aren't a criminal.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Yes, they are illegal period.

You can buy them online but a place selling them put this disclaimer in their ad:

Brass Knuckles of any material are not legal and therefore cannot be sold to people in the states of: MA,CA,NY,MI,RI and IL
Metallic Knuckles may not be sold to FL.

Note: We can only ship brass knuckles to the billing address of the paying credit card, ie, dual address orders are not allowed. If you are caught with these in your possession, you may get in trouble with the law.

Are they claiming to know the legality for all countries? Why is it legal to ship to any other state than those listed? It's clearly not illegal to own, so it's STILL a vague and useless statement that doesn't explain exactly WHAT is illegal.

This is why I'm here. I need a specific law or code and not vague "they are illegal" statements.

I would say that there is probably a law for those states which specifically says you cannot ship these even as novelty items as well as it being illegal to even possess them in those states.

I don't know about Georgia though.

 

[Juddog]

Georgia state law:
They're not illegal per se, but it is a crime to carry them concealed (OCGA 16-11-126) and it's illegal to have them within 1000 feet of a school (OCGA 16-11-127.1).

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: Juddog
Georgia state law:
They're not illegal per se, but it is a crime to carry them concealed (OCGA 16-11-126) and it's illegal to have them within 1000 feet of a school (OCGA 16-11-127.1).

Thanks. I wonder if this means I can't drive through a school zone (lazy left eye makes me a bad distance estimator).

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Legal or not...

That's from the state itself.

Not legal to conceal. Legal if you carry openly. Doesn't say anything about using it defensively.

I imagine if you ever used them in a defensive situation you'd be in a world of shit. Even if legal.

What, like I'm going to stand around an armed mugger and wait for the police after hitting him?

What criminal is going to press charges after I used it only to get away? Yeah, I can imagine some shit-storm scenarios but, for the scenario that it is most needed for, I doubt that is a concern.

Thanks a bunch. Reading it now.

Well, he can prove you knocked the shit out of him, can you prove he was trying to rob you? Sounds like a pretty good idea to sue you if I were him...

If it were a jury trial how do you think the average juror would look at brass knuckles? You ever hear about them in the news about stopping an attack? Or is it always in a bad light? How about in movies or on TV? Brass knuckles are what the bad guys use. You might as well wear a black cowboy hat too I'm not saying it's fair or right, just what you'd be up against if you ever have to use it.

Muggers don't mug people they know! They mug someone who can't identify them. Besides, usage is obviously a "judgement call" thing depending on the situation. You can be sure that I'll hold them when I am using the ATM alone at night (I wouldn't walk up in a line holding them, no). If someone steps out from behind the unit to rob me (not usually done without a weapon!), there's now also video evidence that he was mugging me. Yes, I am aware of "how it looks" to a jury, just like I am aware or how it looks for a man to carry pepper spray (which is why I don't). I have a clean record and, if I ended up in such a situation, I would strive to change the perception.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I'd personally suggest a can of Fox Labs spray. Fucker won't know what hit him. Fists are only good if you land a hit. I don't want to have to get close enough to someone to try. And even then it may take multiple hits. One shot of Fox and they are out of it.

 

[everman]

How about sap gloves? Not concealed if you're wearing them, and might be useful when riding a motorcycle anyways.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
I'd personally suggest a can of Fox Labs spray. Fucker won't know what hit him. Fists are only good if you land a hit. I don't want to have to get close enough to someone to try. And even then it may take multiple hits. One shot of Fox and they are out of it.

I may just have to "man down" and get something like that if knucks aren't feasible.

Originally posted by: everman
How about sap gloves? Not concealed if you're wearing them, and might be useful when riding a motorcycle anyways.

What are they? Could your average criminal recognize them and possibly be deterred?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: CZroe
It is not illegal to shoot someone in self defense. Similarly, it is not aggrivated assault to hit someone in self defense with or without an object. The only reason to hold brass knuckles to any other standard is because they are so easily concealable, so please point me to the law that specifically holds them to a different standard.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
May depend on the state, but I am almost 100% certain that brass knuckles are illegal.

Edit: As for the baseball bat idea-- you are kidding yourself.

Baseball bats have a primary purpose to play baseball. If you go up and whack someone with it you get "Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" just the same. Brass Knuckles are different because the primary purpose is to HURT someone!

Says YOU. Don't jump to conclusions. The primary purpose in self-defense is to DETER, just like the threat of pepper-spray vs. using it (you are threatening with PAIN). Regardless, the right to bear arms specifically refers to the "primary purpose" as a weapon, so causing harm DOES NOT EQUATE TO ILLEGALITY! I wish people would understand that the right to bear arms isn't "for hunting." You use a baseball bat on someone attacking you with whatever and it's self defense because you didn't "aggrivate" anything: You ended it. Defending yourself with a baseball bat is not assault. Once again, to claim that a baseball bat is illegal is to ASSUME that it is being used as a weapon in an aggrivated assault. It could be ANYTHING. If someone attacked you so you grabbed a 2x4 and hit back, it's no different. You aren't a criminal.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Yes, they are illegal period.

You can buy them online but a place selling them put this disclaimer in their ad:

Brass Knuckles of any material are not legal and therefore cannot be sold to people in the states of: MA,CA,NY,MI,RI and IL
Metallic Knuckles may not be sold to FL.

Note: We can only ship brass knuckles to the billing address of the paying credit card, ie, dual address orders are not allowed. If you are caught with these in your possession, you may get in trouble with the law.

Are they claiming to know the legality for all countries? Why is it legal to ship to any other state than those listed? It's clearly not illegal to own, so it's STILL a vague and useless statement that doesn't explain exactly WHAT is illegal.

This is why I'm here. I need a specific law or code and not vague "they are illegal" statements.

Look into "criminal possession of a weapon." Here in NY, it is plain illegal to possess brass knuckles. At the very least, you can be charged with criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
May depend on the state, but I am almost 100% certain that brass knuckles are illegal.

Edit: As for the baseball bat idea-- you are kidding yourself.

Baseball bats have a primary purpose to play baseball. If you go up and whack someone with it you get "Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" just the same. Brass Knuckles are different because the primary purpose is to HURT someone!

ironically youll get the same charge if you attempt to run someone over with a vehicle.

as for the brass knuckles, unless you know how to punch with them youre better off with a taser hanging on your belt. not an air taser, the up close and personal one. i also have no idea if they are legal or not. switchblades are federally illegal but here in az you can carry them openly, as long as they arent concealed. i carry one on me, but mainly as a work tool. i also have a handgun i carry, but theres more chance ill scrap hand to hand before pulling either. 2 decades of carrying both, and ive pulled my handgun in defense once. the switchblade has been out, but usually things calmed down quickly after. the only time ive pulled that was when odds were severely stacked against me.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Legal or not...

That's from the state itself.

Not legal to conceal. Legal if you carry openly. Doesn't say anything about using it defensively.

I imagine if you ever used them in a defensive situation you'd be in a world of shit. Even if legal.

What, like I'm going to stand around an armed mugger and wait for the police after hitting him?

What criminal is going to press charges after I used it only to get away? Yeah, I can imagine some shit-storm scenarios but, for the scenario that it is most needed for, I doubt that is a concern.

Thanks a bunch. Reading it now.

if youre up against an armed mugger, youre better off just letting him get away. if you already have them on your hand and he gives you an easy open, take it and run. there is a very fine line between defending yourself and assault, even if youre defending your life. my friend served 10 years on that difference. he shot someone that was assaulting and getting ready to rape his girlfriend in a parking lot after the guy pulled a gun on him. the first shot was self defense, but the 5 after made it murder 3 i guess. he was in an adrenaline buzz from it, and the guy seemed to point the gun at him after he shot him the first time. judge didnt care and gave him 15 years, served 10 of it.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: JLee
If brass knuckles are considered deadly force, why not just get a CCW..?

you can usually carry non-guns more places. Also a gun is really a crappy melee weapon.

A knife is much better up close.