Are brass knuckles really illegal for self defense?

[Tobolo]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Legal or not...

That's from the state itself.

Not legal to conceal. Legal if you carry openly. Doesn't say anything about using it defensively.

I imagine if you ever used them in a defensive situation you'd be in a world of shit. Even if legal.

can't carry knives in georgia? wtf..

Can't be concealed over 3in.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

pistol whip them. Its just as effective.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Tobolo

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Legal or not...

That's from the state itself.

Not legal to conceal. Legal if you carry openly. Doesn't say anything about using it defensively.

I imagine if you ever used them in a defensive situation you'd be in a world of shit. Even if legal.

can't carry knives in georgia? wtf..

Can't be concealed over 3in.

like many places due to cowards.

 

[duragezic]

Same sort of laws as with those retractable batons I believe. Those things are badass.

Though I have watched alot of The Unit.

 

[irishScott]

Just buy a knife if you really want self-defense. Plus you can legally carry those (up to a certain length depending on state laws).

Suffice to say any weapon you have to draw is going to be useless for all intents and purposes in a typical mugging. You will either be outnumbered, outgunned, caught by suprise, and more than likely all 3 (especially "caught by suprise"). You won't have time/room to draw shit. Also, if you're untrained and caught by surprise, you'll be too busy shitting your pants to think about drawing anything.

I say a knife (and by knife I mean a >=3" boot knife) because in the event that you are caught by surpise, if you manage to draw it a knife is immediately deadly and hard for your assailant to control; whereas most other weapons have to be aimed, or in the case of brass knuckles require force.

And you say you can't really throw a punch? If that's the case, I can assure you that brass knuckles will only make your attacker that much more pissed. They may harden the punch, but if the punch has no force, the bonus is minimal. Nevermind the fact that even the most untrained guy can typically block a punch, brass knuckles or no.

If you have a few seconds warning of a mugging for some reason or other, you GTFO of there. Don't fight unless you have to. Ever.

#1 best defense: Take a H2H self defense class. Not Karate or Taekwondo, combat/street defense. I reccomend Krav Maga. http://www.kravmaga.com/krav01.html

Edit: A gun is useful if you know you're going into a fight, but all but useless in a surprise close-quarters attack.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Just buy a knife if you really want self-defense. Plus you can legally carry those (up to a certain length depending on state laws).

Suffice to say any weapon you have to draw is going to be useless for all intents and purposes in a typical mugging. You will either be outnumbered, outgunned, caught by suprise, and more than likely all 3 (especially "caught by suprise"). You won't have time/room to draw shit. Also, if you're untrained and caught by surprise, you'll be too busy shitting your pants to think about drawing anything.

I say a knife (and by knife I mean a >=3" boot knife) because in the event that you are caught by surpise, if you manage to draw it a knife is immediately deadly and hard for your assailant to control; whereas most other weapons have to be aimed, or in the case of brass knuckles require force.

And you say you can't really throw a punch? If that's the case, I can assure you that brass knuckles will only make your attacker that much more pissed. They may harden the punch, but if the punch has no force, the bonus is minimal. Nevermind the fact that even the most untrained guy can typically block a punch, brass knuckles or no.

If you have a few seconds warning of a mugging for some reason or other, you GTFO of there. Don't fight unless you have to. Ever.

#1 best defense: Take a H2H self defense class. Not Karate or Taekwondo, combat/street defense. I reccomend Krav Maga. http://www.kravmaga.com/krav01.html

Edit: A gun is useful if you know you're going into a fight, but all but useless in a surprise close-quarters attack.

Most states you can't conceal a fixed blade knife or a knife with a blade >3 inches. OP check local laws and get 2 tanto blade knives that you can flick out easily (practice, practice, practice). That should do it.

 

[zach0624]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: thepd7
2nd: You shoot to stop. 6 times does not stop someone any more than 3. Unless someone is wearing body armor there is no reason to ever shoot them more than 3 times in the body with a decent caliber (.380+).

There are numerous documented cases of individuals absorbing 10 or more 9mm rounds to the center mass and continuing to attack. Even when hit by something like a .357 Magnum in a vulnerable area it can take a person 60 seconds or more to bleed out, during which time it is not uncommon for the assailant to continue the attack. There is even a case where a person was sleeping, shot 5 times with a .357 Magnum, SAT UP and only died when the 6th shot hit him in the head.

Most of the time, 3 hits will be enough, or more than enough to end a threat, but there are so many variables that your statement claiming no more than 3 shots will ever be required is patently absurd.

Anyone depending on a handgun to completely stop a threat is an idiot. Sometimes it can, and it is definitely one more tool to tip the balance in your favor should the worst happen, but it is very, very far from being able to guarantee the stoppage of an attack, even with several shots on target.

ZV

My grandpa has told me stories about japanese soldiers in WW2 that were shot multiple times with an M1 and get charging. 5 times especially for the situation was something that any decent lawyer could explain and while probably a little excessive understandable in the situation. If my girl was about to get raped I would shoot him in a more important place than the chest. 5 shots to the chest would probably be a relief.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: irishScott
If you have a few seconds warning of a mugging for some reason or other, you GTFO of there. Don't fight unless you have to. Ever.

#1 best defense: Take a H2H self defense class. Not Karate or Taekwondo, combat/street defense. I reccomend Krav Maga. http://www.kravmaga.com/krav01.html

Edit: A gun is useful if you know you're going into a fight, but all but useless in a surprise close-quarters attack.

Second that.

 

[CrimsonChaos]

Originally posted by: Delita

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: QurazyQuisp
You should be like every other ATOTer. Purchase like 5-6 handguns, and hide them on various parts of your body so you can easily grab one if you're ever assaulted.

If I wasn't at work I would find a video of a kid about 12 years old that has guns concealed on him. He pulls out a solid 10 different guns, including a rifle (or shotgun forget which).

edit: Found it

That is retarded. If the kid have moved at all it would have been extremely obvious he was carrying.

And obviously dress-code is the solution. Dress code will prevent people from packing weapons. </sarcasm>

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: thepd7
2nd: You shoot to stop. 6 times does not stop someone any more than 3. Unless someone is wearing body armor there is no reason to ever shoot them more than 3 times in the body with a decent caliber (.380+).

There are numerous documented cases of individuals absorbing 10 or more 9mm rounds to the center mass and continuing to attack. Even when hit by something like a .357 Magnum in a vulnerable area it can take a person 60 seconds or more to bleed out, during which time it is not uncommon for the assailant to continue the attack. There is even a case where a person was sleeping, shot 5 times with a .357 Magnum, SAT UP and only died when the 6th shot hit him in the head.

Most of the time, 3 hits will be enough, or more than enough to end a threat, but there are so many variables that your statement claiming no more than 3 shots will ever be required is patently absurd.

Anyone depending on a handgun to completely stop a threat is an idiot. Sometimes it can, and it is definitely one more tool to tip the balance in your favor should the worst happen, but it is very, very far from being able to guarantee the stoppage of an attack, even with several shots on target.

ZV

Please link to any documented cases where someone continued to attack after 10 or more rounds of 9mm to the core (stomach/chest). Also, please link any cases where someone continued to attack after being hit in a vulnerable area (head or vital organ) with a .357 Magnum. Also, please link to the case where someone was shot 5 times with a .357 Magnum and was still alive.

Please provide inconclusive proof that these events actually occured as well. I am extremely curious how these are documented accurately (especially the last one).

What is it that you suggest to stop an attack if not a handgun? I can guarantee you that with several shots on target I will stop anyone attacking me. I have 16 rounds of 9mm Hollow Points. If I hit you 2-3 times your insides will be torn to shreds.


Yes saying more than 3 shots will never be required is wrong, I should have qualified with 99.9% of the time there is no reason to shoot a person more than three times (not fire, but actually hit).

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This must be the reason thepd7 always accuses me of making stuff up...good thing he isn't a judge somewhere ruling on self-defense cases.

Eh, you make it too easy for me by always talking out your ass.

 

[Aquaman]

Get a set of these but more heavy duty

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Eeezee]

Why would brass knuckles be illegal? I don't get it. How can they be more dangerous than a knife or a gun? If guns are legal, brass knuckles may as well be legal too...

And brass knuckles get bonus points for being more popular in the 20s and 30s! Geeze, what a world we live in.

 

[JoeBleed]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Why would brass knuckles be illegal? I don't get it. How can they be more dangerous than a knife or a gun? If guns are legal, brass knuckles may as well be legal too...

Probalby the same reasons the old assault weapons ban had so many little stupid rules in it.

"They are scarry"

Weak people in this world these days, weak, scared, and easy to heard.

My small town advice says to carry what ever you want besides a fully automatic weapon, unless you have a class 3 licens of corse. ) and dont concern yourself with legality as much. As you are, of corse, a law abiding citizen and will only use it for self defence, you can likly get most of those charges droped or drasticly reduced with a good lawyer.

As for legality of brass nucks. well, they sell them at about every gun show i go to. I personlay don't like the way they feel on my hands so i have never looked into it. Besides, something simular to brass nucks i have seen latly is made of a tough placit like material and the contact edge is formed like a wedge or dull ax bade. Would be much more effective at sopping and attack than the nucks.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: thepd7


Yes saying more than 3 shots will never be required is wrong, I should have qualified with 99.9% of the time there is no reason to shoot a person more than three times (not fire, but actually hit).

Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about. People will continue to fight on after receiving copious amounts of fire.

A case in Pennsylvania:
11/29/2006
3 Officers Involved in the shooter
1 18 year old male

Police: Glock 22/Speer 180 gr. Gold Dot
M4/Hornady TAP 55 gr. carried
by tactical (SWAT) officers.
M4/Hornady TAP 75 gr. carried
by patrol officers.

Assailant: One pistol/.45 Auto

3 officers were involved in a shooting this week. An ambush was set up for the officers prior to their arrival, they took fire while still in their cruisers. One officer was hit in the forearm, another received wounds to his forehead from a ricochet, another was injured (NFI). The suspect was armed with a .45 handgun. The officers were armed with Glock 22's and SPEER 180 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Points.

Officers fired on the subject and hit him in the left arm, completely shattering the bone. He was also hit five times in the chest and abdomen. All rounds penetrated less than 1". All of the rounds expanded fully but did not cause incapacitation due to the lack of penetration. According to the Medical Examiner, none of the rounds caused any life threatening injuries. The subject also received one round into the front of his throat, it penetrated less than 1" as well. The Medical Examiner stated that the recovered rounds were in pristine condition (still had rifling marks on them).

The subject was wearing a down jacket at the time of the incident. He was finally taken down after receiving rounds from an M-4 .223, with Hornady Tap 55 gr ballistic tip rounds and Hornady Tap 72 gr. Hollow Points.

The officer with the M-4 was able to shoot underneath a vehicle and hit the suspect in the ankle. The officer then flanked the subject, who continued to engage officers, and was eventually killed by the officer with the M-4.

The subject had a trace amount of marijuana in his system.

Range between subject and officers: 20 feet.

Subject had a t-shirt on under his jacket.

Subject received approximately sixteen .223 rounds, thirteen of these rounds went completely through. One round struck his hip and completely shattered it. Another .223 round struck his aorta and another pierced and collapsed his lung. Both of these rounds lodged themselves inside the subject. The Medical Examiner stated that the .223 rounds caused massive internal damage.

This is the second shooting that the PD has experienced where they had to shoot a subject in excess of ten times with .40 S&W ammo to incapacitate or kill. There was another incident where a subject was shot inside of his vehicle. He was struck approximately ten times, all the while continuing to fire at officers. He was eventually killed after suffering a shot to the back of his head. In this same incident, the back of the subject's seat was struck multiple times, the .40 S&W rounds never penetrated through the seat. In this incident, all shots had passed through either the windshield or rear window. Investigators assume that this was the reason for the poor ballistic performance.


Assailant fired 26 rounds and reloaded magazine from box of loose ammunition.

Assailant was shot 17 times with 11 rounds exiting body.

Six .40 S&W rounds, five which expanded, were recovered on autopsy.

It is impossible for .40 S&W 180 gr. JHP ammunition to expand with only 1 in. or less penetration in a human body.

After all .223 rounds had been fired, assailant was hit with 180 gr. Gold Dot in right arm above the elbow.

Officers had to ?fight? assailant in order to get handcuffed.

Determined individuals can sustain many gunshot wounds in areas that produce great pain and continue to fight a long time, even without the aid of drugs or alcohol.





The above was sent out in a powerpoint by the BATF after a shootout. Are you telling me that all their conclusions, based on the above information as well as many other documented cases, are incorrect?

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: thepd7


Yes saying more than 3 shots will never be required is wrong, I should have qualified with 99.9% of the time there is no reason to shoot a person more than three times (not fire, but actually hit).

Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about. People will continue to fight on after receiving copious amounts of fire.

A case in Pennsylvania:
11/29/2006
3 Officers Involved in the shooter
1 18 year old male

Police: Glock 22/Speer 180 gr. Gold Dot
M4/Hornady TAP 55 gr. carried
by tactical (SWAT) officers.
M4/Hornady TAP 75 gr. carried
by patrol officers.

Assailant: One pistol/.45 Auto

3 officers were involved in a shooting this week. An ambush was set up for the officers prior to their arrival, they took fire while still in their cruisers. One officer was hit in the forearm, another received wounds to his forehead from a ricochet, another was injured (NFI). The suspect was armed with a .45 handgun. The officers were armed with Glock 22's and SPEER 180 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Points.

Officers fired on the subject and hit him in the left arm, completely shattering the bone. He was also hit five times in the chest and abdomen. All rounds penetrated less than 1". All of the rounds expanded fully but did not cause incapacitation due to the lack of penetration. According to the Medical Examiner, none of the rounds caused any life threatening injuries. The subject also received one round into the front of his throat, it penetrated less than 1" as well. The Medical Examiner stated that the recovered rounds were in pristine condition (still had rifling marks on them).

The subject was wearing a down jacket at the time of the incident. He was finally taken down after receiving rounds from an M-4 .223, with Hornady Tap 55 gr ballistic tip rounds and Hornady Tap 72 gr. Hollow Points.

The officer with the M-4 was able to shoot underneath a vehicle and hit the suspect in the ankle. The officer then flanked the subject, who continued to engage officers, and was eventually killed by the officer with the M-4.

The subject had a trace amount of marijuana in his system.

Range between subject and officers: 20 feet.

Subject had a t-shirt on under his jacket.

Subject received approximately sixteen .223 rounds, thirteen of these rounds went completely through. One round struck his hip and completely shattered it. Another .223 round struck his aorta and another pierced and collapsed his lung. Both of these rounds lodged themselves inside the subject. The Medical Examiner stated that the .223 rounds caused massive internal damage.

This is the second shooting that the PD has experienced where they had to shoot a subject in excess of ten times with .40 S&W ammo to incapacitate or kill. There was another incident where a subject was shot inside of his vehicle. He was struck approximately ten times, all the while continuing to fire at officers. He was eventually killed after suffering a shot to the back of his head. In this same incident, the back of the subject's seat was struck multiple times, the .40 S&W rounds never penetrated through the seat. In this incident, all shots had passed through either the windshield or rear window. Investigators assume that this was the reason for the poor ballistic performance.


Assailant fired 26 rounds and reloaded magazine from box of loose ammunition.

Assailant was shot 17 times with 11 rounds exiting body.

Six .40 S&W rounds, five which expanded, were recovered on autopsy.

It is impossible for .40 S&W 180 gr. JHP ammunition to expand with only 1 in. or less penetration in a human body.

After all .223 rounds had been fired, assailant was hit with 180 gr. Gold Dot in right arm above the elbow.

Officers had to ?fight? assailant in order to get handcuffed.

Determined individuals can sustain many gunshot wounds in areas that produce great pain and continue to fight a long time, even without the aid of drugs or alcohol.





The above was sent out in a powerpoint by the BATF after a shootout. Are you telling me that all their conclusions, based on the above information as well as many other documented cases, are incorrect?

3 cases in hundreds of thousands, sounds like <.001% to me.

 

[GenHoth]

Originally posted by: thepd7

3 cases in hundreds of thousands, sounds like <.001% to me.

If that is what your life is worth, that is fine. I'm going to keep shooting till he stops moving.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: thepd7

3 cases in hundreds of thousands, sounds like <.001% to me.

You asked for proof, I provided it, you dismiss it. Well, its official, you are retarded.

I'm out.

 

[weaponsuniverse]

Why would brass knuckles be illegal? I don't get it. How can they be more dangerous than a knife or a gun? If guns are legal, brass knuckles may as well be legal too...

And brass knuckles get bonus points for being more popular in the 20s and 30s! Geeze, what a world we live in.

i agree. my great grandpa had a brass knuckle which he used during WW1. unfortunately because of the laws that we have, it was confiscated in an airport.

 

[amdhunter]

i agree. my great grandpa had a brass knuckle which he used during WW1. unfortunately because of the laws that we have, it was confiscated in an airport.

Did they also confiscate his iPod?

 

[mizzou]

the reason the sheriff people you talk to don't know is because they aren't lawyers. Only people who study law will really know what is legal or illegal.

I think brass knuckles are illegal mainly because they are specifically made to cripple/maim the human body. One hit in the head could easily kill you or turn you into a vegetable for the rest of your life, which makes it an assault weapon. But at the same time, it's no more violent then a gun, bat, stick etc., they do have a "stigma" attached to them, like the italian stilleto switchblade, the blackjack, etc. which makes them much more scrutinized because lawmakers are always focusing on what the bad guys are supposedly using.

If you want personal protection, I suggest getting a CCW license which in GA Is probably pretty easy to get. It would also be great for something like in a motorcycle.

 

[Kirby]

I've seen brass knuckles sold as paper-weights.

 

[BoomerD]

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9D0CE2DD1739E433A25752C1A9619C946297D6CF

 

[zerocool1]

If you get attacked, put your finger down your throat and vomit all over yourself and wallet. No thief will then want it. I knew one biker (Schwin) who use to keep his wallet in his underwear, as when he got robbed, nobody wanted his wallet.

and if you have crabs, double duty defense.

 

[darkxshade]

Just get nunchucks

 

[IceBergSLiM]

bottomline is if you pop someone with brass knuckles and they don't die they certainly won't recall who hit them or the 5 minutes leading up to it so you are in the clear.