Are democrats really better than conservatives?

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I'm somewhat known in these parts for aggression against conservatism aka degenerates, and tiresome as it may seem at times there's a certain method, which manifests in the rather altered dynamic of the forum. It's a pretty expectedly thankless task since degenerates obviously despise it, along with many democrats who've come to expect a certain rapport with their counterparts in the american political ecosystem.

Recently since the pickings have become thin with the right or perhaps just out of novelty, I've switched to dealing with democrats who're rather too comfortable with conservatism, in particular the GOP's racist element. As mentioned before in complete candor, this is the much harder nut to crack because political expedience expects party membership to stick together, even if liberals are worse at it.

Or in other words, if it were already unpopular enough to steal away the easy wins many democrats have come to expect in "educating" conservatives who're playing dumb, now I'm putting some of their own on notice. It's yet to be empirically determined how that turns out, but it's hardly met with less backlash than w/ degens.

Now to some degree this comes as no surprise, since political/cultural affiliation is often arbitrary; and much as liberalism and whatnot is taught in school, students don't take to it much as just end up mechanically reciting the lines. Or IOW, average folk who end up democrats or republican just act as circumstances expect, even if significant values often differ as a result.

The few who've made it to this point are prolly wondering what the point is, and how it relates to the title question. Well, the key bit to notice is I've been using the word democrat instead of liberal, because there's little doubt whether the enlightenment was better than the dark ages, but rather are american democrats really better than their counterparts.

To start, they're similarly expected to stick to a certain narrative, even if arguable more factual. They take criticism of that storyline and themselves about as well, which isn't very; and in general the same rules of party politics applies. Are there democrats here able to show how/why they're the more worthy party without defaulting to the usual PR line? Guess we'll see.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,552
15,425
136
I don't take offense when you call out people refusal to call a spade a spade but I do take offense to when you call out people who believe their strategy for achieving policies (you agree with) are different than your own. Refusing to acknowledge facts never ends well, so calling people out on that is ok in my book and it should be ok to those that actually seek the truth. However, strategy is a theory and hardly a perfect one at that so when you go after centrist Democrats it really doesn't help your overall cause. To me its akin to those whose preferred policies are mirrored by both Hillary and Bernie but because your preferred candidate didn't get the party's nomination you decide to vote third party. Its illogical and counterproductive.

Calling out blindness and stupidity is a good thing. Attacking those that share similar views but prefer a different strategy? Not really helpful. In those instances it would be more productive to argue your case at to why a certain strategy would be better off.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,043
136
Are democrats really better than conservatives?

I submit into evidence, this little gem. How is it relevant? It happened in Seattle of all places.

What I'm saying is not all people vote Democrat because they're open minded. They could be single issue voters or have another pressing concern than what you have come to expect from them. That even in an incredibly lopsided +50% margin location, that beautiful signer can still face such discrimination. You think to yourself "I would never treat her that way" and ask "how could the people of Seattle?" Ergo my answer. Democrats are not ALL so liberal as one might have hoped for.

Maybe you have to specify as the term Democrat is too broad?
 

Roflmouth

Golden Member
Oct 5, 2015
1,059
61
46
I'm somewhat known

LOL

in these parts for aggression against conservatism aka degenerates, and tiresome as it may seem at times there's a certain method, which manifests in the rather altered dynamic of the forum.

That would require you to have any effect whatsoever on anything beyond the hair on your palms. Better luck next time.
 

jmagg

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,099
403
126
I'm a minimalist. I work, save, and do most things myself. I consider that conservative. I also see a world where poor or unfortunate or sick need help and should be taken care of by taxes and donations. I consider that liberal. What am I?
 
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Flapdrol1337

Golden Member
May 21, 2014
1,677
93
91
I'm a minimalist. I work, save, and do most things myself. I consider that conservative. I also see a world where poor or unfortunate or sick need help and should be taken care of by taxes and donations. I consider that liberal. What am I?
You're a liberal. Current "conservative" politicians are the most irresponsible when it comes to financial policy, lowering taxes for the rich saying that'll lead to so much economic growth it'll increase tax income. Crazy.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,130
30,526
136
I'm a minimalist. I work, save, and do most things myself. I consider that conservative. I also see a world where poor or unfortunate or sick need help and should be taken care of by taxes and donations. I consider that liberal. What am I?
So, to you, liberals don't work, save or do most things themselves?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,130
30,526
136
...

The few who've made it to this point are prolly wondering what the point is, and how it relates to the title question. Well, the key bit to notice is I've been using the word democrat instead of liberal, because there's little doubt whether the enlightenment was better than the dark ages, but rather are american democrats really better than their counterparts.

...
Define "better." There are just as many useful idiots that vote Democrat as there are that vote Republican. There are plenty of Democrats that are awful people.
 
Reactions: agent00f

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,130
30,526
136
That's quite the aggressive response towards someone who said he believes in helping others.
I don't give a single fuck about being cordial anymore. The time for polite discussion passed long ago, and it never accomplished anything anyway. Polite discussion never helped you come to you senses. You had to arrive there on your own. Too bad it is too fucking late.

The dude just said that because I work, save and do things myself, I'm a conservative. That is flat-out retarded, but typical for "independents," "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" or whatever the fuck they like to call themselves now. They have no idea what it means to be liberal but think they know us so well. One liberal wants her Obamaphone? That means we all do. No liberal works. We are all welfare queens.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,574
7,671
136
I'm a minimalist. I work, save, and do most things myself. I consider that conservative. I also see a world where poor or unfortunate or sick need help and should be taken care of by taxes and donations. I consider that liberal. What am I?

You are who you are that the problem with labels once labeled your pigeon hold into ALL beliefs associated with that label. Which of course is not reality unless you are a republican
 

jmagg

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,099
403
126
I don't give a single *** about being cordial anymore. The time for polite discussion passed long ago, and it never accomplished anything anyway. Polite discussion never helped you come to you senses. You had to arrive there on your own. Too bad it is too fucking late.

A very tough keyboard commando fellow
 

jmagg

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,099
403
126
I'd suggest getting a part time job to supplement your entitlements..
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,130
30,526
136
I'd suggest getting a part time job to supplement your entitlements..
Hopefully the world economy doesn't recover in your lifetime or your children's. Hopefully you live close enough to the coastline that it gets swallowed by the sea.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Right now: generally, yes.

There are definitely problems with the capital-D Democrats right now, but they believe in some universally important values that many conservatives seem to have abandoned: that intelligence and experience are good things in government. That science matters. That telling the truth (most of the time, anyway) matters. That having basic compassion for those different or less fortunate than yourself matters. That you undermine the principles of democracy by gerrymandering and rigging voter ID laws.

At the moment, the dominant strain of American conservatism is... repugnant, frankly. It pretends that ignorance and inexperience make you an outsider who can change the system. It acts as if acknowledging scientific reality is an egregious sin (this is skewed by the fossil fuel industry bribing Republicans, mind you; they'll say anything for the money). It's perfectly fine that Trump and surrogates tell obvious lies every day, so long as they're not so outrageous that even supporters balk at them. And there's a definite "FYGM" attitude where anyone who isn't a white, straight, upper middle-class Christian man is basically a persona non grata, including at the voting booth.

There is a conservatism that's generally agreeable, even if I don't personally agree with it; it's just being shoved to the margins by the modern Republicans obsessed with greed, power and imposing a racially-tinged theocracy. The David Frums of the world who, even if they're wrong, clearly came to their positions through deep thought and with some kind of compassion for those beyond their own cultural background.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I don't give a single fuck about being cordial anymore. The time for polite discussion passed long ago, and it never accomplished anything anyway.

Ah... because legalized gay marriage came about due to physical violence by gays, women got the vote by burning everything down, etc...?

The point is that much can and has been achieved by consistent and rational discourse.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
There is a conservatism that's generally agreeable, even if I don't personally agree with it; it's just being shoved to the margins by the modern Republicans obsessed with greed, power and imposing a racially-tinged theocracy.

The Republican party has gone so far right that real conservatives now have more in common with Democrats than Republicans. I used to consider myself Republican, I was generally conservative. But Republicans abandoned anything resembling sane conservatism more than a decade ago. During J.W. Bush's Presidency it became obvious that even the few positive conservative planks still on their platform were all talk with no intention of acting on. So, more and more I started to identify as Independent. Then I started listening to the Democrats. I liked some of what some of them had to say. Some of it sounded more like the kind of conservatism I grew up believing in. Over time I began to see the logic behind some of their liberal ideas. I still consider myself an independent, but with the current Republican party I can't see myself voting for anyone other than a Democrat. The insanity that has become the Republican party must be opposed at all costs.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,018
629
126
Democrats aren't insane. We wouldn't be talking about defending nazis if there was a Democrat in office right now. so yes
 
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