are Modern Europeans really the same race as Old Europeans?

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Puppies04

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2011
5,909
17
76
Serious contender for dumbest thread of 2013. Seriously dude turn off your brain.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
Anarchist's threads blow my mind more than Spaceman's. Therefore Anarchist is the new Spaceman. Sorry Spaceman. Your weirdness will not be forgotten.

Now for some solid history. I'll pick apart this little tidbit from his rant. Hunter gathers are non-violent. Partially correct but very misleading. Through early human history, hunter gathering tribes most likely rarely engaged in conflict with other tribes. This is mainly due to the fact that they rarely encountered other humans at all outside of their own community. There are still groups that live like this deep in the Amazon, for example.

You take a city the size of Chicago. The entire human population prior to agriculture was around this size, spread out around the globe. However, this didn't mean there were no internal conflicts that led to violence. You can see this by observing other great apes. Particularly our closest living relative, the chimpanzee. They often come to blows, primarily over mating. The first man to bludgeon another man with a rock was most definitely fighting over a woman. Alpha males are naturally the ones who get to breed first, and there are always beta males that will fight the alpha over that title.

Now when agriculture first arose, it was a more difficult life than hunting and gathering. Instead of just eating what you found, you now had to work to grow and nurture your food supply. Which may have actually shortened life expectancy. However, agriculture offers a more consistent food supply. Which in turn leads to surplus. With a surplus, this frees up members of the community to work on things that aren't related to food production. War evolves because now humans have finite territory which they must defend, and eventually acquire more to sustain a growing population.

Now, nomadic hunter-gatherers aren't stupid either. They see the agricultural communities have resources they can use. When your most advanced technology is a pointy stick, sacking a village to steal bows, livestock (horses especially), pottery, and food is mighty tempting. Because nomadic tribes are decentralized, it can be very difficult to fight against them. Especially when groups of tribes unify towards a single goal. In fact, one of the greatest empires the world has ever seen, was the Mongols. It largely spread militantly, defeating two of the most technologically advanced societies of the era: Islam and China.
They then used their conquered states established economies to maintain their empire.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
anyway, i conclude that Modern European women's ancestors (those with mtDNA haplogroups HV, JT, and N) were out of africa while the Old Europeans and their mtdna haplogroup UK were never found in sub-saharan africa and that what is referred to as the human race is not all the same species.

i don't think there's any argument that the human species is not all the same race. we all came out of modern day Ethiopia, just in different waves due to changing land passages through the Middle East during the ice age.
 

Eureka

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
3,822
1
81
Holy crap. For a second I thought this was going to be a cogent thread about genetics and genetic drift.

And then I read the OP.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
Now for some solid history. I'll pick apart this little tidbit from his rant. Hunter gathers are non-violent. Partially correct but very misleading. Through early human history, hunter gathering tribes most likely rarely engaged in conflict with other tribes. This is mainly due to the fact that they rarely encountered other humans at all outside of their own community. There are still groups that live like this deep in the Amazon, for example. You take a city the size of Chicago. The entire human population prior to agriculture was around this size, spread out around the globe. However, this didn't mean there were no internal conflicts that led to violence. You can see this by observing other great apes. Particularly our closest living relative, the chimpanzee. They often come to blows, primarily over mating. The first man to bludgeon another man with a rock was most definitely fighting over a woman. Alpha males are naturally the ones who get to breed first, and there are always beta males that will fight the alpha over that title. Now when agriculture first arose, it was a more difficult life than hunting and gathering. Instead of just eating what you found, you now had to work to grow and nurture your food supply. Which may have actually shortened life expectancy. However, agriculture offers a more consistent food supply. Which in turn leads to surplus. With a surplus, this frees up members of the community to work on things that aren't related to food production. War evolves because now humans have finite territory which they must defend, and eventually acquire more to sustain a growing population. Now, nomadic hunter-gatherers aren't stupid either. They see the agricultural communities have resources they can use. When your most advanced technology is a pointy stick, sacking a village to steal bows, livestock (horses especially), pottery, and food is mighty tempting. Because nomadic tribes are decentralized, it can be very difficult to fight against them. Especially when groups of tribes unify towards a single goal. In fact, one of the greatest empires the world has ever seen, was the Mongols. It largely spread militantly, defeating two of the most technologically advanced societies of the era: Islam and China. They then used their conquered states established economies to maintain their empire.
thank you i think it was because the hunter gatherers of Old Europe are not the same species as Modern Europeans. Modern Europeans were usually attacking each other even when there was no guarantee that theyd gain from it.

then groups like the ancient basques are recorded as being matriarchal and they were probably one of the peoples' indigenous to Europe... i just think it has to do with biology rather than culture, because biology influences everything except whatever it was that created life and/or combined to become a living organism... without life, you cant have culture.

also, remember the Picts? they are no longer existing as a 100% unified group, but they were pretty far up north to have come from as far below the equator as subsaharan africa... they were a matriarchal culture, and they were able to maintain that likely because they were a biologically unified group.

on the other hand, there are groups with constant internal fighting and they tend to be patriarchal and paternalistic. im not a zionist or anything, but ashkenazim and arabs cant have the same maternal origin as each other; we know that the arabs fight everyone (they go into europe and rape the women there and they fight themselves in their homeland) and have contributed less to the world, while 1/3 of the ashkenazim have their roots in matriarchial Old Europe, and are much less likely to fight each other... they do sometimes but it is much, much less than arab vs arab violence. the same thing was true with the white south africans... they never fought each other because they were all dutch and huguenot cousins of each other and the huguenots are from southern france which was largely isolated from the rest of the world until the French Revolution.

that said, im just not buying into macroevolution. i think micro-evolution happens to a small degree over time, but i just think the human race is divided into two species like i said before.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
Well to begin the generally agreed upon definition of species is groups that can breed with one another. Unless you're arguing that europeans can't breed with arabs, or could not conceivably breed with a european from 20,000 years ago, then your entire argument is wrong on its face.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,852
6
81
the Old Europeans didnt fight each other

Ahahahahah where do you come up with this stuff? The old Europeans fought each other constantly. Each country in Europe right now is based off of an old empire which was formed by fighting. Before that, tribes fought with other tribes. Mankind has been fighting each other since we were formed.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,300
5,729
136
Alpha males are naturally the ones who get to breed first, and there are always beta males that will fight the alpha over that title.

so you mean to say that by studying alky, we are studying the heritage of our species?
 
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