Are gays born as gays?

[slunk]

Comparing rapists, burglars, or whatever to being homosexual is ludicrous. Scientists have been studying the DNA of gay people for a while now, and are almost positive that it is a genetic trait. I've read documentation and seen studies regarding this topic in some of my college courses. I happen to have a few friends who are gay too. Of course they prefer relationships with the same sex. That's what makes them homosexual. I know a couple of them hate being gay, but they really have no choice. And they do try. Another thing (kind of off-topic), if George W. Bush gets elected, this country will go to hell. Other than just being a pure idiot and caring about nothing more than money, he would never support anyhting regarding the protection of gays from attacks. That they provoke it is absurd. I know there is a small percentage in the population who choose to be gay rather than by being born with it, but all people are created equally and all should be guaranteed rights to their security and well-being.

collin

 

[~zonker~]

I don't think gays are born gay. I believe that experiences have a much greater role in forming human sexual tendancies.


"As a rule, the parents, too, are themselves stupid and ignorant; one fool trains [teaches] another, and as they have lived, so live their children after them." (Martin Luther)

 

[Spoooon]

Regardless of whether it's experiance or genes that causes homosexuality, it should be accepted in the modern world and not rejected. Homosexuality has been around for near ever, only recently (within the past 50 years or so) has it become something that has been talked about. The day we become more understanding of people that are different is the day that we all become better people.

 

[NFS4]

<< Comparing rapists, burglars, or whatever to being homosexual is ludicrous. >>


What's the difference? They're all acts that society looks down on in our society. It's just that homosexuality is not looked down upon nearly as bad.

*Clarification, I mean that they are all acts that IMHO are not predisposed before we are born*

 

[Russ]

<< Another thing (kind of off-topic), if George W. Bush gets elected, this country will go to hell >>



Yeah, right, slunk. I'm sure the country will go to hell because Bush isn't a gay rights activist. Are you even old enough to vote? Your entire statement sounds like it emanates from a mind that has not yet fully developed.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Russ]

<< What's the difference? They're all acts that society looks down on in our society. >>



NFS4,

The difference is that in the case of a homosexual, they potentially harm only themselves. The comparison between the horrible act of rape, and homosexuality is the epitomy of stupid, narrow and bigoted thinking.

Russ, NCNE

 

[NFS4]

I'm not comparing the &quot;act,&quot; Russ. I'm comparing the disposition of the act. I'm saying that people are not born gay. It is their environment. Just as no one is born a rapist or murder.

And of course, there are victims in cases of homosexuality. What about the families that find out that their child is gay. What guilt they must be feeling to think that it was maybe their fault that their child turned out this way. To have to live with that, and not be able to see things the same way ever again. If something like that were to happen to me, it would be all the same as if I had been &quot;raped&quot; of my feelings for my child and that a certain &quot;bond&quot; has been taken away from me.

If you were to find out that your child was gay, it wouldn't be &quot;Oh, you are OK. I'm fine with that, let's eat dinner.&quot; It's not that simple.

 

[abracadabra1]

yes. no doubt about it.

 

[Isla]

Russ

That is a great story. I have known men like that, too. You never would guess in a million years...

I've known a few conservative and a few flamboyant gays in my life. As people, I like them very much and just try not to think about that other stuff.

I'm all for tolerance, guys.

 

[Balt]

Well, I am taking my first biology course in college, the first section of which was Genetics. What little I learned about it is that homosexuality *CAN* be inherited, hence some people *ARE* born gay.
(or with at least a predispostion to be gay)

Here is an excerpt from my book:

&quot;Several times researchers have announced the identification of genes affecting behavior only to have to retract these claims when larger numbers of individuals have been studied. A recent study of homosexuality has tentatively identified a gene that predisposes men to homosexuality, and this study probably provides the best evidence to date for a specific gene that affects one aspect of human behavior.&quot;

It then goes on to explain a study that finds that in the general population, 2% of people identify themselves as homosexuals. But of these 2%, 13.5% also had a brother who was gay. 10% of their maternal uncles and 13% of their maternal cousins were also gay. So we have 13.5% v 2%, 10% v 2% and 13% v 2%.

And the MOST compelling evidence of all is that scientists have discovered a mutation on a particular gene of these people who have a homosexual family history (on their X chromosome).

Of course, the book mentions that genetics is not always the case, there &quot;are likely to be multiple causes (genetic and perhaps environmental) for homosexuality, but indicates that men carrying this gene are predisposed to be homosexuals.&quot;

If not for the actual detection of the mutation of one of the chromosomes, I might just chalk up that heightened percentages in families as people being more likely to admit they are homosexual merely because they have the support of another family member, but this is not always the case it seems.


Just to give credit to my instructor (who wrote this particular book), I'm going to cite the source I quoted (in a rather informal way ):

Bates, George. Genetics and Human Inheritance, 3rd ed.
McGraw-Hill, Inc. New York: 2000.

 

[Russ]

<< What about the families that find out that their child is gay. What guilt they must be feeling to think that it was maybe their fault that their child turned out this way. >>



Huh? Guilt? Fault? By your very statement you make the assumption that homosexuality is something to be ashamed of. Why? Because it is a lifestyle that you and I find repulsive? If a family feels guilty that there child is homosexual, than it is THEY who have the problem, not the child.

Russ, NCNE

 

[NFS4]

Let's say that you had a child that told you after 16 years that he or she was gay. How would YOU feel? And as I said, I'm going on the thought that homosexuality is not something that is inherited, but something that is brought on by environment.

 

[Mday]

it's hard to tell.

yes with a but, and no with a but.

so..

with any study that says one, another exists that says the other....

we just don't know.

aside from procreation, there is no reason that heterosexuality is any better than homosexuality...

 

[Yeeny]

What about the families that find out that their child is gay. What guilt they must be feeling to think that it was maybe their fault that their child turned out this way.

Speaking as a mother, as long as my children grow up to be good people who lead good lives then I am proud. Parents are supposed to love their children for who they are, not what they do sexually.

 

[NFS4]

Well, since you are mother you have experience in this area. None of us can really say for certain what or how we would feel if this were to happen to us first hand. Not me and not Russ.

 

[Isla]

GF

I'm with you all the way on that one. My only concern would be for their safety!

 

[Isla]

Red Dawn

You give me such hope for our fine country.

 

[Piano Man]

Gays are probably born &quot;gay&quot;. The reason I say probably is becuase know one truly knows. The only people only find out they are guy &quot;later&quot; is becuase they need to hit puberty first. As for NFS4's comment on environment, I couldn't DISagree more. When it comes to genetics, your environment after being born doesn't do crap. My personal friend grew up in the &quot;All American Family&quot;. This family was the epitome of apple pie. For him to be gay becuase of his &quot;environment&quot; is just mind numbing.



Now for a comment on Russ. I don't post often, but when I read his threads, I almost always disagree with the man due to his conservatism and my liberalism, but I must say he has been going at NFS4 for the right reasons. Why is homosexuality associated with rape and pedophilia? Ignorance. And as for shame being associated with being gay? Well my friend that I mentioned above wanted to kill himself after &quot;coming out of the closet.&quot; Why? Becuase he was 25, and the only reason he kept all of this pain to himself for so long was becuase his dad was the football star and his mom was the typical trophy wife. For him to be gay would completly blow the image of &quot;the american family&quot;. His dad didn't even accept the fact that he was gay FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR!!! No one should have to go through this crap. Once again, thank you Russ for your thoughtful opinion.

 

[Jazar]

NFS4,

What environmental factors contribute to make someone be gay?

 

[NFS4]

I'm talking about how/where they live, people they grow up with, things they see/do.

And again, I'm NOT COMPARING THE ACT TO RAPE OR MURDER. I'm just saying that people are saying that it is genetic and all I'm saying is that if that's the case, why haven't people found links or clues to say that acts such as these haven't been proven to be genetically caused.

Well, maybe my thought process is flawed but that's just the way I see the whole situation. I'm not trying to piss you people off, I'm just stating what I think.


<< What about us Fathers? You think we don't worry about our children as much? >>


If she had been male I would have said father. I don't see your point:Q

 

[Russ]

<< Let's say that you had a child that told you after 16 years that he or she was gay. How would YOU feel? >>



I would be disappointed, of course. But I certainly would NOT feel shame or guilt.



<< Well, since you are mother you have experience in this area. None of us can really say for certain what or how we would feel if this were to happen to us first hand. Not me and not Russ. >>



Really? Why is that?

Russ, NCNE

 

[NFS4]

I thought you didn't have kids? Anyway, what I meant was who are we to say either you or I would feel until it were to happen to us.

 

[Russ]

<< I thought you didn't have kids? >>



One should not make assumptions simply because not everyone chooses to discuss the intimate details of their life at an internet BBS.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Santa]

I belieave it could be something genetic. Even if it is not one I really belieave in the Darwinian ideas. If in the future homosexual genes or tendencys grow perhaps men will begin changing physically to evolve into child bearing bodies.. wouldn't that just take the cake! Remember it took a while for racisim to fade some for races to intermingle what if far off in the distant future fear of differnt sexual orientation fades and we begin changing.

Side note. Santa still enjoys Mrs Clause

<Edit> I do agree with NSF4 about the surroundings being a big factor and that it is a life choice. If you think about this.. People are not born to skip out on college and just go to work but some choose to not get a degree. Now granted some parents are disappointed (but like Russ said ashamed or feel at fault I would not be) but the choice is something they choose and will live with. Some of society shuns those who are not of the &quot;educated&quot; breed but I think it is just a lemming way of thinking at things. Feel how you want not how society feels.

 

[JellyBaby]

Interesting thread. I had thought homosexuality was entirely brought on by one?s environment and in the cases of adults, a lifestyle choice. But this thread contains some tid bits which lead me to believe genes are the ?culprit?.

I?m sure it?s possible to be born gay. It?s also possible to be born with a predisposition to become gay at some point. It?s even possible to be born with ?standard? genes and later on in life choose to become homosexual though I?d assume this is less likely.

I used to work with one gay fellow, those he was not ?flamingly? gay. Got along well with him but I will admit I was somewhat uncomfortable around him. Personally I feel it?s a non-standard lifestyle and I don?t agree it?s the best route for most of us ? after all, we do need to procreate! But acceptance and tolerance of homosexuality should be possible. Though every time I see a ?gay rights? parade in CA I wonder?